Ouch - Broken ECU

[Dunga]

Hi,

I have just been told that my car (1.6 sport) needs a new ECU! I think my pocket is going to hurt for a while from this £460 + fitting hit!

The problem began with intermitent starting, it would fire up but stall after 2-3 seconds. Also at times it felt like it was lacking performance (I know it's not a cupra!) eventually the starting got worse and wouldn't fire up at all. so I got it taken to the garage who ruled out it being an imobiliser problem that I suspected/hoped.

I'm really quite annoyed at this for a number of reasons:
The car is only 4 years old 52K miles, things like this should last much longer...
I have to get a dealer to look at it, as only they can check the diagnostics.
I Can't find a cheap replacement anywhere. (

Why does stuff like this always happen to me?!?
I have only just finished paying for the car and was looking forward to spending money on something else.

I was thinking of upgrading to a Cupra this summer but I'm really starting to doubt the long term reliability\build quality of these cars. this is mainly due to the dents and stone chips everywhere (white scratches on a black car) the RUST on the sill where the door seals join and squeeking interior.

Andy (having a bad week)

 

[JBS Sales]

Hello there

Shame the car is not covered under warranty.

But give customer service a call.

They may be able to help you a little in the way of cost.

I have worked in warranty before and with a little nice few words like "LOVE THE CAR , BUT" will help you alot.

Give it a try , what do you have to loose?

 

[danregs]

hi mate.
what engine do you have in your 1.6 sport? (as in engine code)
i am currently (for tuning reasons) trying to cross reference the ecu on my 1.6 AUR engine in my sport with other cars. if you look on the top of your ecu then it should have the code 6K0 906 033 B ??
if you give me your email address then i will let you know when i find out what other cars use the 906 033 hardware. then you may be able to pick up a used one?
i would imagine that if they are gonna charge you for the whole ecu then it must be the actual ecu unit thats bust and not just the eprom (chip containing engine management software). so if you can pick up any 906 033 unit then the 6K0 and B are irelevant as you will be able to put your eprom into the ecu.

if anyone has any info on the 906 033 ecu or knows what other vag cars it was used on then please can you let us know! i THINK it was used in the mk4 golf and the 99-01 skoda fabia..... but i might be wrong

dan

 

[JBS Sales]

Think 6K0 usually means it is Seat part only.

Have checked with Skoda , VW and Audi that is not a part number recognised.

It is Ibiza and Cordoba only.
Then you have to have the same engine code.
Then there is chassis breaks.

It is not as easy as that.There are usually LOADS of different ECU codes and they have to match perfect.

 

[danregs]

ah ok well i DID think the same as you BUT i was informed by a VW dealership that the 6K0 simply means that the part is for a Seat. he said as long as the 906 033 matches then the hardware is the same. the B is apparently just the software on the eprom. so a 906 033 A is the same hardware but with different software to the 906 033 B. and the 6k0 906 033 B would be interchangeable with the 1N 906 033 * as long as you plugged in the eprom from the 6K0 906 033 B.

i am not sayin you are wrong bud, i would like to get to the bottom of this!

cheers mate

 

[JBS Sales]

Well I have never heard of that.
I asked the technician and he said the same.

There are sooo many ECU`s to choose from , that I would not have thought that this is true.But hey I could be wrong (you know being female , we rae never wrong)
But I have worked as a Service Manager and parts manager for 5 years and I have never heard that one berfore.

Would be good though if someone could say ye or ne!

Thanks
Sarah

 

[danregs]

well i gotta say that women ARE usually right! (sorry to be a traitor guys!)

and i would be inclined to believe YOU sarah, over a dealer, cos they arent exactly well known for passing on accurate information!

saying that though, i have just looked up the part number on my vw ETKA system (which doesnt cover Seat parts) and it recognises the part number as a 1.6 MPi ecu. so i'm further confused

like sarah said, if someone could give a definite answer then that'd be cool, cheers

 

[Sim]

search for a 06A 906 033 it is the same as 6K0 906 033
i can help getting the stock software if that helps

 

[danregs]

cheers mate. thats what i was told before

and the "B" or other letter at the end at the end is the software on the eprom??

dan

 

[Sim]

According to my defective knowledge of these ECUS "906 033" means the hardware number and the letter(s) at the end is/are the software yes. You can interchange software (if you can do it ) between the same hardware. I am not familiar with the (Siemens) 906 033, but the (Bosch) 906 032 has two chips which should be reprogrammed with the correct contents. One is the Flash ROM which has the software (including calibration tables/etc) and one is the serial EEPROM which holds some information used by the software (f.eg Immobilizer data, adaption values, fault codes, etc)... Reflashing software only may not work in every cases. If that's the situation, the EEPROM contents have to be matched to the new software, too.

 

[Sim]

search for a 06A 906 033 it is the same as 6K0 906 033
i can help getting the stock software if that helps

06B 906 033 x = Fabia 1.2

 

[danregs]

brilliant. thaks for that sim. what you have explained to us is exactly how i had understood it before. you have been a great help in clearing the matter up so thank you!

you are obviously very familiar with ecu's. it is odd that the 06B 906 033 x is the fabia 1.2. i mean obviously the 06B means it is the fabia (just as the 6K0 means its the ibiza). but the 906 033 on the ibiza is used for a 1.6 engine! i suppose you could run any size engine as long as the software was correct.

i havent taken my ecu apart yet to see what chips are in it. but i know for a fact that it cannot be flashed via the ODB port. so does this give you any clues as to what is inside that would need to be changed for tuning? (as you seem to know a lot more than me about this!). i am in my 3rd year of an electronic engineering degree so i am no stranger to rom and eproms, etc

 

[Sim]

I have got basic knowledge of the 032 ECUs, as i'm also quite interested in this topic. I got a 20VT ibiza, i've managed to modify some of the maps succesfully (practically i did my own "chip").

i suppose you could run any size engine as long as the software was correct.

I'm not expert, but this may be the case. F.eg 2000 Ibiza Cupra with the AQX engine and 2001 Ibiza Cupra R (AYP engine code) runs the old ME7.1 engine management (only some maps are different), while 2001 Plain Cupra (AYP engine, too) runs a different ME7.5 engine management, practically in the same hardware. That particular ME7.1 software (which is used in the older 20VT ibiza and R ibiza) is also used in the Audi S4 V6 2.7T (diff ecu# however), just with different settings (lots of maps are the same however).

but i know for a fact that it cannot be flashed via the ODB port. so does this give you any clues as to what is inside that would need to be changed for tuning?

Is that for sure? As far as i know OBD flashing capability is a kind of requirement for new cars, or am i wrong? BTW i cannot flash ECUs through OBD either, so desoldering chips is the only way for "us". I guess you'd have to replace the Flash contents. If you can get a replacement ECU which has the same kind of immo (Immo2?) then reprogramming EEPROM should not be neccessary, but if the new ecu is from a totally different car and/or had a newer immo system (Immo3?), it may be possible that you'll need to do the EEPROM, too. I am not 100% sure though. (yet ) Just be prepared.

 

[danregs]

Is that for sure? As far as i know OBD flashing capability is a kind of requirement for new cars, or am i wrong? BTW i cannot flash ECUs through OBD either, so desoldering chips is the only way for "us". I guess you'd have to replace the Flash contents. If you can get a replacement ECU which has the same kind of immo (Immo2?) then reprogramming EEPROM should not be neccessary, but if the new ecu is from a totally different car and/or had a newer immo system (Immo3?), it may be possible that you'll need to do the EEPROM, too. I am not 100% sure though. (yet ) Just be prepared.

i have approached a couple of tuning companies, who have both said that the contents of the ecu on the 1.6 sport are unable to be flashed. this leads me to assume that the software is held on a rom chip??

as for the original question, dunga, if the immo system is definately held on the eprom then you should be able to source the ecu from any VAG car that uses a 906 033 and then transplant your eprom (if the immo system is different) and transplant your ROM chip? correct me if i am wrong sim! this may not be within your capabilities, and you may want to pay out the cash to have it replaced, especially as there is a fair chance of having difficulties! if it were me then i would definately give it a go rather than pay out hundreds of £!

i'm finding this whole ecu business very interesting. i think i'm gonna have to go get an ecu and get it into the workshop and have a fiddle! around christmas time i've taken on the challenge of building a complete engine management system from scratch for a formula one car we are building to race next year. i think i may go along the lines of the megasquirt EFi system, if you have heard of that?

 

[JBS Sales]

www.custom-code.co.uk

Try them

 

[danregs]

thanks sarah! will take a look

 

[Sim]

In the case the hardware is the same 906 033 and you replace all (ep)roms, it should be identical to the old one. I would not suggest this transplant for novice though.

 

[danregs]

In the case the hardware is the same 906 033 and you replace all (ep)roms, it should be identical to the old one.

thats what i thought i think i'm finally understanding this a bit better now! thanks sim

I would not suggest this transplant for novice though.

i wouldnt recommend this to a novice either. i'm not exactly a novice, but i'm certainly no expert! i'm gonna have a play anyway i think!!!

 

[Dunga]

Wow I didn't think this thread would get quite as much attention!

Yeah these expensive jobs do tend to occur just out of warranty! Im sure a lot of engineering goes into making sure this is the case!

Well the engine is a 1.6 8v (100 hp) fitted to a 2000 Xreg, im not sure of anything beyond that but assume it is the same as yours Dan.

Well I don't know any of the ID numbers from the unit and can't really find out as it is 30 miles from me at the moment, I didn't look before because I thought it was going to be an imobiliser problem.

The actual SEAT part code is 6K0906019.

I was told that a number of SEAT models are fitted with ECUs which need initilising in situ i.e. making them uniqie to each vehicle, I guess this would rule out any swapping of ECUs. Luckily this model does not have this issue.

I phoned an independent company that supplies ECUs they said that "this family of units are very common but this exact one is currently not available" so missed out on getting a cheaper replacement. ( I assume from this that there are a lot of little changes making ECU's from different engines non compatible and making us pay a premium!

I did look into replacing the eproms etc as I work for a company full of electronics gurus (I'm not I must add) but in the end to save me time and effort I decided to allow the garage to order a new unit. This way if it turns out not to be the ECU then it's their problem....I know its a lot of cash but I need my car for work and the sooner it's sorted the better.

I guess in the future I will try and get the old one looked at and if It can be fixed use it for a little experimentation (tuning) or just sell it on to someone else who has the same unfortunate problem.

I expect that with the cost involved getting any serious bhp from this motor I will opt to buy either a Cupra or performance Jap for the reliability.

Just out of interest, as you seem to know you stuff, how difficult is it to install an ECU in this era of vehicles, are the just plug and play? or do you need equipment to initilise them and ensure they are working correctly?

Andy

 

[Sim]

The immo in the ecu has to be matched with the immo in the instrument cluster - that's all.