Looking for some winter tires and possibly rims

[Plaidy]

Hi all. New member here with a Mk3 Cupra ST 4 Drive. I need some winter tires here in Germany. I am trying to decide between the following options:

1. All season tires in 235/35/ R19 and not worry about changing out twice a year.
2. Winter set of stock size 235/35 R19 tires only.
3. Complete tire rim set of 235/35 R19.
4. Complete tire rim set of 225 or 235/40R18.

I am trying to figure out, if I go for a whole new set of rims, what are the offset of the stock rims and if I get something with the same offset will it match pretty closely the look of what I have on there now? I am not sure if it matters which rims I have (I think the car comes with different options?) but I attached a picture of what is on there now, for reference.

Expected driving during the cold parts of the year is mostly central Germany (not much snow) with trips to Berlin (and other northern places) and occasional trips down south during the winter for skiing. Any insights or recommendations regarding tire size, types, performance, etc for this car are welcome. Thanks for any help here.

 

[black_sheep]

After living in Germany for many years, I would go for a second set of rims with winter tyres if you have the space to store them, or if you don’t have the space you can store them at the local dealers/tyre fitters for a smallish fee.

All seasons are exactly that - a compromise. I have driven 2wd and 4wd cars with summer/all season/winters tyres across all regions/conditions. When the snow is deep cross climates will get you out of trouble, but do not perform as well as a set of winters. Conversely, when the temperatures warm up in the summer, winters/all season have a tendency to go very soft, wear quickly and are not great for braking from high speeds when compared to summer wheels.

In terms of rims sizes on a Cupra ST it depends on which brakes you have fitted. I can squeeze a set of 17” over the standard 340 mm front disc/callipers, but if you have the brembo 370 mm front disc/callipers then you are stuck with 19”. My 17” were purchased as the Tuv approved size for my Octavia VRS with the same brake set up, but this was at a time when 18” low profile winters were not common - there is much more choice now, and I would definitely go for an 18” rim/tyre if I was to purchase now.

The OEM sizes for 18” wheel / rim combinations are:

225/40/R18 Tyre. As it’s a Cupra estate in Germany and likely to be on Autobahns, I would look for an XL load rating (to carry load in boot/roof boxes etc if skiing) and at least a V speed rating (as a rule of thumb the XL load rated tyres normally have thicker sidewalls and are normally V+ rated).

The wheels will be 7.5 J x 18, with a 112 x 5 PCD, 57.1 mm centre bore and ET51.

The only issue you may have with a Cupra is fitting snow chains, if you go to areas that require it.

The best advice that I could give is go to the tyre fitter or dealer and get some quotes - they will have the latest list of Tuv approved sizes for the car; they will also supply spigot rings and bolts if you don’t go OEM. They will also be able to give an idea in terms of tyre performance from annual ADAC or auto bild winter tyre tests - they may also recommend some tyre brands that you may not have heard of in UK i.e. Kleber made by Michelin

In terms of winter rims, always go for an easy to clean design and don’t have diamond cut; they will get covered in grime/salt most of the time, so need a rim with a bit of durability.

 

[Plaidy]

Thank you for the all the information. Although I have not measured the rotors, I noticed the Cupra R model on the showroom floor had much larger rotors than the car I purchased. Looking at the ones on my car it seems like I should be able to fit an 18" rim no problem. I will start checking out some different shops in the area. Some questions regarding what you wrote about the rim dimensions:

1. 7.5 is the width of the rim and the J signifies a tire bead? I saw that the 225/40R18 is 8.9" wide. It's acceptable (desired even?) to have the tire be 1.4 inches larger than the rim? edit: when I look at wheels with (18"x)7.5" width on reifen.com I am shown tires that are 205/... when I look at wheels with (18x)8" width then I am shown 225/40 R18 as the recommended fit.
2. The tires on the car 235/35R19 are shown to have a diameter of 25.5" and a width of 9.3". Would it not be better to go with the 235/40R18 with the 25.4" diameter and same 9.3" width? Or is it beneficial to have a bit less diameter for the winter tires with the possible requirement of fitting snow chains at some point?
3. The ET51 signifies the offset that I was searching for, meaning 51mm? Got that one figured out.

Thanks again for all the information. I haven't rushed out to speak to anyone at a shop as my German isn't the best in the world and it's tough talking about this type of stuff without all the necessary vocabulary. Doctors and mechanics are the worst places to be when you don't have a complete mastery of the language, it seems.

 

[Mr Pig]

I second the advice to buy full winters on a second set of wheels. I did this years ago and I've never regretted it. You reduce wear on your summer wheels so they last longer and it keeps you good rims good. Less obvious is that winter tyres have deeper tread than summer tyres so last for ages!

All seasons are for tightwads. You don't want to almost stop in time!

 

[Plaidy]

I second the advice to buy full winters on a second set of wheels. I did this years ago and I've never regretted it. You reduce wear on your summer wheels so they last longer and it keeps you good rims good. Less obvious is that winter tyres have deeper tread than summer tyres so last for ages!

All seasons are for tightwads. You don't want to almost stop in time!

Haha noted. Thank you for the advice. I am looking at the Michelin Pilot Alpin 5's at the moment.

 

[black_sheep]

You can check the different sizes via websites such as willtheyfit.com

Results for the two sizes that I quoted are here:

https://www.willtheyfit.com/index.php?width=235&aspect=35&diameter=19&wheelwidth=8&offset=51&width2=225&aspect2=40&wheel_size=18&wheel_width=7-5&offset2=51

The 18” sizes are those fitted as standard for the MQB range of cars - A3, Golf, Octavia, Leon.

7.5 J rims will take a minimum size of 205 mm width tyres, but ideal sizes are 215 mm or 225 mm.

The issue with the chains will be the width of the tyre and the lowered suspension on this car. From memory I think that chains could only be fitted to 205/55/R16 wheels on the Octavia (and probably the same for the Leon), which will not fit over the brake callipers.

Also, remember the ground clearance of the car in deep snow - winter tyres and 4wd will give you the grip required to pull you into deep snow/drift, but when the car sinks or you bottom out you will be digging yourself out again!

 

[Plaidy]

You can check the different sizes via websites such as willtheyfit.com

...

Thanks again for the info. I verified the tire/rim sizes you gave at wheel-size.com (duh! to me) as well,

The problem about snow chains is interesting. I have definitely been places where I see the signs show they are required. I never thought about a possibility of not being able to use them. What about tire socks? Or are they junk?

 

[RUM4MO]

My daughter has only the standard Leon Cupra, and I suggested that she move down to 18" for winter wheels/tyres, which she did via MyTyres.co.uk which is based in Germany, well it has a group of names including mainland Europe only ones.

The logic in moving down to 18" in winter, for me, is that you end up with a tyre that has a higher side wall and so more able to protect the alloy wheels in extremely rough road surfaces which you get in winter, especially if the road is covered in sold ice/compacted snow with "holes" in it.

Some alloys being sold in mainland Europe - ie from Germany, are listed as being "winter use" and so possibly have a better coating to resist the salt etc that ends up on the roads in winter.

Winter wheels-tyres are a relatively new concept in UK for most people, I have only been using them since 2006, I would have expected that someone living in Germany would be a lot more aware about this than us in UK and your access to winter tyres a lot easier than over in UK, good luck with which ever rim size you chose.

Edit:- my garage current has 3 sets of summer/winter wheels+tyres, now all sitting on their own "tyre dollies with wheels" - which makes life a lot easier than having stacks of wheels+tyres stealing space! Plus I now have a 4th "wheel dolly with wheels" to store my 2 pairs of Jackpoint jack stands on when they are not in use, and the wheels on either car I am working on when it is lifted up onto these Jackpoint jack stands - and I will make up a "top" for that so that when not in use it will be a table to store more "stuff" on!

 

[Plaidy]

My daughter has only the standard Leon Cupra...

Without really *knowing*, that was kind of my thought about moving to 18" for winter tires. I saw when looking at a major tire website in Germany they have a tick box to show rims good for the winter, so that is good to know. Hopefully they hold up well in the cold months.

In regard to why I don't know much about the winter tires: I am an American that grew up in Arizona. The concept of tires being anything other than something that stays on your car until the belts are showing is something completely foreign to me.

 

[BigJase88]

Im running all seasons so must be a tight wad

 

[black_sheep]

Less obvious is that winter tyres have deeper tread than summer tyres so last for ages!

One consideration is that although legal tread depth is 1.6mm (UK), once a winter tyre tread depth is below 4mm they effectively cease to be winter tyres (you will see a wear indicator on the tyre for this, and is generally where the sipes in the tread are worn to an extent they are no longer effective) - however, they will still perform better on cold roads due to the rubber compounds vs summer tyres.

https://www.vredestein.co.uk/car-suv-van/guides/buying/when-should-i-replace-my-tyres/

In terms of the snow-socks, there are mixed reviews for these, and they are not considered an alternative for chains in alpine regions.

My advice is always check the weather immediately before travelling. If skiing/travelling in areas where chains are required during heavy snowfall, I usually stop short, park-up and catch a bus up to the slopes/resort or chose an alternate route for mountain passes.

 

[Mr Pig]

The logic in moving down to 18" in winter, for me, is that you end up with a tyre that has a higher side wall and so more able to protect the alloy wheels in extremely rough road surfaces

Our winter wheels are 16'' steel. I hit a big pot hole in the dark a few years ago, you want to have heard the bang! Dented the wheel. Had it been an 18'' alloy I'm certain it would have been destroyed.

 

[RUM4MO]

Im running all seasons so must be a tight wad

Yes!

But, the summer tyres/wheels have not been on my Audi S4 for a couple of years now, going away from mid week holiday breaks in late Spring and early Winter, in Northern UK, means lots of rain, so my winter tyres can handle that better than my summer ones.

The choice of all season or summer<>winter tyres must be down to location really, we get some seriously nasty winter conditions, but if I do what we intend to do and travel well South in summer, then my winter tyres might just get a bit sloppy.

 

[RUM4MO]

One consideration is that although legal tread depth is 1.6mm (UK), once a winter tyre tread depth is below 4mm they effectively cease to be winter tyres (you will see a wear indicator on the tyre for this, and is generally where the sipes in the tread are worn to an extent they are no longer effective) - however, they will still perform better on cold roads due to the rubber compounds vs summer tyres.

https://www.vredestein.co.uk/car-suv-van/guides/buying/when-should-i-replace-my-tyres/

In terms of the snow-socks, there are mixed reviews for these, and they are not considered an alternative for chains in alpine regions.

My advice is always check the weather immediately before travelling. If skiing/travelling in areas where chains are required during heavy snowfall, I usually stop short, park-up and catch a bus up to the slopes/resort or chose an alternate route for mountain passes.

The tread depth thing is exactly the reason why so many "part worn" winter tyres appear on ebay, and to the average UK motorist, look too tempting to miss - I've only ever bought winter tyres new and freshly manufactured as 5 years later they will not be quite as supple as they were in day one.

 

[RUM4MO]

Our winter wheels are 16'' steel. I hit a big pot hole in the dark a few years ago, you want to have heard the bang! Dented the wheel. Had it been an 18'' alloy I'm certain it would have been destroyed.

Yup, small as possible rims will work better on tyre price as well, my wife's Polo has 288mm front discs, so 15" is the lower limit for that car - looks a bit tight space wise, but still okay!

 

[BigJase88]

I am running Bridgestone Weather Control A005 tyres in 225/40/18 cause i’m a tight wad, they were actually rather expensive for a tight wad. Around £110-120 a tyre.
I don’t get the winter weather where i live for the need for winters. Be lucky if we get one snow day a year even then lucky if it lies. Coastal you see.

i usually run summers all year round but since the missus now drives the car i thought all seasons would be better for her in winter. Thats the only reason i have them on the car.

 

[Speedbird]

All season tyres get my vote every time, unless you live in a very rural location.

I had an Audi A3 that I put winter tyres on as I went to Cologne christmas markets and it was a legal requirement. They were premium winter tyres, but they were so soft, I didn't have much confidence in them in anything other than freezing temperatures (which you don't always have in a mild winter).

Then I got a Kuga AWD and fitted Pirelli Scorpion Verde All Season tyres and these were amazing. They were great in summer, got me out of plenty of muddy camping fields and mtb car parks. Then in winter, they were amazing on the snow. This is me messing about in the snow on the Kuga, after doing a 30 mile drive to work on untreated deep snowy roads:

Then when I got my Leon ST, straight away I fitted Michelin Cross Climate Plus tyres, and have had them for 2.5 years. They genuinely perform as well as summer tyres during the summer. In winter, you can feel the extra grip and I have total confidence in them. Yet to try them in deep snow, but they work pretty well in this video review in snow:

So I guess I am another tight wad on all season tyres . But in my experience, why would you have full winters, unless you regularly drive on snowy, untreated rural roads.

 

[Big Col]

i would have thought being in Germany there would be many more places to supply winter wheels and tyres ? Winter tyres are legally required in Germany ?

the UK is hopeless for this. I asked my local VW dealer about winter wheel and tyre packages and he looked at me like an idiot. A large percentage of UK drivers drive about on budget summer tyres and then blame the council for not gritting the roads when they get stuck.

I've got seperate summer and winter wheels and tyres.

 

[RUM4MO]

I am running Bridgestone Weather Control A005 tyres in 225/40/18 cause i’m a tight wad, they were actually rather expensive for a tight wad. Around £110-120 a tyre.
I don’t get the winter weather where i live for the need for winters. Be lucky if we get one snow day a year even then lucky if it lies. Coastal you see.

i usually run summers all year round but since the missus now drives the car i thought all seasons would be better for her in winter. Thats the only reason i have them on the car.

A good plan as they work better than summer tyres even in the wet plus in the cold even if there is no deep snow.

 

[Plaidy]

i would have thought being in Germany there would be many more places to supply winter wheels and tyres ? Winter tyres are legally required in Germany ?

There are many places that supply them, indeed. I am just not all that knowledgeable on the subject and I am not a native German speaker. I figured I'd head to a forum full of people that a) know a lot more about the car I just bought than I do b) speak English.

All season tyres get my vote every time, unless you live in a very rural location.
...

Thanks for the input. I owned a 2007 Audi A4 Quattro diesel a few years back and was running Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06's on. I never had any issues with those tires and they seemed to perform well on the Autobahn and the one or two times they were in the snow but I never drove that car all that aggressively. I have the AWD again here but I'm pretty sure this car is a lot lighter and it is definitely more powerful so I just wanted to ensure I was setting it up right. I will take this into consideration though.

Opponents of All-Season tires always say they are louder too. Have you noticed that? I never did on my Audi but the Mk3 Cupra ST is a louder car than the Audi because of the glass roof and probably just because it's not as "premium" of a build. I imagine that tire noise will be more easily heard in the Cupra.