Leon 1.4 TSI FR after Golf GTI?

[Whizzwheels]

Currently considering the 1.4 TSI Leon and wondered what current owners think?

I sold my 2009 Golf GTI Mk 6 a few weeks ago as it wasn't really being used enough to justify it. It was almost 5 years old, so it felt like a good time to exit the depreciation curve before the Mk 7 becomes more common.

Since the GTI Mark 5, I had always wanted a Golf GTI and I can honestly say that it lived up to expectations. It was easily the best car I have ever had. The smooth, torquey petrol engine suited my low annual mileage and short runs better than my previous BMW 120d.

The 3 door 120d had stop-start, but the system very rarely operated due to insufficient battery charge, as it later turned out. Not enough long runs apparently. Technology that doesn't work properly for whatever reason is never satisfying! It also had a few minor electrical gremlins, and frameless windows that froze both doors shut during icy weather. The Golf was faultless, so I am persuaded that VAG Group cars can be well built.

Anyhoo, that's all history now. I am currently without a car while I decide what to buy next (in no great hurry).

I sat in the Leon FR before selling the Golf. I have also read online reviews which usually give it 5 stars. I know about the new MQB family of cars, and I was aware that the Leon felt like the next generation platform compared with my Golf. The Leon had more interior space and very desirable standard features such as DAB, Bluetooth and parking sensors.

I also like to read Honest John reviews, and he has been very complimentary about the new 1.2 and 1.4 TSI belt-cam engines from a performance, refinement and reliability perspective. However, the Audi A3 and Golf are expensive with the 140 or newer 150 bhp engines. One year old examples are going for £18,000+. Whereas the equivalent Leon FR starts about £15,000.

I don't want to buy a car that feels inferior to the GTI and driving pleasure is important to me. I realise that the Leon doesn't have multi-link rear suspension for example. However, there were few occasions when I was able to use the Golf's performance properly. It was fun to try, but the economical new 1.4 engines seem better suited to modern road conditions. I imagine the ride comfort on the 17" alloys is good too? The Golf's 18" Monzas looked flash, but they were very susceptible to kerbing (and suffered from whiteworm).

As far as I can tell, the Leon FR could be the ideal replacement for the Golf. Does anyone have any experience of the two? Thanks in advance.

 

[Seastormer]

Welcome to SCN, only had a 1.4 in the Biza Cupra, and don,t think it sounds powerfull enough to be quick in the Leon, but have only driven the latest 2 litre Leon, so may be wrong.

 

[Whizzwheels]

This month's "What Car?" tested the 1.4 Leon SE 5 door against the Peugeot 308 1.2e THP 130. They say the Leon did 0-60 mph in 7.8 seconds.

On paper, that's about the same as a Focus 1.6T 180bhp. Sounds zippy enough to me and actually quite a bit quicker than the 8.2 seconds that Seat claim!

I almost get the impression that Seat decided to tone down the sales pitch for the Leon under orders from VW, to stop the Golf and A3 from looking too expensive?

Maybe I'm just cynical about the world of sales and marketing, or perhaps they also wanted to reduce the insurance rating? Who knows.

 

[chrisRibiza]

I got an ex demo Leon SE 1.4tsi but with tech pack, convenience pack, privacy glass, 17" wheels and a few other extras. I have done about 1500 miles now and would recommend the car to anyone.

Very comfy, nippy enough when required but also economical. I have seen pics if the inside of the mk7 golf and the two are very similar and I am sure most of the parts are the same.

I moved from a 1.4 85hp Ibiza to the 1.4 140hp leon and noticed a massive difference in power (obviously) and have to remember the speed limit at times as the car has absolutely no problems getting to 70/80 very quickly.

Led lights in the tech pack are brilliant and I'd make sure any leon you are looking at has the tech pack as the lights, nav and dab radio are handy.
Convenience pack is also very handy which gives you auto lights and wipers.

If you have any specific questions about the 1.4, fire them up and I'll see if I can help answer them but you'll it regret buying one. Perfect combo of power, comfort and economy.

 

[Craigr11]

I recently bought a Leon 1.4FR and like you really pondered on the decision and was concerned that the 1.4 would be underpowered and the Leon would be in general a bit cheap as a car in comparison to the Golf or Audi, but after test driving all 3 (and other cars) I'm really glad I got the Leon.

For the price compared to golf in particular it just was a no brainer. With the exception of some small interior finishes Seat have really matched up to their more upmarket cousins. Also the amount of standard kit with the FR is fantastic. Even more so with the free technology pack.

In terms of how it drives. Again I noticed hardly any difference between the golf gtd and Audi a3 with the adaptive suspension - Unless you are throwing the Leon around corners every day.

For me the 1.4 is quick enough. I also test drove the 1.8 back to back and really couldn't see a massive difference in immediate pace. Both have almost identical torque and only found the 1.8 a tad pacier at top gears. But personally didn't see the need to spend more.

All FR's handle really well. I have the 18 inch alloys and there isn't as much crashyness as I thought. So I'm mighty impressed. It's also not as firm as the Golf IMO.

Go for the 1.4, but test drive the 1.8 before you decide.

 

[bigbadjay]

I read on this forum the fr trim has proper rear suspension. Other lesser trims have torsion system

 

[Whizzwheels]

Thanks for the comments.

It's my understanding that only Leon models with more than 150 bhp have multi-link rear suspension. So only the 1.8 and 2.0 petrols and the 184 bhp diesel have it. But it doesn't sound like this matters too much in normal driving.

VAG spent billions developing the new MQB platform, so I imagine that the new high tech chassis compensates for the standard torsion beam rear suspension. For example, the Leon seems to beat the Ford Focus in magazine reviews. Yet the Focus has a multi-link rear suspension.

Time and tide wait for no man, and progress marches on. Everything I've read suggests that the new generation of cars with the MQB platform drive better than the equivalent outgoing models. Lighter weight, more spacious, more economical, better performance etc. It can take time for the public to catch on, but I think the new Leon, Octavia, Golf and A3 must be selling very well.

The trouble is that in my case, I would be going from a so called hot hatchback to a mid-range model. All the reviews compare equivalent models, yet in my experience, slower doesn't necessarily mean less enjoyable.

I like a balance between economy, everyday comfort and performance, so I even thought about the Fiesta Ecoboost 125 and Suzuki Swift Sport as possible alternatives to test drive.

However, I have a feeling that it's probably worth paying a bit more for the space and refinement of the Leon / Golf size of car.

The Golf GTI and 120d both had great sports seats. What are the seats like in the SE and FR on a longer journey? I'm showing my age now, but I owe it to my back to get good seats!

 

[JackReacher]

I owned a Mk 5 Gti for a while, great car. I have also had a test drive in the 1.4 Leon, although it was the 140bhp version not the updated 150bhp version but I suspect they are fairly similar.

The 1.4 is a very sweet engine, quiet and nippy with a nice spread of torque. I would also say that the car felt lighter and more nimble than the Gti, its a good car to drive. However, it did lack a lot of grunt. The only Mk 3 Leon engine that compares in terms of grunt is the 184 diesel in my opinion (cupra excepted). As to whether this matters is dependent on type of journeys etc. The 1.4 is going to feel weedy compared to the Gti on up hill sliproads etc and higher speeds. Around town and normal driving the 1.4 is perfectly adequate.

As for seats, if you are used to the superb Gti seats then you will not be happy with the SE seats. The FR ones are much better although still not quite as good as the Gti.

 

[chrisRibiza]

I drove 130 miles today and I find my seats comfy. Certainly don't get out of the car stiff etc


The leon has just won the Auto Express compact family car of the year award too
https://twitter.com/autoexpress/status/489155857171886081

 

[bigbadjay]

I test drove an mk3 fr the seats have half the support on the back and bottom compared to mk2 sport seats

I have a 125 bhp mk2 had it almost 3.5 years now, not often wants for more, and really surprises people how well it pulls. With these turbos their set up so boost is way low down with max torque (which is ample) from 1500 to around 4500 which helps.

Id be more than happy with a mk3, lighter which helps with handling also and more powerful, going off how well my mk2 has proven to be.

New tsi should remap well too, if they have designed it so they have a proper intercooler.

 

[Whizzwheels]

My Mk 6 GTI averaged about 31 mpg, 0 to 60 takes 6.9 secs.

Leon 1.4 TSI does 43.5 mpg (according to What Car's test) or 45 mpg (Honest John Real MPG), 0 to 60 in 7.8 secs.

If refinement is similar, that seems like a good compromise, accepting the reduced performance at higher speeds. Probably not worth paying the premium to get Golf sports seats if the Leon's are good enough.

 

[chrisRibiza]

This thread is worth a read if you want to see mpg http://seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=404901

I'm consistently getting higher than what car and honest johns figures.

 

[Seastormer]

This month's "What Car?" tested the 1.4 Leon SE 5 door against the Peugeot 308 1.2e THP 130. They say the Leon did 0-60 mph in 7.8 seconds.

On paper, that's about the same as a Focus 1.6T 180bhp. Sounds zippy enough to me and actually quite a bit quicker than the 8.2 seconds that Seat claim!

I almost get the impression that Seat decided to tone down the sales pitch for the Leon under orders from VW, to stop the Golf and A3 from looking too expensive?

Maybe I'm just cynical about the world of sales and marketing, or perhaps they also wanted to reduce the insurance rating? Who knows.

Yeh, but that's still slow compared to my 1.4 TSI Biza, it was claimed 6.9 but mags got 6.5 - 6.7 approx, so maybe I just expect quicker. PS SEAT's are all quicker than claimed, and also all the dyno readings I've seen on standard GTI and Cupras that I have had are more than the claimed bhp too.

 

[dephead2004]

You sound as if you have balanced needs in a car ie value for money balances performance etc. IOn that basis I can only recommend the Leon. The mqb platform is excellent, my 1.2 tsi with dsg is wonderful (low down torque, warms up in 1 mile in summer, 2 in winter 45mpg local miles). For me it's got the tech with the looks. As for the price package, there are great deals to be had ,£1000 towards your car with 0% finance ? How does that work?
All cars have compromises but this has a lot fewer than most. Mine? Once or twice (and I mean that) the non fancy rear suspension has been less than rock solid on a potholed corner. The plastics that you touch rarely, like the inside of the door pockets, which are coarse, don't compare with a golf or BMW. I cannot find anywhere to put a phone holder so used the glovebox lid with a cut circle of that sticky stuff etc. These are trivial things.
Go get

 

[Fred99]

The leon has just won the Auto Express compact family car of the year award too
https://twitter.com/autoexpress/status/489155857171886081

And the Leon ST won the estate car of the year as well. It's a pity they don't have a hot hatch category or the Cupra would probably have won that as well.

 

[chrisRibiza]

And the Leon ST won the estate car of the year as well. It's a pity they don't have a hot hatch category or the Cupra would probably have won that as well.

They do and it did....

https://twitter.com/AutoExpress/statuses/489158858074755072

 

[Fred99]

Great! For some reason it wasn't on the list of categories on the side of their web page.

 

[terryt]

I read on this forum the fr trim has proper rear suspension. Other lesser trims have torsion system

The 1.4 still has the torsion beam, more powerful models have the multi-link rear suspension.

 

[andrewpain]

I've got the ST 184 diesel, with sports seats in FR, but leather.
And they're pretty comfortable -I regularly spend 2-3 hours at a stretch driving around the country, and I don't feel achy. I'm quite tall, quite old, and have rheumatism. But you can manipulate the seat and the wheel to get snug. And came from an E-Class avantgarde, which had really comfy chairs.
Haven't experienced a GTi, but I think the seats in my daughters Mk5 GT sport are slightly more squashy than mine in the FR.
Guess you need to take one on a long test drive....I love the 184 TDi engine, though!
And the handling is good, even with a big heavy diesel lump up front. Must be the rear suspension...

 

[Whizzwheels]

I'm not too bothered about intangibles like brand or image, except in terms of depreciation.

The GTI's Monza II wheels were a drawback rather than a benefit, appearance at the expense of practicality and ride comfort. But I like a car that drives well and that's comfortable and practical.

I also think that in the past it was necessary to pay extra for the premium brands to get a certain level of quality. I've had two BMW's (320d then 120d) and two Golfs (TDI 130 and GTI). To me, each car was superior at the time compared with the other brands in terms of drive and interior quality.

The Golf Mk 5 was a turning point as for the first time it combined the driver appeal of the Ford Focus with VW perceived quality (and low depreciation). Since then, the Focus has struggled to compete.

I discovered that the two BMW's were less enjoyable at low speeds than the GTI due to their heavier steering, clutch and gearchange. A couple of winters with rear wheel drive highlighted the benefit of front wheel drive. (I didn't fancy a £600 bill for winter tyres unless I intended to keep the car long term).

Constant progress and the introduction new technology has a trickle-down effect. For the car buyer, it now looks like the law of diminishing returns sets in somewhere around the price of the Seat Leon.

My Golf GT TDI Mk 4 cost £15,500 bought new in 2001, and it did 45 mpg. Says it all really about how much quality has improved, and there has hardly been any price increase in this category over the last 13 years!