Looking for some winter tires and possibly rims

[RUM4MO]

The 8jx18 ET 50 will fit with 235/40/18 tyres maybe even 225/40/18 tyres but 225 width tyres might not wide enough.

My daughter bought 8J with 225/40 fitted to them, 225 is safety wise okay for use with 8J but VW Group would always offer 7.5J for use with that tyre, and I can see from the Winter alloys that my daughter bought, maybe why that would be as when you place her alloys down on a flat surface, the edge of the alloy touches the ground before the rim protector strip does - so with her combo of Goodyear Winter tyres and Gunmetal Grey coloured Autec Wizards, there is no effective rim protection even with a tyre that has a rim protection band.

I did suggest to her to find wheels that she liked the appearance of and that conformed with VW Group OEM classical characteristics (if they do then they will be listed as OEM) but on her boyfriend's advice she went for 8J ET45 - lack of choice probably drove her in that direction, plenty 8.0J X 18" much fewer 7.5J X 18"!

 

[RUM4MO]

Remember as well as a price saving in using 225, the normal trend is to move down a width at least for winter tyres, so moving down from 19" 235 to 18" 225 is what a lot of people will be doing as the slightly narrower tyre will provide slightly more "bit" into fresh snow, I suppose it all adds up.

As no doubt you will know, if moving away from OEM type of alloys, you will be changing from sperical profiled wheel bolts to tapered wheel bolts, they will normally be supplied with a new set of alloys if they need them along with spigot rings if the new wheels need them. If your car currently has a steel spare wheel, make sure if fitting non OEM wheels, to keep a set of the VW Group wheel bolts in the car in case you get a puncture, and also a couple of spare spigot rings in case they do not survive being removed from the flat winter wheel - or the car hub. These are all very cheap items to buy on ebay, spigot rings tend to be plastic and sold in sets of 4, VW group wheel bolts are M14 with 27mm threaded length and have 17mm hex heads. Brimecc is an Italian company that provide quality wheel bolts finished in normal silver colour or if wanting to match your new wheels which will probably not allow the fitting of the SEAT plastic bolt covers, they also sell them chemi blackened, so in a black finish and they also sell their version of locking wheel bolts - and their bolt "security key" does fit down inside the counterbore of most aftermarket alloy wheels - just in case you want to use locking wheel bolts. I've been there done that for my daughter as her wheels and maybe others come with new wheel bolts which are longer than necessary, and I wanted to address that issue in case the longer bolts fouled anything(unlikely) or got covered in brake dust so much that they damaged the car's hub threads when eventually being removed. By the way the bolt "projection" on the VW Group alloys and the aftermarket alloys ended up being the same after removing the supplied maybe 33mm long bolts with new 27mm long bolts.

Maybe too much info for you, but if you read it all and find it necessary to do what I did, then you should have worry free Winter motoring when your new wheels and tyres are bought and fitted.

I think that I increase tyre pressures by a few PSI for Winter use, there is a an advised tyre pressure increase to handle the drop in temperature - maybe it is 0.1Bar or 0.15Bar - I've noted "+3PSI" for Winter use - though that is probably irrelevant as the suggested range of Summer tyre pressures spans a lot more than 3PSI! If you are a stickler for setting tyre pressures "bang on for you" then just add +3PSI or 0.2Bar.

 

[black_sheep]

Remember as well as a price saving in using 225, the normal trend is to move down a width at least for winter tyres, so moving down from 19" 235 to 18" 225 is what a lot of people will be doing as the slightly narrower tyre will provide slightly more "bit" into fresh snow, I suppose it all adds up.

As no doubt you will know, if moving away from OEM type of alloys, you will be changing from sperical profiled wheel bolts to tapered wheel bolts, they will normally be supplied with a new set of alloys if they need them along with spigot rings if the new wheels need them. If your car currently has a steel spare wheel, make sure if fitting non OEM wheels, to keep a set of the VW Group wheel bolts in the car in case you get a puncture, and also a couple of spare spigot rings in case they do not survive being removed from the flat winter wheel - or the car hub. These are all very cheap items to buy on ebay, spigot rings tend to be plastic and sold in sets of 4, VW group wheel bolts are M14 with 27mm threaded length and have 17mm hex heads. Brimecc is an Italian company that provide quality wheel bolts finished in normal silver colour or if wanting to match your new wheels which will probably not allow the fitting of the SEAT plastic bolt covers, they also sell them chemi blackened, so in a black finish and they also sell their version of locking wheel bolts - and their bolt "security key" does fit down inside the counterbore of most aftermarket alloy wheels - just in case you want to use locking wheel bolts. I've been there done that for my daughter as her wheels and maybe others come with new wheel bolts which are longer than necessary, and I wanted to address that issue in case the longer bolts fouled anything(unlikely) or got covered in brake dust so much that they damaged the car's hub threads when eventually being removed. By the way the bolt "projection" on the VW Group alloys and the aftermarket alloys ended up being the same after removing the supplied maybe 33mm long bolts with new 27mm long bolts.

Maybe too much info for you, but if you read it all and find it necessary to do what I did, then you should have worry free Winter motoring when your new wheels and tyres are bought and fitted.

I think that I increase tyre pressures by a few PSI for Winter use, there is a an advised tyre pressure increase to handle the drop in temperature - maybe it is 0.1Bar or 0.15Bar - I've noted "+3PSI" for Winter use - though that is probably irrelevant as the suggested range of Summer tyre pressures spans a lot more than 3PSI! If you are a stickler for setting tyre pressures "bang on for you" then just add +3PSI or 0.2Bar.

Good point about the bolts and tyre pressures at +3 psi.

In terms of using a narrower tyre for winter use, this is no longer what vehicle or tyre manufactures recommend. This is so that the driving dynamics of the vehicle remain as close as possible to the standard design. However 225 vs 235 mm is not considered a significant amount (4%). I recall the Continental website having some useful info on this.

If buying the winter tyre set complete in Germany, I have always been quoted/supplied for the bolts and spigot rings too. In fact they will probably not fit them without new bolts that they have supplied. Only other thing to consider is locking wheel bolts of the correct size.

 

[Plaidy]

... Maybe too much info for you, but if you read it all and find it necessary to do what I did, then you should have worry free Winter motoring when your new wheels and tyres are bought and fitted....

It's all great info. Thank you. I was actually wondering why the local parts store (ATU) was trying to gouge me for black wheel bolts with the purchase of some of the rims I was looking at, as I figured I already had a set with black covers. That is great to know. I bought some stock copper colored Seat Cupra center bore caps but I am seeing now that they do not fit on all aftermarket wheels, unfortunately. Hopefully they will on the set I buy.

As of now I am looking to get the RC Design RC32 Satin Matte Black in 7.5Jx18 ET51 with Michelin Pilot Alpin 5. The RC32s don't prompt an offer for black wheel bolts so I am assuming they come with them. ATU is asking if I want black metallic valve stems for 7 euro a piece and nitrogen fills for 3 euro a tire. Are either of these things worth it?

If buying the winter tyre set complete in Germany, I have always been quoted/supplied for the bolts and spigot rings too. In fact they will probably not fit them without new bolts that they have supplied...

ATU seems to be the only one trying to charge extra for some of this stuff. I stopped by a few independent tire shops and that sort of thing seems to be included in the price. I would like to do business with a smaller shop but they seem intent on telling me what style and sizing I should get based on what they find first on their screen. Now that I have found what I want, I just want a place to give me a quote for the exact parts installed and the summer tire storage. Seems like that shouldn't be so difficult but alas...

Edit: Oh I know there was some mention of V+ rating on the tire. There is a W rated Alpin 5 but is it worth it to get? I see the car is rated to 250km and I can't see ever approaching the upper limit of 240km on these tires in the winter. Is there some other factor I should look at when making that decision?

Also, most of the places I spoke to said Michelin Pilot Alpin 5s are the best choice (confirming my own research) but one place was saying that the Pirelli Winter Sottozero 3 is an all around better performer? Does it really matter between the two or is the guy just blowing smoke? He was trying to explain how with an all wheel drive car that the Pirelli's perform better ... for some reason but I wasn't able to understand the details with my terrible German skills.

 

[black_sheep]

ATU are a national chain, similar to our Halfords in UK.

The bolts will be circa €20-30 for a set, and locking bolts about the same. Spigot rings from retailer are circa €20. Sorry for any confusion earlier - these will be quoted ie. they will tell you which ones you need and add them to the order.

Obviously, you can get these from Amazon or eBay etc cheaper in the future.

Spigot rings will usually be required because VAG and MB use the same 5 bolt pcd, but MB have a larger inner bore - obviously the majority of aftermarket rims will be for universal fitment, so the spigot rings reduce the bore size.

Go with whichever brand of tyres you want - you’ve done the research and Michelin are one of the premium brands others benchmark themselves against.

W speed rated tyres will be fine too.

 

[RUM4MO]

In unregulated UK where very few people use Winter tyres, I played safe for the S4 and bought similar speed rated tyres to that fitted at factory for Summer use. I think in Germany Winter speeds are better regulated and so you will be allowed by your insurer to use a lower speed rated Winter tyre. As i and my wife and daughter tend to leave Winter tyres on for 6 months starting mid/late October, I've chosen and suggested a higher than really required speed rating "just to be safe" although we know not to "push" these Winter tyres during warmer periods of use. There is probably a Winter tyre speed warning that you can set in your infotainment system is you need to be kept aware of speed in Winter, I'd doubt if you would need to use that to keep safe/legal.

I've just checked and my daughter's 2019 Cupra came with "Y" Summer tyres and she uses "V" Winter tyres.

I've always used Alpins or Alpin Pilot on our cars, they last for ever tread wear wise, though 5 winters is all they tend to be said to be 100% as pliable/supple as they started life. Have you looked into if you should really be buying Alpin Pilots and not Alpins for your Cupra ST 4X4?

 

[Plaidy]

... Have you looked into if you should really be buying Alpin Pilots and not Alpins for your Cupra ST 4X4?

I didn't even know until right now that there was a Pilot and non-Pilot Alpin 5. More research for me I guess.

Edit: From a quick look, I don't see anything except Pilot Alpin 5 in 225/40 R18.

 

[RUM4MO]

That make and model of wheel is listed on the "mytyres.co.uk" website as being classed as OE or at least that is stated as the accessory supplied - which leads me to think that they will not need a spigot ring adaptor of different wheel bolt design, although if the counterbore is less than the SEAT alloys, you will need chemi blackened 27mm bolts 20-off and chemi blackened security bolts 4-off to get the best looking results. Time will tell.

Maybe look on the Michelin tyres website, if necessary use the UK site as that will be in English, and take it from there, it is a sort of messy website but you should get there eventually!! (www.michelin.co.uk)

 

[black_sheep]

Forgot to mention earlier:

Metal valves - these are for aesthetics or for where the tyre pressure monitoring system is built into the valve (ie. BMW), but don’t bother on winter tyres. They will just be an area for accelerated corrosion. Also, don’t use metal dust caps - these are also a pain in the rear to remove.

In terms of nitrogen fill, the advantages are that the gas is less susceptible to pressure changes in temp (weather, higher speeds and braking from high speeds) and the molecules are larger than standard air from atmosphere/compressor, so theoretically you should have to check/inflate the tyres less. However, all German fuel stations have free air via a calibrated unit, unlike UK where you have to pay for a poorly serviced dispenser with questionable calibration of the gauge. If you check the tyre pressures frequently, then normal air is ok.

In terms of the speed rating, the car has a winter tyre / speed rating that can be set to give an audible ‘bing’ at set speed (usually 130 kph or speed rating limit of tyre fitted).

I don’t recall having seen any winter tyres above W rating (which exceeds the standard V-max) and very few Y rated all seasons.

In terms of the speed rating in Germany, the only issues that I’ve had previously is that they will not repair a puncture on a Y rated tyre, regardless of where the puncture occurs. However they are stricter on the load ratings than UK.

 

[RUM4MO]

I didn't even know until right now that there was a Pilot and non-Pilot Alpin 5. More research for me I guess.

Edit: From a quick look, I don't see anything except Pilot Alpin 5 in 225/40 R18.

I've just checked again, and yes you are correct, I'm not sure if I had miss read one of your postings or I just wanted to warn you to make sure that you went for the Pilot version as quite a lot of Alpins are available in Alpin or Pilot Alpin in certain performance car sizes, so one thing less for you to worry about, sorry for the confusion, some times too much information is worse that not enough, but as you work through all the issues maybe aided with all the info handed in to this thread, you will be well on your way to making the best choice and be prepared in every way. So hopefully tyre size, speed option and load option sorted, alloy wheel size and model sorted, normal rubber valves are best, "air" your choice - all you will need is new black valve covers if your tyre/wheel place fit the green - to denote N2, or maybe the world has run out of green valve covers when filling with N2!!

I hope that you get somewhere to take on your choices as opposed to what they want to sell you, very annoying!

 

[Mikertroid]

Okay, looks like I’m about to go for a Set of DEZENT TZ 7.5x18 ET51 with Pirelli Cinturato All Season tyres for my ST 4drive.

Will these need spigots or new bolts? They’re a TUV approved size, so should be all okay, unless anyone knows otherwise?

thanks!

 

[RUM4MO]

Okay, looks like I’m about to go for a Set of DEZENT TZ 7.5x18 ET51 with Pirelli Cinturato All Season tyres for my ST 4drive.

Will these need spigots or new bolts? They’re a TUV approved size, so should be all okay, unless anyone knows otherwise?

thanks!

Maybe look up the manufacturer's website for details. If spigot rings and tapered bolts are required, alloy wheel sellers tend to supply them within the package price.

Alloy wheels | DEZENT Leichtmetallräder

Alloy wheels for every situation. Whether sporty or elegant - we are sure that here you will acquire a taste for it.

www.dezent-wheels.com

 

[Mikertroid]

Maybe look up the manufacturer's website for details. If spigot rings and tapered bolts are required, alloy wheel sellers tend to supply them within the package price.

It's listed as an OE wheel on their website, whether that means it'll fit on without new spigots and bolts, I Don't know.

 

[RUM4MO]

They are listed to have the correct centre bore, so no spigot rings needed, if you look at that model's certificate and translate it, it might clear up the "bolt seat needed" issue, it sounds like when you pick the "car specific" wheel the SEAT centre trim will also fit!

 

[black_sheep]

I have Dezent rims, and they need spigot rings/conical bolts.

However, as per the advice above use the contact section to ask a question specifically or put the info into produce the Tuv certificate which may specify.

 

[Mikertroid]

Looking further, they claim it uses the existing fitting kit....

 

[Mikertroid]

I know you reckon 225/40 R18 on 7.5J rims would be a winter tyre recommendation from reading this thread, but would 235/40 R18 on 8J rims be okay? Looking to have all season tyres.

 

[BigJase88]

I know you reckon 225/40 R18 on 7.5J rims would be a winter tyre recommendation from reading this thread, but would 235/40 R18 on 8J rims be okay? Looking to have all season tyres.

225/40/18 are fine on 8J alloys

Thats what i run 225/40/18 8J ET45, there is no stretch to the tyres. 235/40/18 are pointless. Uncommon size with higher ticket price

Example


https://imgbb.com/

 

[Mikertroid]

Just to say my Dezent TZ 18 X 7.5J ET51 Fit perfectly. Nicer ride too.

 

[Plaidy]

My Matte black RC32s in 18 X 7.5J ET51 turned out well also. The only thing is that the copper cupra center caps don't fit. They holes are 61mm vs 56mm, I guess. The black cap for the lug with the lock on each wheel won't go on either but oh well.

...and yes, a noticeable improvement to the ride.