400 HP - 600 HP UPGRADE Turbocharger LM440 IS38 LM500 LM575 Hybrid

CupraRacer

Active Member
Dec 23, 2018
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Hi Cupra Guys, I have installed and tested lots of IS38 upgrade turbochargers for Seat Leon MK3 Cupra (280 / 300 Year 2014 - 2020):
Here some experiences:



Back in 2017 I had the bigger PNP LM500 Gen.2 with 502 HP / 612 NM also with great MTR Software:


In October 2018 I installed the PNP LM6XX in the Cupra with fantastic !!! TVS Engineering !!! software.
After 670 NM Torque the DSG STOCK clutch started slipping so we limited it to 650 NM Torque and everything has worked fine so far. The Cupra can make more than 600HP with this very stable and highly MODERN turbo. In January 2019 a TVS racing clutch will seemingly be installed to enable ca. 750NM Torque. The car and the engine look fully stock because I prefer original appearance everywhere. Here the fresh video.


The story will probably go on - testing the limits of Cupra EA888 Gen.3 MQB:)
 
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_Dejan_

Active Member
Mar 20, 2018
132
61
Do I understand right you are running PNP LM6XX on stock engine(stock piston, rods, valves...) and running around 600HP and 650Nm?
Are you planning running 750Nm also on stock engine? Im not sure if internals can handle that torque :) Its not HP which kill engines but torque kill them...
How is PNP LM6XX driveable as daly car? Did you have TTE525 or TTE535 on your car? In future I will also look for turbo upgrade for my Cupra, but because 95% of time I drive slow I would like to use turbo which spool similar to OEM but produce around 500HP and safe torque for stock engine&DSG&4DRIVE...
 
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CupraRacer

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Dec 23, 2018
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Do I understand right you are running PNP LM6XX on stock engine(stock piston, rods, valves...) and running around 600HP and 650Nm?
Are you planning running 750Nm also on stock engine? Im not sure if internals can handle that torque :) Its not HP which kill engines but torque kill them...
How is PNP LM6XX driveable as daly car? Did you have TTE525 or TTE535 on your car? In future I will also look for turbo upgrade for my Cupra, but because 95% of time I drive slow I would like to use turbo which spool similar to OEM but produce around 500HP and safe torque for stock engine&DSG&4DRIVE...
Hi Dejan, thanks for your professional answer. You are fully right. Torque kills an engine.
The CJX (EA888 Gen.2 2.0 TSI in Golf MK7, etc.) can be killed by Torque more than 620 NM.
I drove with PNP LM500 with 502HP and 607 NM for 40.000km and when we increased Torque to 625 NM one piston immediately!!! crashed after some km full throttle at 300 km/h on German highway. So I got forged pistons and IE rods installed and the car runs great again.
I know the TTH480, TTE525, 470 and newer 535 very well. MTR Performance seems to be the only guy who can adjust them properly and tune them powerfully because he is an expert. The TTH/TTE and others normally seem to still keep and reuse the stock IHI bearing/basic unit which everyone knows is weak (turbine shaft crashes, etc.) already blowing on lots of normally tuned IS38 (See the whole internet forums worldwide of Golf MK7, Cupra MK3, Audi S3 8V/TTS,etc. SEE PICTURE 1). I have seen lots of charger blow on the dyno or at the second launch control action. This is really sad and expensive because you do not get your money back. Always because of the reused stock bearing which most of the turbo builder just keep and reuse because the turbo builders want to save money and increase profit. BUT: You cannot trust the stock IHI bearing/basic unit and turbo internals - So all LM chargers (also the smallest LM440) by Ladermanufaktur PNP Turbo have kicked the complete stock basic unit out and replace it fully by the TD05+ basic unit by Mitsubishi and developed it further (so the '+' in the name) and it has seemed indestructible for 7 years in extreme worldwide racing. Some younger drivers like to save about 400 bucks and buy hybrids with stock basic units where just the wheels are bigger and/or the basic unit is a Chinese copy and their whole money is gone after a few months/weeks. Young driver should INVEST in Quality guiding them for decades - Older drivers have learned this very useful lesson:)
LM chargers are famouslighter, for their extremely early turbo spooling (LM440 and LM500). Even the LM6XX starts very early. It starts pushing from 1500rpm and there is no real kick but you feel that at 3300 there is even more boost gradual. So all LM chargers do not know a turbo lag or turbo hole because they have OptiRateTechnology where both wheels are newly designed and therefore much more efficient, bigger and HiFlow playing together very well because LM has the technical equipment to calculate characteristic maps of IS20/IS38 housings, wheels sizes, mass airflow, etc. to make daily driving so wonderful. I had lots of TDI diesel engines in the past and licked early boost and that is why I personally prefer LM chargers - they are so much the same. And if one LM chargers blows, whch has not happened since the release in 2016, you will get a new one for free. But you will not manage to kill it because of the above mentioned technical advantages. That is why I have sticked to LM chargers and will possibly do for the next one or two years because their charges are technically advanced and their development is about 1,5 - 2 years ahead as far as I can observe and assess it from my daily driving in my Cupra Year 2014 and racing on German Autobahn A2 and A1.
Just my personal view on the IS38 / IS20 matter:
When driving fully stable and reliable
- 430 HP - Install the LM440 IS20 - This is my FAVOURITE Charger - It goes like crazy.
- 460 HP: Install the LM440 IS38 - Spool is 300 rpm later because housing is bigger but gives +30HP therefore.
- 500 HP: Instal, the LM500 IS38 - which is the best running product so far: Extremely early turbo starting + Broad torque (2700 - 7200 rpm constant increase - so powerful - see all dynograms)
- 550-620 HP: the LM6XX - Check how incredibly early boost starts in the videos given above

All in all, lots of drivers have the LM500 on stock engine with 500 HP - This chargers wants to make more power easily - But ask your personal tuner first regarding required hardware. When driving 95% normally slow like you and me, this is a peprfectly comfortable choice. Expensive 911 Porsche have no chance competing anymore and after beating them you will see them selling their Porsches at Ebay's the next day.
Dropping some lines just to inform and maybe give orientation.

VIDEO of IS38 attached for technical advice:
This is an original IS38 (New revision produced on 18 th April 2018 - see stamp) Stock basic unit but tuned after 2000km. It blew on the dyno at 1.6 bar boost pressure because of weak IHI basic unit. Lots of older and newer! blow when tuned. Question: How can you use the poor stock basic unit to make a big 450+ HP hybrid of it expecting it to be stable ???
Invest in stability, endurance and reliabilty as a life-time principle. Consequently I have installed the PNP LM Upgradecharger with TD05+ basic unit + HiFlow compressor wheel for broad performance + highly efficient exhaust wheel (OptiRateTechnology) for very early turbo spooling.


This is a new ORIGINAL IS20 (smaller brother of IS38 - lateral cut). Assess the stock bearing/basicunit. It is good for stock software but can cause severe problems when tuned.

IHI_IS20_Golf7GTI_MQB_VAG.jpg
 
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Janusz

Active Member
Oct 4, 2018
137
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Awesome sum up. Thanks.
I am now running 410ps/510NM on stock turbo, with DP, non-restricted cat back exhaust, IC, TIP and modded instake box.
Mine is a manual, so far clutch was reinforced and holds rock solid.

I was thinking on trying either:
- 430 HP - Install the LM440 IS20 - This is my FAVOURITE Charger - It goes like crazy.
- 460 HP: Install the LM440 IS38 - Spool is 300 rpm later because housing is bigger but gives +30HP therefore.
- 500 HP: Instal, the LM500 IS38 - which is the best running product so far: Extremely early turbo starting + Broad torque (2700 - 7200 rpm constant increase - so powerful - see all dynograms)

Is my set up aside the turbo sufficient to take this or I also need the fuel pump enhancement so it delivers enough fuel?
I am trying to find the best money/power option :)

Do you know out of experience how much can a manual stand?
Here in PL they can build a hybrid turbo usuing the original one and that should stand up to 450km. However I am a bit negative towards that due to weakness of the factory mounted charger.
The german ones look much more reliable.
Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.
 
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CupraRacer

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Dec 23, 2018
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Awesome sum up. Thanks.
I am now running 410ps/510NM on stock turbo, with DP, non-restricted cat back exhaust, IC, TIP and modded instake box.
Mine is a manual, so far clutch was reinforced and holds rock solid.

I was thinking on trying either:
- 430 HP - Install the LM440 IS20 - This is my FAVOURITE Charger - It goes like crazy.
- 460 HP: Install the LM440 IS38 - Spool is 300 rpm later because housing is bigger but gives +30HP therefore.
- 500 HP: Instal, the LM500 IS38 - which is the best running product so far: Extremely early turbo starting + Broad torque (2700 - 7200 rpm constant increase - so powerful - see all dynograms)

Is my set up aside the turbo sufficient to take this or I also need the fuel pump enhancement so it delivers enough fuel?
I am trying to find the best money/power option :)

Do you know out of experience how much can a manual stand?
Here in PL they can build a hybrid turbo usuing the original one and that should stand up to 450km. However I am a bit negative towards that due to weakness of the factory mounted charger.
The german ones look much more reliable.
Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.
Hi Janusz, Your hardware setup is very intelligently chosen. Very nice job !!!
I personally prefer a good filtering cat so that the people driving after you have good and clean air. So the car in the videos has always had nice catalyzers. If you drive without cat the performance will be bigger:)
No Autotech upgrade fuel pump is needed in Europe up to 520 HP from my experiences. I drove without it 502 HP without problems. The original stock Hitachi HPFP is strong and provides stable 210 bar at least. But you can buy it if you like.
Stock clutch (manual) holds 500 NM Torque (I have seen this several times, one Cupra even with 513 NM tuned by MTR - GREAT TUNER so far). Reinforced Sachs and some others manual clutes hold 650 NM, which is really great.
Your car seems to be powerful and well equipped.
What about the PNP LM500 Rev.2 - you can give it 500 HP easily. It is the best running product so far. See video attached recorded on Autobahn A2 in Autumn 2018:


 
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Janusz

Active Member
Oct 4, 2018
137
43
This is incredibly fast :)
I saw some tunes with lm440 going up to 470-480ps.
I would love lm500 but my manual fwd is poor base for power ranges of 500+
If i had golf r dsg or cupra st with 4x4 dsg I would definitely invest in it and keep way opened to 500+ ranges.
Anyway I need to think about it as spring is coming :)
And my michelin cups are smiling to me ;)
 

Deleted member 103408

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Fwd is fine with 500 hp you will need a mount kit. i use my revo stage 3 as a daily drive and track car and very happy with it.

but it is a car you have to drive.
 
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_Dejan_

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Mar 20, 2018
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@CupraRacer thanks for all informations and videos(Im already seen them on youtube) ... Currently I like car but it has a lot of less power/torque than my previous car(Audi TT 2.0 TFSI with 340HP/460Nm) and missing that ... I had on my TT remaped DSG and Im not shure if I want on Cupra remap it to because changing gears has not be smoth as before DSG remap mostly difference has been in slow/partial acceleration... Probably this is part of DSG remap(higher clutch pressure - to avoid clutch slipping) and all Stage 3 remaps need also DSG remap...
Running some turbo like PNP LM500 with producing around 500HP+ & 550-570Nm would be perfect for me... Did you do some dyno with different turbos on your car? If they can combine you dyno graph stock/LM440/LM500/LM600 on same graph it will be awesome to see all differences... Only dyno graph with their turbo(without stock) do not show anything useful...
Did you buy new unit or did you use their exchange option? Do you maybe know how their exchange option work? Is maybe possible pay full price and when turbo is changed on car then old IS38 can be send to them and they refund difference? Because sending IS38 before mean that car is not driveable for few weeks...
Because Stage 3 mods need some other modifications(Intake, intercooler) I need to wait few years before I will go that route... Swaping turbo is not problem and is not visible modification but intake is and in our country need to go trough TUV certification(A lot of papers and troubles because car is on lease)...
 

CupraRacer

Active Member
Dec 23, 2018
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Hi, you dio not need new intale for 500 HP - just use stock ar box and remove the snow grate inside. I have also uses that with 500++ HP so far. So your whole engine looks STOCK.
They send you an LM500 in advance, you install it and afterwards you send them your old charger (only 2449,00 all in all). No extry costs, etc. So you can immediately use your car again. No waiting days - Great offer!
 
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Janusz

Active Member
Oct 4, 2018
137
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Fwd is fine with 500 hp you will need a mount kit. i use my revo stage 3 as a daily drive and track car and very happy with it.

but it is a car you have to drive.
I had a ride ride with 460hp one today and seems still quite civilized :)
I guess the torqure build up along the rpm line line is something that is crucial to be able to control 500hp fwd and avoid burning a set of tires every month :)
Do you have any dyno graph of yours ?
You use cupra more or less as I do so something similar should do the job for me.
 
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Deleted member 103408

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No dyno graph I am afraid just the faces of other drivers on the road / track as I say good bye.

In comfort mode she is a very civilized and comfy daily driver, switch to Cupra and the Exhaust comes alive and the engine wants to be used.
I have a DSG Map as well but for the Track I run in Manual mode and enjoy the power and sound (even with helmet on).

Fuel economy for daily drive high 30's is no problem on the track best fun so far got me 11mpg on 99Ron. I am planning to go to Spa Francorchamps in Belgium and hopefully try her out with 102 to see if there is any difference.

Power delivery on this map is very smooth, they have increased the Max rev limit but at the same time put in heat and cold temp controls so you dont get full power when you start the car or if she is very hot. They have also taken kickdown out of Manual so its full manual and she only drops into First when the car stops.

Re Turbo exchange works in the same way, they dont do the install till the new turbo has arrived and then its a straight swap.

There are lots of people doing this now with more aggresive maps but I am more than happy with the Revo one.

Update and I should point out I blew a DSG Box, very unusual but these things do happen when pushing the power.

Just seen this, Revo dyno

Screenshot 2018-12-27 at 12.37.49.png
 
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LouG

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Dec 1, 2017
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Nelson, New Zealand
No dyno graph I am afraid just the faces of other drivers on the road / track as I say good bye.

In comfort mode she is a very civilized and comfy daily driver, switch to Cupra and the Exhaust comes alive and the engine wants to be used.
I have a DSG Map as well but for the Track I run in Manual mode and enjoy the power and sound (even with helmet on).

Fuel economy for daily drive high 30's is no problem on the track best fun so far got me 11mpg on 99Ron. I am planning to go to Spa Francorchamps in Belgium and hopefully try her out with 102 to see if there is any difference.

Power delivery on this map is very smooth, they have increased the Max rev limit but at the same time put in heat and cold temp controls so you dont get full power when you start the car or if she is very hot. They have also taken kickdown out of Manual so its full manual and she only drops into First when the car stops.

Re Turbo exchange works in the same way, they dont do the install till the new turbo has arrived and then its a straight swap.

There are lots of people doing this now with more aggresive maps but I am more than happy with the Revo one.

Update and I should point out I blew a DSG Box, very unusual but these things do happen when pushing the power.

Just seen this, Revo dyno

View attachment 3532

That's a vicious initial torque curve. It must make your tyre guys very happy:cheers:
 

Deleted member 103408

Guest
along with the oil, service, petrol and insurance guy BUT its worth it :)
 

Deleted member 103408

Guest
Every 5K although as I am doing more track work this year i may do it a little bit more often.

I will also change the DSG Oil more often but dont need that just yet.
 

_Dejan_

Active Member
Mar 20, 2018
132
61
I have another questions. I have HJS downpipe with sport cat, JE Design exhaust and need to know what else I will need to buy...
-What is minimum modifications requirements to run for example PNP LM500 turbo?
-I will modify stock intake so no need change it to R600...
-Is intercooler must have? Or can run without it but for example limited power/torque(For example 450HP)?
-Is DSG remap must have? If possible I would like avoid change DSG map, because I like how current software work... If there is way to leave Drive mode as it is(same clamp pressure, same shifting points...) and in Sport&Manual(Increase clamp pressure ...)... Because on TT MK2 I hade remaped DSG and Im lose smoth gear change in Drive mode...
- Anything else(Afcourse I need ECU remap) need to run this turbo?
 

Deleted member 103408

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_Dejan may I ask why you dont want to do all the mods, it is because your car is a Lease and you want it to look as stock as possible.

To start with I am no expert on this subject i suspect that @CupraRacer is better placed to answer this but in my opinion.

With regards to minimum I would want to replace with better piping between Air Box and Turbo plus, Elbow, Turbo Muffler Delete as a minimum to get the best air flow.

DSG on this sort of upgrade I would want one but if you are getting a custom map then you tell the guys what you are after.
All I can say is on mine in normal mode the change is smooth and very comfy, in Cupra it holds the gears using the extended rev range so is can seem violent but on the track I now only use manual mode as that way i change when I want but the clutch packs are normal ones and seem to work fine with the power. You can get upgraded clutch packs but I would imagine this is for bigger power.

Intercooler, I have always been told yes you should have it but @AndrewJB had a big Stage 2 running stock intercooler with no issues but i have certainly seen better temps since fitting a new one.

Other things to consider - Upgraded Engine Mounts, Dog Bone Mount and Tyres (to keep power on the road) Spark Plugs, Oil and brake pads also the Audi Air cooler for the brakes I certainly feel that keeps the temps down.
 

_Dejan_

Active Member
Mar 20, 2018
132
61
@theoldboy Im not from UK and in our country every change on car must go trough homologation (TUV certification) ... If police officer stop me he can send me to inspection... If there is visible modification and is not written in car modifications they take license plates, give 400€ ticket and modifications must be removed or approved... Because car is on lease, leasing company must give also approval and there is problem because they don't like modifications... I know because I have problems with exhaust(HJS Downpipe + JE Design exhaust), but allow me to change it because I have been very unhappy with car because there is not any exhaust note when drive in Cupra mode like on other cars which have valved exhaust... And going over this for intake or other visible modifications will be big nightmare :)

I know that I will not put "Upgraded Engine Mounts" I have them on previous car and noise/vibrations on car has increase a lot... I use only good tyres. On sumer I use tyres which come with car(Continental) and now also CONTINENTAL WINTERCONTACT TS850P which is good tyre. Also I have 4DRIVE so puting power on road is not problem :) Brakes(I have Performance Pack with 370mm Brembo brakes) are ok for my driving style :) I never have been on track with previous or this car and Im not sure if I will go...
 
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Deleted member 103408

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Sorry i forgot that there are lots of different rules across Europe, its much easier to mod in the UK I am pleased to say.

That does limit you, i have to say my engine mounts are very good they stop a lot of the movement but i have been pleasantly surprised by the lack of NVH But again this would be an obvious modification so you cant do that.
 
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