LCR Diagnostics..Opinions please

[porki]

as i've said mate i haven't fitted any of the mods myself, and i've only now got around to looking into things.

i have ordered a 3bar FPR and also a modshack MAF housing, where he recommends the 4bar, but it's coming off until i can get all this sorted out.

rolling road was reddot in watford, what power would you be expecting to see from the mods listed?

 

[porki]

ooooh, forgot to add to the post above... the vag-com calculated power figure was 222 so i don't think the rolling road was that far out...

 

[Mitchy]

Vag com torque readings to calculate power are rubbish as they use the standard table values not the modified values from a remap.

So about as much use as tits on a fish if your remapped

Stage 1 map 260bhp/280lbft easy.

 

[longman]

Hmm thats interesting, didn't realist that.

Although, its interesting that the VAG-COm values are close the the RR ones.

 

[porki]

ok cool, learning new stuff every day!

FPR should be here thursday so i'll get that on and reset the ecu at the same time... once that's done i'll let you guys know where things are at.. and i'll call big boys toys and see what they reckon too.

thanks for the input so far!!

 

[longman]

Vag com torque readings to calculate power are rubbish as they use the standard table values not the modified values from a remap.

So about as much use as tits on a fish if your remapped

Stage 1 map 260bhp/280lbft easy.

According to Ross-Tech, this value can be changed to reflect a new torque value during a remap. Perhaps, as changing it is down to the discression of the remapper, some perhaps don't bother???

Might ask Revo and see what they do and how.

 

[Ruddmeister]

According to Ross-Tech, this value can be changed to reflect a new torque value during a remap. Perhaps, as changing it is down to the discression of the remapper, some perhaps don't bother???

Might ask Revo and see what they do and how.

Not sure exactly what you are trying to do, but if you are trying to determine what has been changed from OEM to remapped, you'll not have much success.......for a start the ECU has 15000 perameters they can calibrate and hundreds of tables and 2D and 3D graphs and maps in OEM form....Now as a guess (and I'm happy to be corrected) these cars operate a Torque based ECU, therefore tweaking the torque is likely to be the science behind the remapping and therefore kept rather quiet

 

[longman]

Cheers Steve...

I have tried running block 120 to determine Torque and BHP on a stage 1 remapped LCR. Mitchy has suggested, and quite rightly, that the standard torque value that VAG-COM will refer to - (against the actual) will not have been changed after the remap.

However, Ross-Tech have suggested that this value can be changed so VAG-COM can then refer to the corrected value and the graph I have created won't be useless afterall. I just have asked Revo if they do this or not.

I am just interested, as it seems funny that the RR results are quite close to the results I got from V-C.... I would like to know if I can trust the results in the future really.

 

[Ruddmeister]

Cheers Steve...

I have tried running block 120 to determine Torque and BHP on a stage 1 remapped LCR. Mitchy has suggested, and quite rightly, that the standard torque value that VAG-COM will refer to - (against the actual) will not have been changed after the remap.

However, Ross-Tech have suggested that this value can be changed so VAG-COM can then refer to the corrected value and the graph I have created won't be useless afterall. I just have asked Revo if they do this or not.

I am just interested, as it seems funny that the RR results are quite close to the results I got from V-C.... I would like to know if I can trust the results in the future really.

I understand that and I'll be interested to see if they do help, what I was suggesting is that telling you this might be a trade secret....

But you can only ask

Question is are the RR results reliable ? cue debate on Rolling Road / Dyno Lottery..........you'd be forgiven for thinking one set of figures could be relied upon

 

[longman]

See what you mean mate, I will let you know how I get on.

They can only say no I suppose!! - Thread below.......

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=137995

 

[Ruddmeister]

Probably O/T but this is an interesting old post from another forum member about how the ECU works and it's complexities.........

(just thought it was interesting more than necessarily relevant)
_________________________________________________________
Unfortunately it's a bit more complicated than that! (last time i checked Me7.1.1 has approx 14,700 calibrateable parameters, including something like 600 2 and 3 D "maps". The strategy guide is 6000 pages long!

Basically the ecu takes throttle pedal position as a driver torque demand, looks at current engine torque, calculates the new torque, splits off the torque delta into igntion / airside / fuelling torque demands, then tries to get to this condition.

It takes a lambda demand value (a product of a large number of maps including steady state fuelling, component protection lambda, the 2 main ones) Then measures the current plenum conditions from it's temp / MAF / MAP sensors, then corrects for manifold filling effects, again MAP / TPS / EGT / BARO / TEMPS etc, comes up with a base fuel mass. Then if within the "closed loop region" as defined by a further sub strategy, it adds the upstream lambda PID controller correction, and the rear sensor bias fueling offset, then adds the current filtered value of the fuel adaption RAM. This final fuel mass is then corrected for transient effects based on MAP and TPS, then a final fuel mass is turned into a fuel injection pulse width with further correction from fuel temp / pressure. Finally it looks up the injection angle, calculates the start and end of injection crank angle, then at the right moment actually injects the fuel. The resultant fuelling and air flow conditions are then reworked back into a flywheel torque figure and this is compared to the driver demand.

And i havent even mentioned OBD, Purge, Ignition, EGAS, CCM, traction control, transmision torque control, boost control and about 30 other important things, believe me, modern EMS systems are seriously trick bit of kit.

Always makes me laugh when i hear F1 comentators going on about how F1 technology improves road cars when it's really the other way around!
______________________________________________________

 

[speedsix]

I've been trying to find as much information as possible on how the Motronic ecu works (there is a really good Bosch book but it's pricey) by reading all I can find on the net and bug revo kev!!

It is indeed VERY complex. The main thing people seem to get wrong is how boost is generated. The ecu is load based, i.e the driver demands a certain amount (by pushing the accelerator) and the engine tries to deliver this amount of load by requesting X amount of boost it thinks it needs. Boost levels aren't hard coded into the ecu, boost is just a tool used by the ecu to create the desired load.

You can think of load basically as the amount of air molecules going into the engine (hence why the maf is so important in regards to load, dead maf, no power) or not 100% correct but loosely load = power.

The way the ecu works out timing advance is also very complicated but this explains it quite well

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2363607


Back on topic, for the ecu to calculate torque it would need to take into account mass airflow, timing and fueling.

 

[longman]

That aught to give me some reading material for a while!!

Cheers lads.!

 

[porki]

err.. not too sure i understand too much of the technical stuff above, have a bit of experience with emerald standalone management but that doesn't learn or anything flash like that...

anyways... sorry to ressurect an old(ish) topic but... fitted a new forge 007 in place of my split-R, just so i can rule DV out of the equation and I changed the FPR over to the 3 bar one, reset the ECU via the battery disconnect method and... no difference, except when blipping the throttle on idle there is no tiny hesitation...

so.. where do i go next boys - bypass the N249, as that was the fault code??

 

[longman]

I'm not really sure what bypassing the N249 does. I have heard about some people doing it on Ibizas.

As you know its that thats playing up, its probably best to just replace.

 

[Feel]

Have you checked for leaks? Can you do a log of group 118 and post up.

 

[longman]

This is a log for block 115. As far as I can see, it does show a bit of a boost issue but I assumed that was related to the N249 fault. Any suggestions would be welcome though.

I suggested it was best to get that sorted first and revisit if that doesn't give a noticable improvement.

 

[porki]

ok mate, i'll order a new one and then pop back to you if that's ok... i will not let this beat me!!

thanks for the replies guys!

 

[longman]

Seems logical mate. Get the known faults sorted and we can rule that out then.

 

[andycupra]

mt first impression when reading the first post and still after reading the rest is why use a 4barFPR if it is indeed revo stage 1.

however i am sure there was a revo stage 1 programme early on that set up for use with a 4barFPR.
most however are set up for 3bar.

is it possible to contact the previous owner?