Cupra R - Forge Remap Logs....feels slow

[ChrisGTL]

Ey up all,

Can anyone have a gander at these logs on a Cupra R 225 with Forge Remap. Owner says car was quicker when he had the map done, now feels slower.??

Group A:	'002				Group B:	'020			
	RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization
TIME					TIME				
STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF
0.01	1840	18	1.7	6.81	0.37	0	0	0	0
0.89	1960	79.7	7.82	33.75	1.38	0	0	0	0
1.78	2120	101.5	9.86	46.33	2.29	0	0	0	0
2.69	2320	130.1	12.58	64.67	3.09	0	0	0	0
3.49	2560	161.7	15.98	89.33	3.89	0	0	0	0
4.29	2840	188	18.36	104.56	4.71	0	0	0	0
5.11	3160	182.7	17.34	109.28	5.51	0	0	0	0
5.91	3440	175.2	16.66	112.56	6.31	0	0	0	0
6.71	3720	172.9	16.32	121.33	7.11	0	0	0	0
7.52	3960	173.7	16.32	132.81	8.02	0	0	0	0
8.42	4280	169.2	15.98	137.33	8.82	0	0	0	0
9.22	4520	166.9	15.64	140.67	9.64	0	0	0	0
10.04	4760	160.9	14.96	147.86	10.44	0	0	0	0
10.84	5000	163.9	15.64	155.28	11.24	0	0	0	0
11.64	5200	159.4	14.62	165.17	12.05	0	0	0	0
12.45	5400	165.4	15.3	170.08	12.95	0	3	0	0
13.35	5640	160.2	14.96	171.97	13.75	0	3	3	0
14.16	5800	160.2	14.62	175.97	14.56	0	2.3	3	0
14.96	5960	155.6	15.3	174.83	15.36	0	2.3	2.3	0
15.76	6120	148.9	15.98	173.97	16.27	0	2.3	2.3	0
16.67	6280	152.6	18.02	176.11	17.07	0	0.8	2.3	0
17.49	6440	146.6	15.64	176.11	17.99	0	0	0.8	3
18.39	6560	135.3	13.6	180.08	18.79	0	0	0	3
19.19	6680	142.9	14.28	179.06	19.6	0	0	0	3
20.08	6800	124.1	13.26	172.53	20.5	0	0	0	2.3

Group A:	'010				Group B:	'031			
	RPM	Load	Load	Ign. Timing		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor	Bin. Bits	Bin. Bits
TIME					TIME				
STAMP	 /min	%	%	 °BTDC	STAMP				
5.78	2040	97	91	13.5	6.3	0.953	0.953	        	        
6.7	2240	121.1	94.5	9.8	7.1	0.969	0.953	        	        
7.5	2440	147.4	98.4	6	7.99	0.961	0.953	        	        
8.41	2680	176.7	100	3	8.81	0.961	0.953	        	        
9.21	2920	185	100	3.8	9.61	0.953	0.953	        	        
10.01	3200	174.4	100	7.5	10.42	0.953	0.953	        	        
10.82	3440	169.9	100	9.8	11.32	0.961	0.953	        	        
11.72	3640	167.7	100	10.5	12.12	0.961	0.953	        	        
12.54	3880	168.4	100	12.8	12.94	0.961	0.953	        	        
13.34	4080	169.2	99.6	12.8	13.74	0.953	0.953	        	        
14.14	4280	163.2	100	14.3	14.65	0.953	0.953	        	        
15.14	4520	158.6	100	15.8	15.54	0.953	0.953	        	        
15.94	4720	162.4	100	12	16.34	0.961	0.953	        	        
16.76	4920	162.4	100	14.3	17.16	0.953	0.953	        	        
17.56	5080	161.7	100	12	18.05	0.945	0.953	        	        
18.45	5240	161.7	100	12.8	18.87	0.961	0.953	        	        
19.37	5400	164.7	100	9.8	19.77	0.922	0.906	        	        
20.18	5560	164.7	100	11.3	20.58	0.844	0.844	        	        
20.98	5640	157.1	100	13.5	21.38	0.75	0.782	        	        
21.78	5760	155.6	100	13.5	22.2	0.75	0.789	        	        
22.69	5880	145.9	100	15	23.21	0.852	0.86	        	        
23.69	6000	150.4	100	15.8	24.1	0.86	0.867	        	        
24.6	6080	152.6	99.6	15.8	25	0.844	0.828	        	        
25.4	6200	148.1	99.6	15.8	25.81	0.758	0.782	        	        
26.21	6280	145.9	99.6	18.8	26.61	0.75	0.766	        	        
27.03	6360	148.9	99.6	18.8	27.51	0.75	0.805	        	        
27.92	6440	146.6	100	16.5	28.32	0.828	0.836	        	        
28.72	6520	146.6	100	18.8	29.12	0.836	0.828	        	        
29.64	6600	141.4	99.6	16.5	30.02	0.75	0.774	        	        
30.44	6640	149.6	99.6	16.5	30.84	0.75	0.735	        	        
31.24	6720	142.1	100	18	31.64	0.75	0.743	        	        
32.04	6760	134.6	99.6	18.8	32.44	0.75	0.797	        	        
32.85	6840	121.8	100	21.8	33.35	0.821	0.844	        	        
33.75	6880	134.6	98.8	21	34.15	0.758	0.828	        	        
34.55	6920	145.9	100	21	34.96	0.782	0.797	        	        
35.36	6960	134.6	99.2	19.5	35.76	0.75	0.766	        	        
36.18	6840	73.7	20.4	29.3	36.68	0.774	0.758	        	        
37.08	5760	14.3	9.4	5.3	37.57	1.991	1.047

Group A:	'002				Group B:	'115			
	RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.
TIME					TIME				
STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	 /min	%	 mbar	 mbar
2.81	1880	90.2	8.5	35.58	2.42	1840	85.7	1750	1140
3.61	2080	106	10.2	45.67	3.2	2000	97.7	1880	1280
4.42	2280	127.1	12.24	61.5	4.01	2160	116.5	2030	1470
5.23	2520	156.4	15.3	84.39	4.83	2360	141.4	2050	1770
6.13	2840	185	17.68	100.86	5.73	2680	175.2	2040	2230
7.04	3200	179.7	17	109.72	6.54	3000	185	2000	2270
7.84	3480	173.7	16.32	115.42	7.44	3320	174.4	2020	2160
8.65	3800	169.9	15.98	124.14	8.24	3640	170.7	2030	2120
9.45	4080	169.2	15.98	132	9.05	3920	169.2	2040	2130
10.25	4360	166.2	15.64	141.11	9.85	4200	168.4	2020	2080
11.05	4640	160.9	14.96	145.56	10.65	4480	166.2	2010	2040
11.97	4960	163.2	15.3	152.31	11.47	4760	166.9	1980	1980
12.88	5240	163.9	15.3	163.75	12.37	5080	166.9	1970	1950
13.77	5480	165.4	15.64	169.83	13.37	5360	161.7	1950	2000
14.59	5720	156.4	15.64	169.92	14.17	5600	161.7	1920	1950
15.39	5920	154.9	16.66	170.22	14.99	5840	154.1	1880	1950
16.21	6120	142.9	17	170.06	15.79	6040	154.9	1860	1850
17.2	6360	140.6	15.64	175.11	16.7	6240	139.1	1870	1930
18.01	6520	147.4	15.3	178.31	17.6	6440	139.1	1870	1910
18.81	6680	141.4	14.62	178.67	18.41	6600	134.6	1870	1970
19.63	6800	139.1	15.98	176.86	19.21	6760	129.3	1860	1900
20.53	6960	132.3	15.98	172.89	20.12	6880	128.6	1860	1880
21.42	7080	128.6	14.62	175.42	20.92	7000	133.8	1870	1830
22.22	7160	127.8	14.96	178.67	21.82	7120	133.8	1870	1870
23.04	7200	24.1	2.04	5.36	22.62	7200	142.1	1570	1880

 

[8bit]

MAF readings look a bit low to me:

TIME					TIME				
STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF

<snip>

18.39	6560	135.3	13.6	180.08	18.79	0	0	0	3

180g/s x 1.25 = 225bhp. Boost seems to be peaking about 1.2 bar tho so as far as I know it's defo mapped. What air filter is on the car? Is it possible to re-log it with a MAF that's known to be OK?

 

[ChrisGTL]

MAF readings look a bit low to me:

TIME					TIME				
STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF

<snip>

18.39	6560	135.3	13.6	180.08	18.79	0	0	0	3

180g/s x 1.25 = 225bhp. Boost seems to be peaking about 1.2 bar tho so as far as I know it's defo mapped. What air filter is on the car? Is it possible to re-log it with a MAF that's known to be OK?

MAF is genuine 3 weeks old. Jetex cone filter.

TIP is OEM..........collapsing?

 

[james walker]

Fuelling looks all over the place to
Me, maf low as said.maybe indicative of a leak somewhere.

 

[ChrisGTL]

Fuelling looks all over the place to
Me, maf low as said.maybe indicative of a leak somewhere.

Yeh the fueling did look erratic to me too.......but havn't a clue what would cause that.

 

[Pyro]

What fuel is it run on if change tip for silicone one asap check for boost leaks and give the car a full scan check no codes are piping up!

What has he been told he should be seeing bhp wise?
And just a thought bit is he sure it wasn't a temp map to se what he thinks of it?

 

[ibizacupra]

its not a lot of boost being asked for their... top end looks close to std levels

 

[Pyro]

^^^^^^ Just like mine

 

[andy_lang]

I was looking to get a Forge map............. may go elsewhere now! lol!!

 

[james walker]

were the runs done flat out......

as bill said req boost looks low to me.

fuelling wise, look at plugs, fuel filter first. cheap fixes then relog.

 

[leon cupra r]

Hi all thanks for the input,it was my motor that chris was logging (ta again!), map wasnt a temporary trial, and the car is usually run on vpower, a couple of tanks back it had 2 or 3 tanks of tesco 99but since then its back to v power!

what do you mean by fuelling is all over the place? Can you explain that for a novice lol as chris said,maf is genuine bosch,replaced about 3 weeks since, and its running a jetex that i cleaned last week so should be flowing ok. Do we think the tip is collapsing?

the 225 bhp estimate would sound about right - other day my mate in a standard megane sport 225 got past me (i had 2 extra people and subs in the boot so i presume if it was 1 on 1 we would have been similarly paced...)

any other ideas what could be slowing me down? Thanks for the input so far!

 

[leon cupra r]

To add - James yeah the runs were all done foot flat on the floor,

Bill, how much lower do you think the boost request is than it should be?

Andy - don't get me wrong, the car was definately better once mapped, it doesnt usually drive like this! somethings wrong somewhere

And with timing, I dont really know how to read the logs, but am I right in thinking there is a slight bit of timing pull at the top end after 5800 revs? I was previously thinking of going back and asking for the timing to be advanced a little more as I only use 99 octane, but looking at the logs, is this not worth doing?

 

[james walker]

your timing pull is fine, i wouldnt advance timing until your issues are sorted. you can advance timing diy on unisettings if you have a vagcom lead.

id look at your fuelling side first and take it from there

 

[leon cupra r]

right, so those figures are showing a slight bit of pull? I am going to get it sorted before advancing it, but just wanted to be able to make sense of the logs a bit.

when you say the fuelling is all over the place, what do you mean by that, what part of the logs are showing this?

and you mentioned a possible leak... you mean fuel leak or boost leak?

thanks

 

[brad1]

Tbh, jabba sport, AmD, P-Torque, Revo are well known tuning companies, they do maps day in day out, Forge are silicone specialists like SFS etc, go to a proper ecu remapping specialist

 

[8bit]

right, so those figures are showing a slight bit of pull? I am going to get it sorted before advancing it, but just wanted to be able to make sense of the logs a bit.

when you say the fuelling is all over the place, what do you mean by that, what part of the logs are showing this?

and you mentioned a possible leak... you mean fuel leak or boost leak?

thanks

From my understanding a little bit (and yours is just a little bit I think) of correction factors are normal with some remaps, I remember reading a post that said they're common with P-Torque maps. It could be that P-Torque and Forge buy their maps from the same place, altho I wouldn't know that for sure. They're low numbers anyway, IIRC over 4 or 6 is worth worrying about, 2.3 or 3 isn't a big deal...

... but they could be another indicator of the fuelling. Looking at the second log in the original post, the two right-most columns give lambda readings. They drop from around 0.95 to about 0.77 as the revs rise but there are a couple of points where they are around 0.86 then suddenly drop to 0.75 then go back to around where they were before. Could be tired fuel pump or fuel pressure regulator, fuel filter needing changed or lambda sensors needing checked/replaced.

Am sure Bill and others will correct me if I'm wrong or have other possible suggestions tho, but I've got fuelling probs of my own at the moment so have done a lot of reading on this...

 

[james walker]

You want to be seeing
0.8xx under load on block 031 yours is lean low down and rich higher up,no fluency in the fuelling request or actual. Look for 12.5 ish on air fuel ratios. To get this multiply you fuelling at load by 14.7.

 

[leon cupra r]

You want to be seeing
0.8xx under load on block 031 yours is lean low down and rich higher up,no fluency in the fuelling request or actual. Look for 12.5 ish on air fuel ratios. To get this multiply you fuelling at load by 14.7.

so the two lambda values are actual vs requested? lambda sensor is the o2 sensor in the exhaust right? I'm presuming if the requested values are wrong as you said, it wont just be a case of a faulty sensor?

Im presuming, if there is a 'requsted' lambda sensor value, and this is wrong, this surely has to be an issue with the map?

 

[ChrisGTL]

Ey up Ben.

Glad to see your getting help on here

I've just sorted my FMIC out yesterday so will do the same logs as we did on yours so we can compare.

After fixing my boost leaks yours does indeed feel slow........I didnt feel the big kick in torque in yours which I get at around 3k in mine.

Will be interesting to see the APR vs Forge map results.

 

[8bit]

so the two lambda values are actual vs requested? lambda sensor is the o2 sensor in the exhaust right? I'm presuming if the requested values are wrong as you said, it wont just be a case of a faulty sensor?

Im presuming, if there is a 'requsted' lambda sensor value, and this is wrong, this surely has to be an issue with the map?

I was under the impression that the two lambda values are pre and post-cat, rather than actual vs. requested - some people on here think it's the former, some think the latter so I'm not sure. As I said earlier, I've got fuelling issues just now too but my car is still on the standard map. The problem with mine is that neither of the lambda figures don't drop as the revs rise so unless the standard map on mine is incorrect I'd have thought that the readings are in fact pre- and post-cat.

I found this page - http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/030-049.html - which lists the readings for block 031 that gives lambdas but there are four possible setups for block 031 depending on how the lambdas are configured in different cars so I'm not sure which applies to mk1 LCRs. Having said that, as far as I know there are two lambda sensors in the exhaust on LCRs so again I'd have thought that these correspond to the two values being pre- and post- cat, rather than actual vs. requested.

I know there are a couple of folks on the forum who work as Seat or VAG group technicians so really hoping one of them can clear this up once and for all!