just a downpipe is required that is required for a stage 2. Just like on the TFSI. however the intake and intercooler would be advisable
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just a downpipe is required that is required for a stage 2. Just like on the TFSI. however the intake and intercooler would be advisable
the intercooler on the standard setup is not very good TBH so I would always advise an upgrade for over 200Bhp
on what basis are you saying this. I dont doubt that your correct, but have you based that on actual logs or forum hear say.
I'll be logging mine when i collect it to see what the intake temps are like on WOT runs incl recovery, then ill compare to stage 1/stage 2 and hen decide if it is required.
For guys a bit reluctant to install a new intercooler, you always have the option of fitting water/.methanol injection.(ALOT cheaper than an intercooler to buy and install)
You dont even need to use methanol if you dont want to, insteads just use distilled water for the cooling effect. if your after power then use a methanol mix with distilled water for the 'increased octane' effect.
I'll be logging mine when i collect it to see what the intake temps are like on WOT runs incl recovery, then ill compare to stage 1/stage 2 and hen decide if it is required.
For guys a bit reluctant to install a new intercooler, you always have the option of fitting water/.methanol injection.(ALOT cheaper than an intercooler to buy and install)
You dont even need to use methanol if you dont want to, insteads just use distilled water for the cooling effect. if your after power then use a methanol mix with distilled water for the 'increased octane' effect.
Can,t see the point of just upgrading the downpipe but i know your views on this are different to mine.
my views and experiences are that the cat back provides no gains, and to much noise. Some people dont mind that though, i didnt mind it on my ST, but wished i never bothered on my octavia.
The fact is, you dont need a TBE for stage 2, its only the downpipe (predominantly to reduce EGT's). so advising people that they need to spend an additional £500 on a cat back as well isnt on IMO.
its the same deal with the intake. Its a very good idea and makes very good gains, BUT it isnt a pre-requisite, and can be fitted at any time with no ECU tweaks at all. The only mod that requires a bespoke map written for it to take it into account is the downpipe and thats due to removal of the pre-cat and the reduction in size of the second cat.
The intercooler, cat back and intake can all be added onto a standard car with no requirement for a remap, or even onto a stage 2 car with no change to the map.
but as always everyone has their own views, mine is as above as i was advised i need a full TBE for stage 2, bought the whole system but only fitted the downpipe after i found out it was incorrect. i eneded up fitting the cat back at a later date when no one wanted to buy it from me. With the octavia i never fitted the cat back until the car was fully stage 3 tuned with every other engine/chassis mod.
The fact is, you dont need a TBE for stage 2, its only the downpipe (predominantly to reduce EGT's). so advising people that they need to spend an additional £500 on a cat back as well isnt on IMO.
its the same deal with the intake. Its a very good idea and makes very good gains, BUT it isnt a pre-requisite, and can be fitted at any time with no ECU tweaks at all. The only mod that requires a bespoke map written for it to take it into account is the downpipe and thats due to removal of the pre-cat and the reduction in size of the second cat.
The intercooler, cat back and intake can all be added onto a standard car with no requirement for a remap, or even onto a stage 2 car with no change to the map.
but as always everyone has their own views, mine is as above as i was advised i need a full TBE for stage 2, bought the whole system but only fitted the downpipe after i found out it was incorrect. i eneded up fitting the cat back at a later date when no one wanted to buy it from me. With the octavia i never fitted the cat back until the car was fully stage 3 tuned with every other engine/chassis mod.
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if the cat back gives no performance gain then why would it be needed for stage 2 then? IMO that backs up what ive been saying. its a nice to have. Mainly for guys who want some more exhaust note from their cars. But for guys who want stealth power with none of the draw backs of a full TBE the downpipe is perfect for them.
My main issue with the cat back is it makes it obvious to everyone for miles that you are speeding or accelerating hard way before you actually arrive. I found i actually drove slower with after having the Cat back fitted.
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Just noticed you said if the downpipe includes a race cat.
They all come with an uprated performance cat. im talking 200 cell cats, which are enough to be MOT complaint but still throw up a warning light after fitting if your not mapped.
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A full TBE will perform better than an aftermarket downpipe/cat/oe cat back system as its been designed for higher flow rates from scratch, so personally if i,m putting on an aftermarket exhaust i would go for a full system. The aftermarket downpipe mated to an o/e catback will compromise flow rates, as its being constricted by a resonator and backbox on the o/e system. Granted, the benefits of a full TBE over an aftermarket downpipe/cat/oe cat back system may be quite small and would be a viable alternative and would save you a few hundred £££,s as well.
agreed. the saved £££s is the important factor to me.
Consider if you were to buy the downpipe(£550), and intake(£250) and stage 2(£600) map you would make more power/torque for what would equate to less cost than if you were to install just the full TBE(£1000) and stage 2(£600) map.
Consider if you were to buy the downpipe(£550), and intake(£250) and stage 2(£600) map you would make more power/torque for what would equate to less cost than if you were to install just the full TBE(£1000) and stage 2(£600) map.
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basing it on previous experience mate........ I have done the logging of temps using VAG COM and SCAN gauge with previous cars i have tuned. Granted I have mostly done derv tuning but I cant see the stock one on these being good for the gains I was looking at with a stage 2.
I may be wrong and might do some logging before and after to see
I may be wrong and might do some logging before and after to see
I agree 90% of cars intercoolers aren't good enough to cope with large hikes in power. that said many many guys on the tfsi run upto 260Hp (k03 TFSI) and 330Hp (TFSI) on the standard cooler before uprating it. that normally works fine and even the tuners only recommend for stage 2+ remaps.
this one might actually be ok, who knows, id change it or add WMi anyway lol.
i think water meth injection(WMI) is the way to go with these. Plus the fact that on the fabia i think theres issues with the design of it making it complicated for an uprated cooler from what i gather. forge have a fabia in as we speak trying to sort something out
Rainstorm4
Guest
guyz, i m quite sure, as its simple physics, that,
fitting a decat, on its own without a dp is useless,
same goes with the dp on its own,
have u heard the phrase, u re as powerfull as ur weakest in the chain?
i think same goes here, u re as wide as ur narrowest point?!
p.s. someone said, the decat will give an extra 10bhp, that is true only in the case of having fitted a full wider system except the decat, where the oem decat is constraining these 10 bhp!
fitting a decat, on its own without a dp is useless,
same goes with the dp on its own,
have u heard the phrase, u re as powerfull as ur weakest in the chain?
i think same goes here, u re as wide as ur narrowest point?!
p.s. someone said, the decat will give an extra 10bhp, that is true only in the case of having fitted a full wider system except the decat, where the oem decat is constraining these 10 bhp!
no one has mentioned decat!! but even if they had you would be wrong. as simple physics say that if there is less of a restriction to the flow of a fluid, you will therefore have an increased flow for the same effort as before.
Its the cat resrticting the flow
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DAMNIT!!! Now I am really tempted to crack on with getting the DP!!!!!!! Shiiiiaaaaaatttttt!!!!!! Why oh why must there be so much temptation????!!!!!!
![[:@]](/forums/styles/seatcupra/oldforumsmileys/furious.gif "Furious [:@]")
Right, just to sum up everything - bare minimum requirements for stage 2 is an intake and downpipe? Or is the Forge twintercooler essential aswell? It will give 10-15% more power than stage 1 so we're looking at around 230-240bhp. Another quick question is can I buy the downpipe + race cat first and then the cat back later? I think i might skip stage 1 altogether and just go stage 2! meaning I'll get roughly a 50-60bhp increase ... :O
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