EGR disabling - Another way to do it?

[mwragg]

Ok, great. Please would you let me know once you have done the mod if you get a CEL or any drop off in performance (namely max torque), like I did. On my 2004 Ibiza Cupra TDI I disabled the egr by blocking the vacuum pipe instead.
What year is your car?

 

[glynnd]

The best way to reduce the egr operation is to do what I did 15k ago.
Remove the conector pipe from the base of the egr which leads to the exhaust.
Using one of the metal gaskets draw around it onto a piece of steel. Cut it out and drill a 4mm hole in it and fit the pipe back inserting the new gasket in the place it came from.
Result is no check light at all, as I am sure you will get one by doing it the way it was done on tdi club. I tried fitting the new gasket without a hole drilled in it but the check light came on very quickly.
Glynn

 

[jonjay]

I am not sure why people think the Wingnut mod from the TDIClub wont work?

The whole aim of modding the EGR is so you retain the antishudder valve so you dont get the harshness when you turn the engine off/on.

The reason why the CEL code comes up is because the anti-shudder valve cant open. The ECU knows when the Antishudder valve doesnt open hence throws the CEL code. ECU does not however know when the plunger that operates the anti shudder valve is not working/not there hence the Wingnut mod works. The other benefit is that the plunger is gone hence it is less restrictive and less chance of clogging up.

 

[mwragg]

EGR plate mod

The best way to reduce the egr operation is to do what I did 15k ago.
Remove the conector pipe from the base of the egr which leads to the exhaust.
Using one of the metal gaskets draw around it onto a piece of steel. Cut it out and drill a 4mm hole in it and fit the pipe back inserting the new gasket in the place it came from.
Result is no check light at all, as I am sure you will get one by doing it the way it was done on tdi club. I tried fitting the new gasket without a hole drilled in it but the check light came on very quickly.
Glynn

Thank you for your reply, Glynn. I take note of your points, however, if the only way to prevent a CEL is to drill a hole in the blanking plate then [with respect] you have achieved nothing. The exhaust gases may still enter the inlet, albeit at a lesser rate, and you are still going to get the long term effects of soot formation in the inlet.
Marcus

 

[glynnd]

I am not sure why people think the Wingnut mod from the TDIClub wont work?

The whole aim of modding the EGR is so you retain the antishudder valve so you dont get the harshness when you turn the engine off/on.

The reason why the CEL code comes up is because the anti-shudder valve cant open. The ECU knows when the Antishudder valve doesnt open hence throws the CEL code. ECU does not however know when the plunger that operates the anti shudder valve is not working/not there hence the Wingnut mod works. The other benefit is that the plunger is gone hence it is less restrictive and less chance of clogging up.

Sorry jonjay but the anti shudder has nothing to do with it.
I can tell you now that before I drilled the 4mm hole the cel light would go off for 50 miles then come back on again, then go off again then on again. This was with the anti shudder valve working correctly. Somehow the ecu knows when the value for egr operation is exceeded hence the hole lets just enough gas through to stay withtin the limits
Glynn

 

[glynnd]

Thank you for your reply, Glynn. I take note of your points, however, if the only way to prevent a CEL is to drill a hole in the blanking plate then [with respect] you have achieved nothing. The exhaust gases may still enter the inlet, albeit at a lesser rate, and you are still going to get the long term effects of soot formation in the inlet.
Marcus

Yes I agree with what you have said Marcus and personally I cant drive around with the check light on. I have reduced it to a level I think has made a difference.
Glynn

 

[cheshire cat]

I am not sure why people think the Wingnut mod from the TDIClub wont work?

The whole aim of modding the EGR is so you retain the antishudder valve so you dont get the harshness when you turn the engine off/on.

The reason why the CEL code comes up is because the anti-shudder valve cant open. The ECU knows when the Antishudder valve doesnt open hence throws the CEL code. ECU does not however know when the plunger that operates the anti shudder valve is not working/not there hence the Wingnut mod works. The other benefit is that the plunger is gone hence it is less restrictive and less chance of clogging up.

depends on the ECU-- my '03 130 Ibiza is perfectly happy with the WIngnut mod been done fotr about 3 years

 

[Armitageshanks]

Hi peeps,
I've done the EGR mod almost a year ago on my 2002 Mk4 ibiza. According to the thread i followed then, PD models upto around 04' could have the vacuum pipe blocked without a CEL because the ECU was not programmed to check for abnormalities in this area. Hope this helps.

 

[mwragg]

Further to TDI PD EGR mods...PCV

Hi peeps,
I've done the EGR mod almost a year ago on my 2002 Mk4 ibiza. According to the thread i followed then, PD models upto around 04' could have the vacuum pipe blocked without a CEL because the ECU was not programmed to check for abnormalities in this area. Hope this helps.

While everyone out there (including me) wants to disable their EGR to stop long-term inlet soot formation as well as improving throttle response, why not also modify the PCV system? I believe this is Positive Crankcase Ventilation and refers to the system which bleeds off excess crankcase pressure by feeding air from the crankcase back into the engine via the inlet tract, just before the EGR. It is positive ventilation because the crankcase pressure is constantly drawn off by the inlet flow [rather than being vented to atmosphere]; the only problem is that this 'air' contains oil mist. Therefore, it should follow that this 'unclean' air (as opposed to fresh air from the airbox filter) will result in a slight power loss. However, some people say that this oil mist is required to help lubricate the turbo or is required to help lubricate the top-end of the engine.

My idea is to chop the PCV pipe (which links the crankcase to the inlet tract) and fit an inline sealed filter. I can post a photo of the PCV if anyone is interested. Any comments?

 

[muddyboots]

I can't believe that the oil vapour provides any benefit to the turbo (the bearings are lubricated by pressurised oil supply from the engine).
I'd also imagine that any lubricant benefit to the top-end would be negligible...

Nic (username: cheshire cat) did a CCV bypass ages back, I witnessed first hand his marvellous collection of tubing & copper plumbing connectors
I imagine he'll pop by and make comment !

 

[sssstew]

yep, and the old navy filters they use on TDIclub look good too. shame they arent available here in the uk

 

[mwragg]

Further to TDI PD EGR mods...PCV

Thanks, muddyboots and sssstew.

I am hoping that someone out there who has done it can give me positive feedback and also some photos...

Marcus

 

[glynnd]

Count me in I totally agree with the comments
Glynn

 

[mwragg]

Further to TDI PD EGR mods...PCV

Count me in I totally agree with the comments
Glynn

Thanks.

Just so everyone knows what we are talking about. Here is a photo...

Having done a little research I believe that, as well as for emissions, the manufacturers use the PCV/CCV because otherwise you have to put the oil which gets kicked out of the engine somewhere ie a catchtank. Unfortunately, catchtanks need periodically emptying. [Having said that, my car uses no oil whatsoever!?]
I see that CheshireCat (thanks, muddyboots) has done this mod so I am waiting to see you pics of the layout (please)...
Anyway, rather than fit a catchtank, is there no way that oil/oil fumes exiting the crankcase can be fed into the exhaust system ie downstream of the turbo and/or catalytic converter?

 

[basstard]

totally spot on comment,,, the exhaust gas recirculation wouldn't be so harmful without the oil vapours turning it to gunk,,,

IIRC prc did a mod on his toledo and he had a small external filter connected to the CCV system, same did mojogoes so I don't think it's something you can get only in the US,,, I guess just any sort of filter will do,,,

it would be cool if Nic could post some pics of his mod,,,

 

[basstard]

Anyway, rather than fit a catchtank, is there no way that oil/oil fumes exiting the crankcase can be fed into the exhaust system ie downstream of the turbo and/or catalytic converter?

I don't know if you've ever seen a broken turbo dripping oil into the exhaust,,, you deffo don't want to do that to your car,,,

 

[Muttley]

mwragg wrote

Having done a little research I believe that, as well as for emissions, the manufacturers use the PCV/CCV because otherwise you have to put the oil which gets kicked out of the engine somewhere ie a catchtank. Unfortunately, catchtanks need periodically emptying. [Having said that, my car uses no oil whatsoever!?]

The source of crankcase pressure is blow-by past the piston rings. This contains unburned fuel which will contaminate the oil, as well as being hot. So CCV fumes contain oil mist from the various lubrication flows plus unburned fuel, which in the case of a diesel is another sort of oil. Perhaps this explains why diesel cars seem to have the inlet-sludge problem more than petrol cars? Certainly emission control regulations mean you can't just leave the filler cap off to vent the crankcase.

Anyway, rather than fit a catchtank, is there no way that oil/oil fumes exiting the crankcase can be fed into the exhaust system ie downstream of the turbo and/or catalytic converter?

Sadly this will lead to exhaust fumes pressurising the crankcase and make the situation worse for the engine. The crankcase pressure is quite low (depending on how worn your rings are of course) - we used to get by with mesh filters in the filler cap, years ago. Exhaust pressure would overwhelm blow-by.

Also, oil in the exhaust would contaminate and poison your catalyst quite quickly. Downstream of the cat it could be an advantage, countering corrosion perhaps? However this is a flammable mixture (more so with petrol cars) and flames shooting out of the exhaust pipe are bound to draw attention

A catch bottle and foam filter is probably the best way to go.

 

[mwragg]

When you say:-

"Sadly this will lead to exhaust fumes pressurising the crankcase and make the situation worse for the engine."

Do you mean that the exhaust would effectively put a negative pressure on the crankcase ie start 'sucking' the oil vapour out of the crankcase? I am saying this because I do not understand how the exhaust fumes could put a positive pressure on the crankcase when drawing away from it...