Engine braking?
- Thread starter Peppermuncher
- Start date
i was abused by some septic a few weeks back for engine braking,i eased off and flashed a tarmac lorry out of a side road,i just eased off and block changed down to 2nd gear,i notice lots of light flashing and offers of maxwell house behind me.
at the next island the lights are red and he is in a LHD saab, he tells me that my brake lights don't work,i told him that i hadn't used them since he joined the road,told him where he had joined and that he had been tailgating me for approx 2 mile. first time i have seen a septic stuck for words.
at the next island the lights are red and he is in a LHD saab, he tells me that my brake lights don't work,i told him that i hadn't used them since he joined the road,told him where he had joined and that he had been tailgating me for approx 2 mile. first time i have seen a septic stuck for words.
number44
Guest
If you were trying to obtain a racing drivers licence (MSA Licence) you would fail the test for using engine braking due to it causing unessesary ware on the car. Have to admit i still do it sometimes though.
Welcome- interesting info as I suspected but did not know that track wisdom is up there with modern road driving practice- "engine braking" is not even an option on the DSG- yet the brakes are the same so obviously VAG don't plan on people using it -like Porsche ,Ferrari...
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Welcome- interesting info as I suspected but did not know that track wisdom is up there with modern road driving practice- "engine braking" is not even an option on the DSG- yet the brakes are the same so obviously VAG don't plan on people using it -like Porsche ,Ferrari...
why is that ? if you drop gear or two on dsg you're doing exacty that... its even in the handbook to switch to manual and select desired gear...
When you lift off the car does not slow as much as a manual and if you drop gears the rev counter shows more effect than anything - I haven't tried slamming it to the point that it wants to over-rev but have felt much less braking effect than I would expect from a manual. I will try in manual rather than on the paddles though!
Brakes are the work of satan guys ! (Lol !)
I remember reading an article about Nigel Mansell V. Ricardo Patrese (by Patrick Head at Williams) where he said that Mansell was more efficient (and quick) in 1992 because he braked less and this was much less unsettling to the car, whereas Patrese braked a lot and this caused the car to pitch around a lot more.
OK...that's not for road users,but worth considering...
How many times do we drive along the motorway and see drivers ahead constantly accelerating then stomping on the brakes, then repeating the process again and again until we have a good old fashioned tailback !?![[:@]](/forums/styles/seatcupra/oldforumsmileys/furious.gif "Furious [:@]")
It's because of this nonsense about only being educated to use only the brakes to slow down that so many drivers do this.
Try coming off the throttle much earlier, drop a cog and you simply may not need to stand on the middle pedal. This is far more fuel efficient and enviromentaly friendly (without being any slower) as well.
It's a pity the government don't go back to public information films like they used to as this might make people think about the way they drive and the impact it has on other road users (not to mention their cars / wallets).
If you get it wrong on a fast country road and arrive at a corner too fast, what do you do ?
Hit the brakes, right ?
Wrong...that's why we see so many wreaths of flowers by the roadside after Mr driver had an unexpected meeting with Mr Tree !
Think about it...
I remember reading an article about Nigel Mansell V. Ricardo Patrese (by Patrick Head at Williams) where he said that Mansell was more efficient (and quick) in 1992 because he braked less and this was much less unsettling to the car, whereas Patrese braked a lot and this caused the car to pitch around a lot more.
OK...that's not for road users,but worth considering...
How many times do we drive along the motorway and see drivers ahead constantly accelerating then stomping on the brakes, then repeating the process again and again until we have a good old fashioned tailback !?
It's because of this nonsense about only being educated to use only the brakes to slow down that so many drivers do this.
Try coming off the throttle much earlier, drop a cog and you simply may not need to stand on the middle pedal. This is far more fuel efficient and enviromentaly friendly (without being any slower) as well.
It's a pity the government don't go back to public information films like they used to as this might make people think about the way they drive and the impact it has on other road users (not to mention their cars / wallets).
If you get it wrong on a fast country road and arrive at a corner too fast, what do you do ?
Hit the brakes, right ?
Wrong...that's why we see so many wreaths of flowers by the roadside after Mr driver had an unexpected meeting with Mr Tree !
Think about it...
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I'm of the "always be in the right gear for the speed you're doing" school of thought as taught on the track. This means that you always have an element of control via the throttle which is definitely absent if travelling at 20 mph in 6th gear whilst coasting up to a junction.
The ideal situation is to learn to "heel-toe" which means a much smoother downchange as the revs are perfectly balanced to road speed, this is why DSG boxes blip the throttle on the downchange.
The ideal situation is to learn to "heel-toe" which means a much smoother downchange as the revs are perfectly balanced to road speed, this is why DSG boxes blip the throttle on the downchange.
Been reading this thread with intrest , havent posted cause every one is right !
depends what era you were taught to drive , i was alwyas told to use the engine to help you slow down and it stuck with me , my dad always did the same and as a kid growing up you pick up their driving habbits.
Thats how i drive and will continue to drive , i dont do it all the time , if the lights suddenly change in front of me then i use brakes and engine , but if there is plenty of time then i use cruise up using my brakes.
To the OP there is nothing wrong in engine braking , just do what makes you feel comfortable.
If you were to buy a second hand car , is 1 of the questions you ask going to be "did you use the engine for braking"? and if he replied yes would you walk away?
depends what era you were taught to drive , i was alwyas told to use the engine to help you slow down and it stuck with me , my dad always did the same and as a kid growing up you pick up their driving habbits.
Thats how i drive and will continue to drive , i dont do it all the time , if the lights suddenly change in front of me then i use brakes and engine , but if there is plenty of time then i use cruise up using my brakes.
To the OP there is nothing wrong in engine braking , just do what makes you feel comfortable.
If you were to buy a second hand car , is 1 of the questions you ask going to be "did you use the engine for braking"? and if he replied yes would you walk away?
It seems to me that there are two schools of thought here, - some were taught the method of engine braking as part of the general control of the car, and this does hark back to a few years ago, but this was also when more drivers actually understood how their cars worked and car control was much more important than the current school of thought (A bit like M&S ... "Plan A (Brakes) because there is no plan B"...) where we see more and more young drivers having really big accidents due to a complete lack of car control. Slamming on the anchors is no substitute for perceptive,and anticipative driving.
In 26 years of driving, the only time I ran into the back of another car was due to :
A) Total Brake failure (A Mini)
B) Complete inability of the ABS to retard the car on a downhill road on ice at walking pace. (A then brand new Vauxhall Calibra).
Personally, I don't think I was ever "taught" this technique, I just gradually evolved it through experience, and it requires a very smooth driving technique to get the best results, otherwise you really might do some damage...
No one in favour of the brakes-only school of stopping has yet answered the question :
What do you do when you have relied on the middle pedal and braked (many drivers too hard and too late) only to hit an unseen patch of water, ice , or oil ?
Answer : CRASH ! Because you have not anticipated the situation and have left yourselves no alternatives or time / distance to do anything else.
I see you causing jams on the motorway due to the on/off nature of this technique every week (red light constantly flashing in the rear window of the car in front...)and some of the jams are the cops having to clean up the wreckage...
Now stop being so naughty and lazy and learn to drive properly, Lol !
In 26 years of driving, the only time I ran into the back of another car was due to :
A) Total Brake failure (A Mini)
B) Complete inability of the ABS to retard the car on a downhill road on ice at walking pace. (A then brand new Vauxhall Calibra).
Personally, I don't think I was ever "taught" this technique, I just gradually evolved it through experience, and it requires a very smooth driving technique to get the best results, otherwise you really might do some damage...
No one in favour of the brakes-only school of stopping has yet answered the question :
What do you do when you have relied on the middle pedal and braked (many drivers too hard and too late) only to hit an unseen patch of water, ice , or oil ?
Answer : CRASH ! Because you have not anticipated the situation and have left yourselves no alternatives or time / distance to do anything else.
I see you causing jams on the motorway due to the on/off nature of this technique every week (red light constantly flashing in the rear window of the car in front...)and some of the jams are the cops having to clean up the wreckage...
Now stop being so naughty and lazy and learn to drive properly, Lol !
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I think we all use engine braking its just that the discussion has gone to extreme polarity's. I'm sure that those that who advocate brakes over engine braking are not talking about accelerator on - brakes on - accelerator on and so forth. There will be natural engine breaking in between the two through anticipation of the traffic. You cannot avoid it. Conversely those who support the idea of engine braking are not talking about 99.09% engine beaking and .01% foot braking. Both extremes are almost physical impossibilities.
I do support the theory of a engine braking in extreme circumstances too i.e. excessive speed cornering. In extreme cases this will help you get round a bend rather than brakes.
On a bike, brakes do not work well in a corner either front brakes on (80% ish bias) and you'll be in a ditch or the other side of the road and possibly a ditch. Rear brake can help with cornering though - only with light application.
I think in the real world we all use a bit of both somewhere in the middle.
I do support the theory of a engine braking in extreme circumstances too i.e. excessive speed cornering. In extreme cases this will help you get round a bend rather than brakes.
On a bike, brakes do not work well in a corner either front brakes on (80% ish bias) and you'll be in a ditch or the other side of the road and possibly a ditch. Rear brake can help with cornering though - only with light application.
I think in the real world we all use a bit of both somewhere in the middle.
Husband, I totally agree. (That's a great webname, by the way, - bet the wife loves it !)
Also worth remembering as one of the earlier contributors said, that if going downhill on steep inclines,(Lake District, Scotland, Alps, etc) riding your brakes won't be enough to stop you mounting a sheep or dry stone wall at the bottom of the hill !
That's why the sign says "Use low gear" at those hazards...not just for lorries...and that's why you see some second hand cars with warped brake disks !
Also worth remembering as one of the earlier contributors said, that if going downhill on steep inclines,(Lake District, Scotland, Alps, etc) riding your brakes won't be enough to stop you mounting a sheep or dry stone wall at the bottom of the hill !
That's why the sign says "Use low gear" at those hazards...not just for lorries...and that's why you see some second hand cars with warped brake disks !
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I suspect there is less between us than may appear. Of course the skill in achieving a smooth efficient drive is anticipation and of course that involves lifting off when the need to slow down becomes apparent.
The extreme polarisation of views stems from the parodying of the opposing one, so "engine brakers" all grind down through the box like people trying to get an overladen 50's Foden down the hill to Dover docks and the Brake primarily boys all rush up to tailbacks of traffic at 70mph and then come to a rest wreathed in tyre smoke and with their passengers and cargo stuck to the windscreen.
The reality is that a sensible driver in a modern car should back off, apply brakes in a measured and progressive way, if necessary, and make sure the car is in an appropriate gear for the anticipated next stage of driving. If you use the gearbox instead of the brakes or the brakes without using the gears to ensure the car is in a gear appropriate to the current and next phase.
In real life I bet jedimaster could not get about if you removed the fluid for his brakes and nor could I if my gearbox would not change. But at least I know what both are for!
The DSg does provide engine braking if you aren't in "D" as was pointed out to me but it isless effective than in a manual and I may find it useful in setting the car up for a series of bends when trying hard- but not very often.
The extreme polarisation of views stems from the parodying of the opposing one, so "engine brakers" all grind down through the box like people trying to get an overladen 50's Foden down the hill to Dover docks and the Brake primarily boys all rush up to tailbacks of traffic at 70mph and then come to a rest wreathed in tyre smoke and with their passengers and cargo stuck to the windscreen.
The reality is that a sensible driver in a modern car should back off, apply brakes in a measured and progressive way, if necessary, and make sure the car is in an appropriate gear for the anticipated next stage of driving. If you use the gearbox instead of the brakes or the brakes without using the gears to ensure the car is in a gear appropriate to the current and next phase.
In real life I bet jedimaster could not get about if you removed the fluid for his brakes and nor could I if my gearbox would not change. But at least I know what both are for!
The DSg does provide engine braking if you aren't in "D" as was pointed out to me but it isless effective than in a manual and I may find it useful in setting the car up for a series of bends when trying hard- but not very often.
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