Choice of Tyres

[SRGTD]

I don’t find it irrational for tyre reviews to have entirely different outcomes, because they are conducted on different cars, outside temperatures and road conditions, which can make a huge difference.

The reviews that really matter, are the ones on your specific car. I don’t care what any reviewer says. I am driving the darn thing and I can tell for sure that on the Formentor the Turanzas have underwhelming grip and road feedback and they hop like crazy when i apply too much throttle.

I don’t have a Formentor, but I found the same with the Turanzas VW fitted to my 2020 Polo GTI+ from the factory when it was new. I’m in the UK and based on forum member feedback on a VW forum, other UK owners of the same make / model of car on 18” alloys also had Turanzas on their cars, so it seems this was VW’s tyre of choice at the time.

Like you, I too found I experienced wheel hop and tramping; happened fairly regularly when pulling away on virtually dry roads in UK autumn temperatures. And that’s with applying very little throttle as I’m quite a sedate driver these days (mature, retired). I put up with them for just under three months and then got some Michelin PS4 tyres fitted and haven’t had any issues since.

It’s interesting that VW are now fitting performance rather than touring tyres to UK spec Polo GTI’s with 18” alloys; Continental Sport Contact rather than Bridgestone Turanzas.

 

[pkaps]

I drive the vz 310 and I can tell you they are sporty for everyday use as are the Primacys. . Primacys may be a bit better but that doesn't change anything. As for the M2, you are comparing two totally different cars, so not to be mentioned.

 

[Lip]

I drive the vz 310 and I can tell you they are sporty for everyday use as are the Primacys. . Primacys may be a bit better but that doesn't change anything. As for the M2, you are comparing two totally different cars, so not to be mentioned.

The obvious question that arises is: Have you ever tried proper performance tyres? Like the SportContacts, Potenzas, P Zeros, Pilot Sports, etc.?

Because there really is an important difference between those tyres and the Turanzas, Primacys and others in this class.

Once you try the real performance tyres, you just can't say that the Turanzas or Primacys offer the same level of sportiness.

If the Turanzas are sporty enough for you, it is all right, but objectively speaking, the real sport tyre is one level above.

 

[pkaps]

@pkaps we get it you like Turanza's

Yes, I like MY Turanzas, I have no complaints so far, I'm not a whinner or pretending to be a knowall expert on tires as most in here. I rely on people who are professionals, I mean people taking part in the making and testing of this and every car, especially the performance oriented ones. And its not just one person taking part in decisions like that but groups of professionals and experts, especially when we are talking about Cupra we are talking about specialists in performance and handling. Now if any of the friends in here think they know more than them I propose to run and apply for a job at Cupra. That's the end of my posts on this thread.

 

[chris_louk]

Yes, I like MY Turanzas, I have no complaints so far, I'm not a whinner or pretending to be a knowall expert on tires as most in here. I rely on people who are professionals, I mean people taking part in the making and testing of this and every car, especially the performance oriented ones. And its not just one person taking part in decisions like that but groups of professionals and experts, especially when we are talking about Cupra we are talking about specialists in performance and handling. Now if any of the friends in here think they know more than them I propose to run and apply for a job at Cupra. That's the end of my posts on this thread.

Dude, not even Bridgestone says the Turanzas are sporty, look at their website. The advertise how comfy and silent and high-mileage and low rolling-resistant they are.
They are touring tyres, you lose the argument before you even start talking if you compare them to UHP tyres for sportiness..

I believe that the reason your experience is good is because you haven’t tried a true UHP tyre like the PS5 to actually experience the difference.

You keep referencing experts. So you are telling all of us that experience numb steering and crazy-awful grip and wheel hopping and tramping that we are imagining it? Excuse me for trusting my own experience more than the opinion of an “expert” that works and is paid by Bridgestone..

 

[Lip]

Yes, I like MY Turanzas, I have no complaints so far, I'm not a whinner or pretending to be a knowall expert on tires as most in here. I rely on people who are professionals, I mean people taking part in the making and testing of this and every car, especially the performance oriented ones. And its not just one person taking part in decisions like that but groups of professionals and experts, especially when we are talking about Cupra we are talking about specialists in performance and handling. Now if any of the friends in here think they know more than them I propose to run and apply for a job at Cupra. That's the end of my posts on this thread.

Car manufacturers don't make the best cars possible, they make the best cars possible within certain budgets. I hope nobody will say that everything on the Formentor is the best it could have been. In the interior some plastics could have better quality, the central display could have better resolution, there could be a Bowers & Wilkins audio system, etc., which would make the car objectively even better and more appealing to more people. But it did not happen despite all the "groups of professionals and experts". The same applies to the tyres.

I admit that the choice of tyres is not entirely the same thing as the choice of plastics in the interior because there is another aspect in play here, namely the expected behaviour of the car. If people want touring from A to B, then you put a touring tyre on the car. Which again, is perfectly suited for example for the 150 HP version.

But Cupra stands for Cup Racing, it is the AMG or M division of Seat, so assuming that people who buy the most powerful version (the VZ5 is just a limited edition) of their flagship performance car expect touring behaviour, is just plain wrong, and nobody can convince me otherwise. Especially when the entire car is tuned as a performance car, it is stiff, it has a quick and precise steering, it doesn't lean much in corners, it has a special Cupra mode, etc.

The most probable explanation is simply cost savings. You have a deal with a tyre manufacturer (Bridgestone), you use the same tyre across the entire range of Formentors, you save money. You could have put a sportier tyre on the 310 HP version and make the chassis and the rest of the car shine even more, but so you could have better plastics in the interior, etc. It would require more special treatment of the 310 HP version, which would increase the costs.

 

[pkaps]

Car manufacturers don't make the best cars possible, they make the best cars possible within certain budgets. I hope nobody will say that everything on the Formentor is the best it could have been. In the interior some plastics could have better quality, the central display could have better resolution, there could be a Bowers & Wilkins audio system, etc., which would make the car objectively even better and more appealing to more people. But it did not happen despite all the "groups of professionals and experts". The same applies to the tyres.

I admit that the choice of tyres is not entirely the same thing as the choice of plastics in the interior because there is another aspect in play here, namely the expected behaviour of the car. If people want touring from A to B, then you put a touring tyre on the car. Which again, is perfectly suited for example for the 150 HP version.

But Cupra stands for Cup Racing, it is the AMG or M division of Seat, so assuming that people who buy the most powerful version (the VZ5 is just a limited edition) of their flagship performance car expect touring behaviour, is just plain wrong, and nobody can convince me otherwise. Especially when the entire car is tuned as a performance car, it is stiff, it has a quick and precise steering, it doesn't lean much in corners, it has a special Cupra mode, etc.

The most probable explanation is simply cost savings. You have a deal with a tyre manufacturer (Bridgestone), you use the same tyre across the entire range of Formentors, you save money. You could have put a sportier tyre on the 310 HP version and make the chassis and the rest of the car shine even more, but so you could have better plastics in the interior, etc. It would require more special treatment of the 310 HP version, which would increase the costs.

Sorry, I said I would not post on this thread again but I hate when people put in my mouth words that I did not say. Where did I say that Turanzas are considered Sport tires? I said they are SPORTY FOR EVERYDAY USE!! On another note, all those Formentor's reviews (carwow etc.) when they were praising the handling and behavior and performance of the car did they have the tires changed to MicheliNs, Contis etc??? Were they, all of them, also on Bridgestone's payroll? It is more than obvious that they at Cupra elected a touring tire with sport characteristics (it may well have been the Primacy or the Contisport contact or any other first class TOURING tire that also has sport characteristics) so that they can blend comfort/adequate sport performance and longevity. MOST BUYERS want just that from their tires, sure there are sportier tires that may suit better performance wise the Formentor (especially the 310) but you would have to give up comfort for that and for everyday driving, such as in my case doing abt 100 km per day, half of it on poorly maintained roads, as is the case also for most of us. This simply does not work and I'm sure we would have been looking to replace them with something comfier since the Formentor's suspension is not considered plush by any means.
Anyway, you feel like wanting to throw the car in to corners at high speeds or want to take it on a track day, then yes get a sporty set but you will pay the price on everyday driving comfort, especially when the Formentor is not considered comfy even on Turanzas.

 

[Lip]

Sorry, I said I would not post on this thread again but I hate when people put in my mouth words that I did not say. Where did I say that Turanzas are considered Sport tires? I said they are SPORTY FOR EVERYDAY USE!! On another note, all those Formentor's reviews (carwow etc.) when they were praising the handling and behavior and performance of the car did they have the tires changed to MicheliNs, Contis etc??? Were they, all of them, also on Bridgestone's payroll? It is more than obvious that they at Cupra elected a touring tire with sport characteristics (it may well have been the Primacy or the Contisport contact or any other first class TOURING tire that also has sport characteristics) so that they can blend comfort/adequate sport performance and longevity. MOST BUYERS want just that from their tires, sure there are sportier tires that may suit better performance wise the Formentor (especially the 310) but you would have to give up comfort for that and for everyday driving, such as in my case doing abt 100 km per day, half of it on poorly maintained roads, as is the case also for most of us. This simply does not work and I'm sure we would have been looking to replace them with something comfier since the Formentor's suspension is not considered plush by any means.
Anyway, you feel like wanting to throw the car in to corners at high speeds or want to take it on a track day, then yes get a sporty set but you will pay the price on everyday driving comfort, especially when the Formentor is not considered comfy even on Turanzas.

You are basically saying that if you feel the tyre is sporty enough for you, it must be sporty enough for everybody. It is not. In fact, touring tyres are the least sporty tyres of all! See for example this classification: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/tiretype.jsp

In other words, Cupra put a tyre from the least sporty category to their sportiest version of the Formentor (again excluding the limited VZ5). So I'm sorry, but this fact is undisputable and you can't argue that their choice is the best they could have made.

For sporty driving on the road there is the performance category (with several sub-categories) with the Bridgestone Potenzas, Michelin Pilot Sports, Pirelli P Zeros, Continental SportContacts, etc. One level above that you have the supersport tyres made to sustain track days, like the Michelin Cup 2, etc.

Before I bought the car, I watched every review I could find. On top of my head, about 5 of them said that the Turanzas are not good enough for the Formentor, which I had to agree with when I bought the car. I did not write down which reviews said that, by I remember this one:

It's in Czech so you probably won't understand it. The guy teaches sport driving, he is a professional. He said that Truanzas are crap on track, which is to be expected, but he said that even on the road they let the car down.

A quick google search reveals for example this review where the reviewer says that the Turanzas are not a good match for the car: https://www.motorist.sg/article/1056/mreview-cupra-formentor-damningly-distinguished-debutante

There are reviewers that are more focused on driving and handling, others are focused on interiors and boot capacities and other things. That is why not every reviewer will tell you that the car would use its potential more on a sportier tyre.

Each to their own, nothing against that, but there are objective measurements, categories and parameters. And when you are a sport division of a car manufacturer and you put a touring tyre on the sportiest version of your flagship, it objectively is not the best choice, when sport and supersport tyres exist.

 

[pkaps]

You are basically saying that if you feel the tyre is sporty enough for you, it must be sporty enough for everybody. It is not. In fact, touring tyres are the least sporty tyres of all! See for example this classification: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/tiretype.jsp

In other words, Cupra put a tyre from the least sporty category to their sportiest version of the Formentor (again excluding the limited VZ5). So I'm sorry, but this fact is undisputable and you can't argue that their choice is the best they could have made.

For sporty driving on the road there is the performance category (with several sub-categories) with the Bridgestone Potenzas, Michelin Pilot Sports, Pirelli P Zeros, Continental SportContacts, etc. One level above that you have the supersport tyres made to sustain track days, like the Michelin Cup 2, etc.

Before I bought the car, I watched every review I could find. On top of my head, about 5 of them said that the Turanzas are not good enough for the Formentor, which I had to agree with when I bought the car. I did not write down which reviews said that, by I remember this one:

It's in Czech so you probably won't understand it. The guy teaches sport driving, he is a professional. He said that Truanzas are crap on track, which is to be expected, but he said that even on the road they let the car down.

A quick google search reveals for example this review where the reviewer says that the Turanzas are not a good match for the car: https://www.motorist.sg/article/1056/mreview-cupra-formentor-damningly-distinguished-debutante

There are reviewers that are more focused on driving and handling, others are focused on interiors and boot capacities and other things. That is why not every reviewer will tell you that the car would use its potential more on a sportier tyre.

Each to their own, nothing against that, but there are objective measurements, categories and parameters. And when you are a sport division of a car manufacturer and you put a touring tyre on the sportiest version of your flagship, it objectively is not the best choice, when sport and supersport tyres exist.

Yeah, right, prime Touring tires are not sporty at all!! Watch it!!

'You are basically saying that if you feel the tyre is sporty enough for you, it must be sporty enough for everybody', Im not saying that, professional drivers (Modena) are saying it and most importantly demonstrate it if pou watched the video. Now what tirerack says its all about promoting whatever they like, one at a time for each manfacturer. Regarding the test in CHECH, or in any other language I don't really care as there are enough, tens of them actually done in english for the car, and not on a track where touring tires are not at their best, but on the roads we are driving every day and I don't remember any of them mentioning the Turanzas are crap or that they don't suit the car. There may have been suggestions that Sport tires would offer more performance characteristics but that's to be expected. You don't have to run a test to know that, what I'm saying is that the Turanzas are perfect for the average driver and the nature of the car, sure there are possibly Touring tires faring better , my guess is the Primacy , but that does not mean that the Turanzas are not good or inferior to the car's expectations for the average driver.

 

[Lip]

Yeah, right, prime Touring tires are not sporty at all!! Watch it!!

They might by sporty, but by definition they are the least sporty tyres you can get. On a sports car it's only logical not to put the least sporty tyre.

If you think Tireracks misclassified the Turanzas in the Touring section because of some promotion or whatever, you just make me laugh at this point. The touring tyre class is a standard class not made up by one entity, everybody uses this classification.

I am pretty much sure that average drivers don't buy 310 HP Cupras. The majority of them will be people who like spirited driving and will understand that the perfect match for a sports car is a sport tyre, not a touring one.

I feel like I said everything I wanted in our discussion, so that will be all from me.

 

[BigJase88]

Yeah, right, prime Touring tires are not sporty at all!! Watch it!!

The Primacy 4+ is a much better tyre than a Turanza. Even the older Primacy 4 non plus was better.

Different leagues

 

[G.P]

The Primacy 4+ is a much better tyre than a Turanza. Even the older Primacy 4 non plus was better.

Different leagues

Well, this thread could go on as, it depends what you require and which Turanza, Primacy 4 should offer slightly more grip in certain situations over the T001 but not necessarily the T005, but I've not driven yet on Primacy 4+ or the Turanza 6 so who knows, I suspect as normal the Mich. with a higher profile will suffer from lack of feel/feedback and stability due to its weaker carcass, considering Michelins price point over all the others they should address this, but neither are in different leagues, just different, as are all the others and us.

Its a shame one brand is not leagues ahead, but if they were then they'd be the best and no more post's about tyres, which would be boring...

 

[Korefan]

This is for the Bridgestone Turanza haters, better know more before you speak!

I have tried to drive my Formentor on the wet track. These tires are just ****. Really.
Just buy some Continentals or Michelin. And not Primacy

 

[pkaps]

I have tried to drive my Formentor on the wet track. These tires are just ****. Really.
Just buy some Continentals or Michelin. And not Primacy

Turanzas just like Primacys are touring tires, what would you really expect taking them on a track??? To behave like a true sport tire? And then you want us to take your post seriously?

 

[Seastormer]

I have tried to drive my Formentor on the wet track. These tires are just ****. Really.
Just buy some Continentals or Michelin. And not Primacy

Remember the Formentor is a SUV not really a track car by design, it may be fast in a straight line but won't handle like a lower set car, like the Cupra Leon. Looks like Cupra know that and that's why my car came with the sporty Potenza's while the Formentor gets the touring Turanzas more suited to a SUV for road not track use.

 

[TollyBhoy]

Just my humble opinion but having recently replaced all four Turanzas on the VZ 310 Edition with Continental Sport Contact 7s in 245/40/ZR19 XL, the change improves the handling particularly turn in at the expense of a firmer ride (which I wanted) and a lot more road noise. Also they came in at £35 a corner cheaper.

Only just run them in but they improve the handling and give real feedback compared to the floatiness of the Turanzas. Grip wise a bit early to say but no problems on today's greasy roads when I got a bit aggressive on the local back roads.
The Turanzas with 5mm on the front and 3mm on the back understeered terribly even on dry roads at 10 degrees C, in effect the car just refused to turn in and when it did under less power the weight shift would bring about snap oversteer at the back very similar to my Cupra 290 but at least under power.

Yes the Turanzas might be a good choice for those who potter about and expect 30k miles out of them. They might be fun on an empty track where you can afford them to be unpredictable as you search for their limits. But for spirited road use the Contis win hands down and will only improve over the next few thousand miles before trailing off. They are also one of the best if not the best looking tyres out there.

 

[pkaps]

Firmer ride and a lot more road noise for the Contis? And I thought that my Turanzas were noisy and firm, which they are, both! Was wondering if any additional door insulation would improve things!

 

[TollyBhoy]

Firmer ride and a lot more road noise for the Contis? And I thought that my Turanzas were noisy and firm, which they are, both! Was wondering if any additional door insulation would improve things!

On the plus side the tyre noise tends to drown out the fake RS3 noise from the fake sound thing. That makes them loud yes but Metallica works for me.
I'm old school, give me turn in and I will sacrifice noise dude.
Btw maybe music on trips could be a whole new thread

 

[TollyBhoy]

On the plus side the tyre noise tends to drown out the fake RS3 noise from the fake sound thing. That makes them loud yes but Metallica works for me.
I'm old school, give me turn in and I will sacrifice noise dude.
Btw maybe music on trips could be a whole new thread

Oh and also, if your other car is a heavily worked on Cupra 290 which basically sits on the road (thanx to Mark and his team at VAG Manchester) and runs stage 1/2, any Formentor will feel soft.
Yet I'm getting mine lowered and stage 1.
Horses for courses

 

[pkaps]

I'm doing abt 100 km everyday not counting trips almost every weekend so tire noise gets to me no matter what and I don't want always the Beats blasting to cover the noise, not really working for me. Most likely when time comes I will go for the Primacy, not the SP as I don't like the firmer ride nor the additional tire noise, hopefully they will be less noisy although I doubt it. I think it has to do mainly with poor sound insulation of the Formentor, mainly the door panels and wheel arches, so I will check if I can somehow improve on that rather than waiting for supersilent tires that don't exist. On another note, though this is another topic so shouldn't really elaborate further, out of curiosity, how can you lower the DCC on the 310?