Audi A4 2.5 TDi Quattro Sport Avant

[Jamin Berry]

Hi guys!

Im thinking of buying one. What are the possibilities with tuning this engine? Or should i save my money and get one with a 1.9/2.0 tdi unit?

Need to know asap!

Benjamin

 

[devonmikeyboy]

Keep your money and get a 1.9 or better still a 2.0 PD140 engine mate if you want to tune it. Don`t get the 2.0 PD 170 engine though.

 

[shadowmaker]

Those VP44 fuel pumps in 2.5TDI V6 are pain in the ... Every single one is going to break between 120-200tkm. Fourtunately it's not that expensive to repair if you know what you are doing. It is also bit expensive to maintain and it has bigger fuel consumption than 1,9TDI. Camshafts have wear problems too.

Positive is that you get 205-210hp with programming only (both 150 and 180hp versions) and you can get quite easily 250-270hp out of it with bigger turbo and nozzles (with plain pump diesel). Auto transmission will not take more than 450-500Nm so better seek for manual if you want serious power to it.

 

[timbotdi]

I'm toying with the idea of a 4WD 3.0 V6 TDI A4 for my next car... They seem to make alot more power than the 2.5s, but are a lot harder to come by. Am I right in assuming the 3.0 in highly tuned spec could hit 400BHP without NOS / Propane? It runs 225BHP & 370lb/ft as standard.

Mikey, why do you warn people off the PD170 as opposed to PD140?

Cheers,

T

 

[golisago]

Quote>Mikey, why do you warn people off the PD170 as opposed to PD140?

Because its a pain getting around the particulor filter thats on this car/motor which blocks up if you increase the power out put because more soot is produced.

But it can be done wink.

 

[P-torque.co.uk]

Hi guys!

Im thinking of buying one. What are the possibilities with tuning this engine? Or should i save my money and get one with a 1.9/2.0 tdi unit?

Need to know asap!

Benjamin

Hi There

As mentioned above tuning is limited due to the fuel pumps on 2001 onwards models.

Both 1.9 and 2.0 TDI models are very tunable, with great results

 

[warren_cox]

My boss had an A4 TDi 2.5 (53 plate). He was really disappointed with it and now has a 2.0TDi which he says is much better. Said the 2.5 felt lazy rather than torquey. If you can't stretch to the 3.0TDi go for the 1.9/2.0TDi.

 

[Jamin Berry]

Thanks so much for the help. Ive bookmarked Allard Motor Sport website, hehe.

Now that ive cancelled the 2.5 off the list, it may well be a mk5 golf gt tdi 4motion that has the pd140 engine in it.

The 3.0 v6 tdi quattros are far too expensive at the moment, being around the £22k mark. I could buy nice bmw m3 for that. Id like an audi though(EDIT: compared to the VW), as the girls love them. I just cant find an a3 tdi quattro (same shape as coxw's above), let alone one with 4 doors.

Thanks for the replys guys, you have saved me 15k on a poop car!

 

[devonmikeyboy]

I looked at a Golf 4motion before i got my Audi. I thought it was very bland looking inside and out and the build quility was no where near the Audi.

 

[timbotdi]

What was the price difference between the Golf and the Audi?

Hadn't realised they did non-R32 4 Motion Mk5 Golfs...

T

 

[kris_tdi]

i actually own an a4 2.5 tdi aswell:

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YgCk... rs4 on my a4 pic2.jpg?dc=4675552705091417085

have to say my standard 1.9 tdi 130 ibiza is just as quick (apart from at higher speed) than my chipped a4.

All this about the fuel pump is a load of c r a p, mine has done 161k miles and is running perfectly.

Still returns mid 40's on a run and mid 30's round town.

Its a great car and with the filter etc.. you can really notice the V6 noise.

Kris

 

[tommyt2]

Those VP44 fuel pumps in 2.5TDI V6 are pain in the ... Every single one is going to break between 120-200tkm. Fourtunately it's not that expensive to repair if you know what you are doing. It is also bit expensive to maintain and it has bigger fuel consumption than 1,9TDI. Camshafts have wear problems too.

Positive is that you get 205-210hp with programming only (both 150 and 180hp versions) and you can get quite easily 250-270hp out of it with bigger turbo and nozzles (with plain pump diesel). Auto transmission will not take more than 450-500Nm so better seek for manual if you want serious power to it.

hi my first post on here but could you tell me who i can get to do the work that you are talking about to my 2.5 tdi v6 180 bhp its 2002.Have been told its out to the maximum now at 204 bhp and 330lbs/ft torque.Is your car the b5 or b6 your signiture says you have alot of power???

 

[techie]

I have changed no end of VP44 pumps (have worked for Audi and Skoda who use this engine), they really dont like running dry or having petrol through them. Other than that the control unit quite often gives up communicating with the engine ECU and just shuts down.

The 3.0 is quite a different animal to the 2.5. Running PD type injectors and a high pressure pump, also they are chain driven at the back of the engine rather than a cambelt at the front.

 

[tommyt2]

Thanks for the info techie, sounds like you know these quite well.I have remapped this car about 5 times with turbo tech as the first time i wasnt so impressed, and now im resonably happy but was expecting alot more.I used to own a pd 130 golf a 115 and a 150 and they were alot more responsive to the dimsport software.I know this engine is not a pd but really for the capacity it is it should be more than happy with an additional 50 bhp.I spoke to a company called torque tronix in northern ireland who told me they used to own a 2.5 a4 and the problem with them is the pump can not flow enough diesel to make big power, and that he could try adjusting the slider on the pump manually but at 1200 pounds a pump if it goes wrong isnt cheap .The a4 they had with different nozzles and a hybrid turbo made 230 bhp. But the guy told me if i had the b5 2.5 they could work it to around 300 bhp.He does sound like he knows this stuff inside out plus he prepares cars and engines for vw motorsport uk.

 

[shadowmaker]

Tommy,

My signature is for 2.5TDI 5cyl inline on VW T4 Transporter. I just happen to keep my ears open when it comes to diesel power.

There are many variations for VP44 and the pump unit can be made bigger. Here in Finland is a company which has done this. Also there are big injectors available for this engine so it's just up to get air in it. Custom cams + grinded head and some nice vnt would do this. Cost will be high and who's to know how much it can take...

1.9TDI is cheap to get over 250bhp as will hopefully happen on tomorrow with my friends -99 Golf. Engine construction follows my experiences on my engine and hopefully we can transform it to the "small block" too. Although it uses "lame" Evo1-version head (I'm using Evo2), it will probably hold boost much better on rollers and make some good numbers. They did also 6sp conversion with diff lock to it too, so we are looking for good 1/4-mile times later. It just happens that summer hasn't arrived yet.

Like techie said, the electric part of the VP44 is very likely to broke and I have witnessed many to do so. Dealer organizations are keen to replace it with new ones (some 2000e + work here), but it can usually get fixed just by replacing the electrical unit in it (some 300e + work).

 

[basstard]

So you do want to change to vnt shadowmaker?? that'll be a bit of work but it'll be possible if you changed the ecu [some here theorized in the past that it could be done without changing it,,, ]

now, v6 and turbo only make me think about something,,,

I guess that using the ecu signal to operate 2 N75's at once must not be that difficult as long as you can provide the valves a decent voltage/current to operate [maybe using a relay],,, then you would need to re-design the vacuum circuit but I guess that can be done too [maybe you can place a T joint where the N75 connects and then connect two of em,,,]

to this point you put say a vnt17 every 3 cylinders,,,

am I talking BS here or you do reckon it can be done?

 

[golisago]

So you do want to change to vnt shadowmaker?? that'll be a bit of work but it'll be possible if you changed the ecu [some here theorized in the past that it could be done without changing it,,, ]

now, v6 and turbo only make me think about something,,,

I guess that using the ecu signal to operate 2 N75's at once must not be that difficult as long as you can provide the valves a decent voltage/current to operate [maybe using a relay],,, then you would need to re-design the vacuum circuit but I guess that can be done too [maybe you can place a T joint where the N75 connects and then connect two of em,,,]

to this point you put say a vnt17 every 3 cylinders,,,

am I talking BS here or you do reckon it can be done?

Aligator over at tdiclub (no plug intended) can change waste-gate to vnt setup and vise versa with out having to change ecu's....you only have to change out some hardware to which ever turbo setup you want to run.

 

[basstard]

with hardware you mean hardware in the ecu? or what? [sorry, english ain't my first language you know,,,]

 

[shadowmaker]

I already have vnt (of course ), but my control is currently with boost only. It works fine with low range and with max power, but driving at 130kmh it makes too much boost (about 1,0bar) and that's not good for the turbo. I don't know how, but Mika (my programmer) is going to attach vnt controlling to my old ECU. Maybe then boost level will stay at 2,0bar on rollers too and I can show you a paper of what my baby can do...

Oh well, it works fine for 1/4-mile with the current setup, so to get dyno prove is not that important.

 

[basstard]

what do you mean with "boost control only"?

and do you think something like the twin turbo seyup I thought of can be done?