no, I ment between the 150 & 160. The 130 comes with a smaller VNT17 turbo (even though the 150 & 160 is also a VNT17).
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PD130 injectors
- Thread starter stoneyfordNI
- Start date
IIRC not straight bolt-on but close. it would still be a good idea to replace the intercooler though.
Hmm, those injectors are only £975 + VAT if you don't go down the fitting/remap route. If I got a set I'd be wanting Jabbasport to fit them for me, then tweak the map at the same time. 
I like that.... "ONLY" £975 + vat....
I like that.... "ONLY" £975 + vat....
devonutopia said:Hmm, those injectors are only £975 + VAT if you don't go down the fitting/remap route. If I got a set I'd be wanting Jabbasport to fit them for me, then tweak the map at the same time.
I like that.... "ONLY" £975 + vat....
Need to consider that they cost almost twice that just 6 months ago.
Diesel_Monkey
Guest
Gasket thicknesses
StoneyfordNI and others,
I'm new to the forum and work on VW's but I hope you dont mind me chipping in from time to time and asking questions also.
StoneyfordNI, I'm from Northern Ireland to as it happens. Your Seat is very impressive but cant remember ever seeing it in person, or have it pass me on the road etc...
I can help you with your question about the different head gaskets for the TDi's.
When the engine blocks are cast and machined at the factory, every single engine block will have a different height from the centreline of the crankshaft to the top of the block (if you go down to microns). This is due to many things... The temperature of the machine shop, the temperature of the cutting tool, the condition of the cutting tool, the quality of the cast block before machining etc....
There are 3 different gasket thicknesses for the following reason. When the pistons are installed, the projection of each piston crown is measured above the cylinder block, and the correct gasket used to ensure the pistons dont strike the valves. Because each block has a different height from the centreline of the crank, this will mean that the piston projection will be different from engine to engine, as the cranks and rods are the same. There may be a very very small difference in the overall height of the piston, but the gasket thickness used will take that into accont anyway.
The 1 hole gasket is the thinnest, and with each added notch on the gasket, this means the gaskets thickness increases 0.08mm
Its also very important that the correct gasket is used as it has a big effect on power and efficiency. Using a gasket that is too thick will mean the injector nozzle will be sitting to high from the combustion bowl in the piston, and if a thinner gasket is used by accident, its very likely the pistons will strike the valves.
Every diesel engine that I know of has 3 / 4 different thicknesses of head gasket. To have 1 gasket thickness only would require an encredibly accurate casting, manufacturing and machining operation which would cost more for an engine manufacturer than simply having 3 different thicknesses of shims riveted togeather.
You shouldnt let head skimming confuse you with regard to head gasket thickness on a VW diesel. By the book, all VW Diesel heads are not supposed to be skimmed at all, because of the very close relation between the valves and the pistons, and also because of the hydraulic tappets. But no doubt any engine rebuilder would be more than happy to skim a TDi head and use a thicker gasket to allow for the material removed. This will effect the squish area in the cylinder, increase dead space above the pistons and decrease power and efficiency. The injector nozzle will not be at the correct depth in the combustion bowl either.
But this shouldnt concern you since you have a young PD engine, you dont need to worry about warped heads or anything but I thought I would explain the reason for the 3 gasket thicknesses.
As for the injectors, KERMA had posted information about an upgraded PD nozzle just like the nozzles from Fratteli Bosio for the VE pump TDi's. I hadnt heard of them being released yet.
Does anyone know where Allard are getting the upgraded nozzles or are they changing the nozzles ? Unit injectors, very specialised of course. The injectors are what hold the PD's back, currently more power can be had with a VE pump and Race520 nozzles, with the correct software, turbo and intercooler of course.
Have Allard actually tested these for 270 hp with a remap ? If so, I think that would make it the most powerful 1.9 TDi yet. Highest I know of to date is a mk4 Golf, 251 or 252 bhp (flywheel), that was a VE pump engine, nt a PD.
Hope this helps. DM
StoneyfordNI and others,
I'm new to the forum and work on VW's but I hope you dont mind me chipping in from time to time and asking questions also.
StoneyfordNI, I'm from Northern Ireland to as it happens. Your Seat is very impressive but cant remember ever seeing it in person, or have it pass me on the road etc...
I can help you with your question about the different head gaskets for the TDi's.
When the engine blocks are cast and machined at the factory, every single engine block will have a different height from the centreline of the crankshaft to the top of the block (if you go down to microns). This is due to many things... The temperature of the machine shop, the temperature of the cutting tool, the condition of the cutting tool, the quality of the cast block before machining etc....
There are 3 different gasket thicknesses for the following reason. When the pistons are installed, the projection of each piston crown is measured above the cylinder block, and the correct gasket used to ensure the pistons dont strike the valves. Because each block has a different height from the centreline of the crank, this will mean that the piston projection will be different from engine to engine, as the cranks and rods are the same. There may be a very very small difference in the overall height of the piston, but the gasket thickness used will take that into accont anyway.
The 1 hole gasket is the thinnest, and with each added notch on the gasket, this means the gaskets thickness increases 0.08mm
Its also very important that the correct gasket is used as it has a big effect on power and efficiency. Using a gasket that is too thick will mean the injector nozzle will be sitting to high from the combustion bowl in the piston, and if a thinner gasket is used by accident, its very likely the pistons will strike the valves.
Every diesel engine that I know of has 3 / 4 different thicknesses of head gasket. To have 1 gasket thickness only would require an encredibly accurate casting, manufacturing and machining operation which would cost more for an engine manufacturer than simply having 3 different thicknesses of shims riveted togeather.
You shouldnt let head skimming confuse you with regard to head gasket thickness on a VW diesel. By the book, all VW Diesel heads are not supposed to be skimmed at all, because of the very close relation between the valves and the pistons, and also because of the hydraulic tappets. But no doubt any engine rebuilder would be more than happy to skim a TDi head and use a thicker gasket to allow for the material removed. This will effect the squish area in the cylinder, increase dead space above the pistons and decrease power and efficiency. The injector nozzle will not be at the correct depth in the combustion bowl either.
But this shouldnt concern you since you have a young PD engine, you dont need to worry about warped heads or anything but I thought I would explain the reason for the 3 gasket thicknesses.
As for the injectors, KERMA had posted information about an upgraded PD nozzle just like the nozzles from Fratteli Bosio for the VE pump TDi's. I hadnt heard of them being released yet.
Does anyone know where Allard are getting the upgraded nozzles or are they changing the nozzles ? Unit injectors, very specialised of course. The injectors are what hold the PD's back, currently more power can be had with a VE pump and Race520 nozzles, with the correct software, turbo and intercooler of course.
Have Allard actually tested these for 270 hp with a remap ? If so, I think that would make it the most powerful 1.9 TDi yet. Highest I know of to date is a mk4 Golf, 251 or 252 bhp (flywheel), that was a VE pump engine, nt a PD.
Hope this helps. DM
Allards injectors have been tested on a car with i think it was a VT7 turbo .They have a map ready to use for anyone interested. Kerma have been going on about releasing the uprated PD nozzles now ever since about mid 2005 but they still havent got them on sale yet for some reason.
250 bhp at the flywheel can be passed on a 1.9 PD TDI engine now.If i had got my rolled ibiza remapped to take into account the propane injection that engine would have been about 260bhp +. With the Audi i am getting in march i hope to be over 300 bhp in about 12 months time funds permitting
250 bhp at the flywheel can be passed on a 1.9 PD TDI engine now.If i had got my rolled ibiza remapped to take into account the propane injection that engine would have been about 260bhp +. With the Audi i am getting in march i hope to be over 300 bhp in about 12 months time funds permitting
Diesel_Monkey
Guest
devonmikey
I have a question about the turbo's used on the Seats. I keep seeing models simply, VT5, VT7 etc....
I dont want to assume that this is simply a Garrett VNT 15 or Garrett VNT17 (or should I say GT17V).
Could anyone explain the differences here between the Seat turbos and the VW ones, or is it the same model of garrett turbo with a different model number.
Matt
I have a question about the turbo's used on the Seats. I keep seeing models simply, VT5, VT7 etc....
I dont want to assume that this is simply a Garrett VNT 15 or Garrett VNT17 (or should I say GT17V).
Could anyone explain the differences here between the Seat turbos and the VW ones, or is it the same model of garrett turbo with a different model number.
Matt
Allards use hybrid Garret turbos. On my ibiza i had a VT2 which was basically a VNT 20 turbo put in a VNT 17 shell.See here for the Allard turbo range.Diesel_Monkey said:
http://www.allardmotorcompany.com/p...-seat-skoda-anc-vnc-garrett-turbochargers.asp
Diesel_Monkey
Guest
I see, a VNT 17 modified to run VNT20 spec should be able to go to 250 hp, why have they listed the VT2 as only 220 hp ?
One more quick question, may I ask what spec the VT3,4,5,6 & 7 is ? The website doesnt go into any detail on this.
thanks, Matt
One more quick question, may I ask what spec the VT3,4,5,6 & 7 is ? The website doesnt go into any detail on this.
thanks, Matt
Diesel_Monkey
Guest
I'll do that, but I'd hoped to run a Holset turbo, the Garrett VNT's seem to be quite unreliable. They seem to fail much more than the old wastegate turbos. Maybe a special build would be to a better standard. I think i've a fair idea what the 3,4,5 etc... is, the hybrid turbos are listed for 1.9ltr, 2.0 and 2.5 litre. They must be for the bigger engines, still, it would be nice to get specific information on them.
Anyone here had any problems with the VNT's or the Allard VTs ?
Matt
Anyone here had any problems with the VNT's or the Allard VTs ?
Matt
220 is probably a realistic limit given not many other mods with that turbo. I run the same Allard hybrid in my PD130 converted Fabia, and dyno'd at 221hp fly / 190hp ATW depending on the roller.
This is with an FMIC from the same company. It won't go above 221 now without something a little special, i.e one of their bigger turbos or injectors. I feel with injectors though the VNT20 hybrid will go further. I'm only using the fact it was able to push 2 bar consistently to back this up, and at this pressure though, the oem pd130 injectors couldn't cope, so power dropped. Backed down to 1.8 bar and its OK. Hoping new injectors and a remap might see in the region of 230+?
I didn't realise the race PD nozzles used to be circa 2k? EEEEEK!
Maxcars - those injectors are standard (AFAIK) pd130 injectors for the pd100, which combined with the oem vnt-17 from the pd130 will see 180bhp+ from that engine, which is impressive.
This is with an FMIC from the same company. It won't go above 221 now without something a little special, i.e one of their bigger turbos or injectors. I feel with injectors though the VNT20 hybrid will go further. I'm only using the fact it was able to push 2 bar consistently to back this up, and at this pressure though, the oem pd130 injectors couldn't cope, so power dropped. Backed down to 1.8 bar and its OK. Hoping new injectors and a remap might see in the region of 230+?
I didn't realise the race PD nozzles used to be circa 2k? EEEEEK!
Maxcars - those injectors are standard (AFAIK) pd130 injectors for the pd100, which combined with the oem vnt-17 from the pd130 will see 180bhp+ from that engine, which is impressive.
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your ment to be at work mate NOT surfing the web.devonutopia said:220 is probably a realistic limit given not many other mods with that turbo. I run the same Allard hybrid in my PD130 converted Fabia, and dyno'd at 221hp fly / 190hp ATW depending on the roller.
This is with an FMIC from the same company. It won't go above 221 now without something a little special, i.e one of their bigger turbos or injectors. I feel with injectors though the VNT20 hybrid will go further. I'm only using the fact it was able to push 2 bar consistently to back this up, and at this pressure though, the oem pd130 injectors couldn't cope, so power dropped. Backed down to 1.8 bar and its OK. Hoping new injectors and a remap might see in the region of 230+?
I didn't realise the race PD nozzles used to be circa 2k? EEEEEK!
Maxcars - those injectors are standard (AFAIK) pd130 injectors for the pd100, which combined with the oem vnt-17 from the pd130 will see 180bhp+ from that engine, which is impressive.
devonmikeyboy said:your ment to be at work mate NOT surfing the web.
But when you're being made redundant in 6 weeks ish, and all the work you had to has been centralised and moved away - There's kind of sod all to do all day, and with regards to using the internet at work, its more like, "Don't give a f***!"
Perhaps I should be job hunting rather than being on cupranet though.
devonutopia said:But when you're being made redundant in 6 weeks ish, and all the work you had to has been centralised and moved away - There's kind of sod all to do all day, and with regards to using the internet at work, its more like, "Don't give a f***!"
Perhaps I should be job hunting rather than being on cupranet though.
Upload that Cv on the Jobsites mate - and wait for the calls
blimey all this talk of , turbo this, vnt that and allards this.
Will i not simply be satisfied with a Jabba Remapped 130tdi with airfilter, intake and front mount. Would have thought that would be a fairly good package. am i right?? 190 bhp and 300 lb/ft roughly??
Will i not simply be satisfied with a Jabba Remapped 130tdi with airfilter, intake and front mount. Would have thought that would be a fairly good package. am i right?? 190 bhp and 300 lb/ft roughly??
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