wheres the best/cheapest place to get one of these for my FR...im located in wolverhampton...
much abliged
much abliged
stealth Shelf
- Thread starter AdamRoutley
- Start date
You don't. You just don't. Ever.
The only reason to buy a Stealth Shelf is to put 6x9's or other speakers on the rear parcel shelf... and that's just not a good idea. There is no need. The rear speakers in any system are the lowest priority and the least important part of the system. They are there for rear fill and a little ambiance, that's all.
Adding a set of speakers to the shelf will drag the sound behind you. This will ruin the sound stage and create a very un-natural sound. Think about this... when you're at home listening to your HiFi, do you have the speakers in front of you, or behind you? And when you want to enjoy that music, do you sit facing the speakers, or do you turn around so they are aimed at the back of your head?
The standard location, heck, even the standard speakers are more than good enough for most ICE systems. There is no need to replace them until everything else is done. And there is definitely, without doubt, no need to add yet more speakers into a terrible location at the back of the car.
Also, if you ever decide you want a sub in the boot, the rear speakers will ruin that sound output and will potentially get physically damaged by the large amounts of air below it forcing them in directions they don't want to move.
The only reason to buy a Stealth Shelf is to put 6x9's or other speakers on the rear parcel shelf... and that's just not a good idea. There is no need. The rear speakers in any system are the lowest priority and the least important part of the system. They are there for rear fill and a little ambiance, that's all.
Adding a set of speakers to the shelf will drag the sound behind you. This will ruin the sound stage and create a very un-natural sound. Think about this... when you're at home listening to your HiFi, do you have the speakers in front of you, or behind you? And when you want to enjoy that music, do you sit facing the speakers, or do you turn around so they are aimed at the back of your head?
The standard location, heck, even the standard speakers are more than good enough for most ICE systems. There is no need to replace them until everything else is done. And there is definitely, without doubt, no need to add yet more speakers into a terrible location at the back of the car.
Also, if you ever decide you want a sub in the boot, the rear speakers will ruin that sound output and will potentially get physically damaged by the large amounts of air below it forcing them in directions they don't want to move.
as i agree with some of the points robm is sayin...i produce music and also feel there are certain benifits 2 be had from rear speakers especially lacking mid range...in the leon the highs and lows are rightly adequate enough bout the mid range r seriously lacking...i dont intend to have a sub, as what you gain from them oppsed to what you lose isnt worth it...ie emphasis on the low frequences obviously and more depth to the music...but having a sub would mean updating all the tweeters, and inevitably everything beginsto rattle due to the air and vibrations...hence the reasons for the 6x9s...
much appreciated are your comments rob...but i feel its down to personal opinion.. but hey thanks again
much appreciated are your comments rob...but i feel its down to personal opinion.. but hey thanks again
as i agree with some of the points robm is sayin...i produce music and also feel there are certain benifits 2 be had from rear speakers especially lacking mid range...in the leon the highs and lows are rightly adequate enough bout the mid range r seriously lacking...i dont intend to have a sub, as what you gain from them oppsed to what you lose isnt worth it...ie emphasis on the low frequences obviously and more depth to the music...but having a sub would mean updating all the tweeters, and inevitably everything beginsto rattle due to the air and vibrations...hence the reasons for the 6x9s...
much appreciated are your comments rob...but i feel its down to personal opinion.. but hey thanks again
If you are worried about the lack of midrange, then get some kick builds made for the front, sound deaden the front doors, get a decent set of 3-way speakers up front and a suitable amp to run them all.
Adding another set of speakers to the rear shelf will not ever improve one specific area of the sound. 6x9's are not subs, or mid range speakers. They are just odd shaped full-range speakers so they wont do you any favours at all. They will 'confuse' the sound as now you have three individual sets of speakers all trying to do the same thing, in different ways, from different locations, with different distances from your ears coming from different directions. Even if you remove the rear door speakers, you'll have speakers far behind you at the far back of the car and speakers in front of you, both trying to do the same thing.
As a music producer I assume you are obviously very clued up on sound stages and imaging, so you'll know why it's so important to get it right.
I have nothing to gain by giving you this advice, so don't take it the wrong way, I'm just trying to help you get the results you desire. And the proposed solution simply will not help.
I've got a stealth self with 6*9s in and it totally transformed the sound in the car. totally picking up where the standard speakers made your ears bleed. Mind you they are connected to an amp to. I've also got a sub in the boot thats in phase with the speakers on the shelf. So the air moves togother, (plus the sub is sealed and servo controlled!! Eq'ing the sound correctly wont drag the sound behind you! Of course all this depends on matching whats there to start with. I only draw back of the stealth shelf is the weight. DONT get one that lifts with the boot lid.
Got a similar set up and i got no complaints about it. I have no sub but the 6x9's are hooked up to an amp. Suppose it depends how much you are into your stereo system and how much you have to spend. If you are looking for audiophile quality I suppose its something you gradually build up as required till you are happy with the system. IMHO for a reletivly cheap enhancement i dont see anything wrong with this set up or try a high powered headunit or amp through the existing speakers. Alpine headunits have the i perzonalize feature that lets you tweak with the soundstage and timing if thats your bag.
Reasonable 4ch amp for 150 quid ... 2 sets of components front and rear for another 150 quid ... bit of cable and jobs done Nothing to see that's not factory fit and sounds much better. Sound deaden the doors and it's even better again.
All i've heard 6x9 do on a rear shelf is add volume, rarely quality.
However i'd be lying if i said i'd not done the same in the past, it's just something i'd not do again for all the reasons Rob stated
Nothing to see that's not factory fit and sounds much better. Sound deaden the doors and it's even better again.All i've heard 6x9 do on a rear shelf is add volume, rarely quality.
However i'd be lying if i said i'd not done the same in the past, it's just something i'd not do again for all the reasons Rob stated
I still don't see all the hate for 6x9s. Sure, if you're building a complete system 6x9s won't be the way to go. But I've yet to hear ANY car system, that didn't benefit massively from 6x9s, if ALL you plan on doing is throwing a new head unit at it (and maybe a sub).
70-150 bucks on top of your HU and you've got deeper and punchier base, and better treble (if you get the 3way jobbies). Doesn't sound bad to me!
With my system, I've got 6x9s in the back and if I fade them out so it's purely the sub and the uprated fronts, the sound isn't nearly as good!
Sorry to hijack a little, but can anyone help me in this case. I'll be picking up the LCR at the weekend. First off I'm going to nab the HU from my current car, and I've got a sub and weedy (but capable) amp already.
Are there any DIY guides as to getting cabling from the HU to the boot/battery, and what sort of solution should I be looking to set up, without a large outlay on new gear?
The transplanted 6x9 and sub/amp combo has done me well for 7 years without ever buying anything since (excluding a new HU).
I've done some searches, but nothing fruitful ever appears
70-150 bucks on top of your HU and you've got deeper and punchier base, and better treble (if you get the 3way jobbies). Doesn't sound bad to me!
With my system, I've got 6x9s in the back and if I fade them out so it's purely the sub and the uprated fronts, the sound isn't nearly as good!
Sorry to hijack a little, but can anyone help me in this case. I'll be picking up the LCR at the weekend. First off I'm going to nab the HU from my current car, and I've got a sub and weedy (but capable) amp already.
Are there any DIY guides as to getting cabling from the HU to the boot/battery, and what sort of solution should I be looking to set up, without a large outlay on new gear?
The transplanted 6x9 and sub/amp combo has done me well for 7 years without ever buying anything since (excluding a new HU).
I've done some searches, but nothing fruitful ever appears
Wiring is easy enough - there's a few posts by Icecavern about this - think i put one on here somewhere too either that or look in the guides section at Pabs' stuff
either that or look in the guides section at Pabs' stuff
I'll buy anybody a pint who can find me either a SQ or SPL competition car - at any level - that has achieved success with 6x9s.
I could give you endless information on why 6x9's on the rear shelf - especially when a sub is below - is a bad idea. I can give you exact theorys on why this doesn't work well, I can give you opinions of some of the highest regarded ICE installers and competitors around the country on why it's a bad idea. But unfortunately I fear it will fall on deaf ears.
Just remember - just because something sounds louder, or there is a slight improvement in any area (regardless of the negative affects the change has) it doesn't mean you have spent your money well, have the best setup possible for your money or even have a good, balance system.
Rear speakers in general aren't needed, but oval speakers are just laughable when trying to convince somebody that they will improve sound quality. And as for putting them on the parcel shelf, that's just a joke for a number of reasons. Firstly, it shouts 'LOOK AT ME!! I'VE GOT ICE IN MY CAR!!! STEAL ME!!!' to anybody who happens to glance in your direction. Secondly, you're mounting them onto glorified cardboard. Yup. Cardboard.
When was the last time you saw a home audio speaker mounted in cardboard? Any speaker for that matter, home, PA, anything. Who in their right mind would think flexible, bendy cardboard is a good surface to mount speakers on?
Also answer me this... to those who are convinced that slapping a set of rear speakers on your parcel shelf will make your car sound better... why did you not upgrade the front speakers first? You sit in the front, right? The vast majority of the sound you hear will come from those, right? So why add speakers at the opposite end of the car?
Number69 - You use the arguement of money as to why 6x9's are such a great idea. Let's say you have £100 to spend. That £100 would buy a basic but nice set of front components and a Dynamat door kit. I catagorically, 100% promise that this upgrade will improve the sound more than 6x9.s
And if you want to take it one step further and you're looking at buying a stealth shelf as well as your 6x9's for £100. That's around £200 spent. For that money you could buy a small amp to run your front speakers, as well as the door kit, giving improved bass, improved midbass, improved sound dynamics and more of a powerful feel to the car. Clarity, quality and definition are all improved.
Ok, so you don't want an amp for the front speakers? Fine, take that £100 and buy yourself a sub, box and amp combo. Many ICE retailers off 'bundle' packages including everything you need for that sort of money. Then you have given yourself the added bass you desire, for the same budget.
So what other reasons do we have for 6x9's? Sound quality? Nope... oval speakers are sonically inferior to round speakers. So, bass? Nope, a well sound deadened set of front speakers will achieve better results for the same money. Ok, rear fill? You already have rear speakers in very good locations that are of idea quality for rear fill and rear passengers. Running out of reasons now...
I am not debating that you have experienced a change in sound in your car, of course you have. But simply chucking in a set of rear speakers onto a sheet of cardboard at the back of your car, so the sound is aimed at your rear windscreen and then bounced off onto the back of your head, is never, ever going to give as much of an improvement in sound as upgrading the front speakers. Ever. Even a cheap set of front speakers will outperform a set of 6x9's at double their price in this situation.
I know you lot already have your rear speakers, but the point in this thread - as with every other thread on this forum - is to share advice. If I were to make a post about the wonders of using an eBay 99p resistor in my LCR people would be quick to provide 101 reasons why I shouldn't and why I was wasting my money. This is the same. I am simply telling you that you have misspent your money and you could have achieved far greater results for the same, if not less money.
I could give you endless information on why 6x9's on the rear shelf - especially when a sub is below - is a bad idea. I can give you exact theorys on why this doesn't work well, I can give you opinions of some of the highest regarded ICE installers and competitors around the country on why it's a bad idea. But unfortunately I fear it will fall on deaf ears.
Just remember - just because something sounds louder, or there is a slight improvement in any area (regardless of the negative affects the change has) it doesn't mean you have spent your money well, have the best setup possible for your money or even have a good, balance system.
Rear speakers in general aren't needed, but oval speakers are just laughable when trying to convince somebody that they will improve sound quality. And as for putting them on the parcel shelf, that's just a joke for a number of reasons. Firstly, it shouts 'LOOK AT ME!! I'VE GOT ICE IN MY CAR!!! STEAL ME!!!' to anybody who happens to glance in your direction. Secondly, you're mounting them onto glorified cardboard. Yup. Cardboard.
When was the last time you saw a home audio speaker mounted in cardboard? Any speaker for that matter, home, PA, anything. Who in their right mind would think flexible, bendy cardboard is a good surface to mount speakers on?
Also answer me this... to those who are convinced that slapping a set of rear speakers on your parcel shelf will make your car sound better... why did you not upgrade the front speakers first? You sit in the front, right? The vast majority of the sound you hear will come from those, right? So why add speakers at the opposite end of the car?
Number69 - You use the arguement of money as to why 6x9's are such a great idea. Let's say you have £100 to spend. That £100 would buy a basic but nice set of front components and a Dynamat door kit. I catagorically, 100% promise that this upgrade will improve the sound more than 6x9.s
And if you want to take it one step further and you're looking at buying a stealth shelf as well as your 6x9's for £100. That's around £200 spent. For that money you could buy a small amp to run your front speakers, as well as the door kit, giving improved bass, improved midbass, improved sound dynamics and more of a powerful feel to the car. Clarity, quality and definition are all improved.
Ok, so you don't want an amp for the front speakers? Fine, take that £100 and buy yourself a sub, box and amp combo. Many ICE retailers off 'bundle' packages including everything you need for that sort of money. Then you have given yourself the added bass you desire, for the same budget.
So what other reasons do we have for 6x9's? Sound quality? Nope... oval speakers are sonically inferior to round speakers. So, bass? Nope, a well sound deadened set of front speakers will achieve better results for the same money. Ok, rear fill? You already have rear speakers in very good locations that are of idea quality for rear fill and rear passengers. Running out of reasons now...
I am not debating that you have experienced a change in sound in your car, of course you have. But simply chucking in a set of rear speakers onto a sheet of cardboard at the back of your car, so the sound is aimed at your rear windscreen and then bounced off onto the back of your head, is never, ever going to give as much of an improvement in sound as upgrading the front speakers. Ever. Even a cheap set of front speakers will outperform a set of 6x9's at double their price in this situation.
I know you lot already have your rear speakers, but the point in this thread - as with every other thread on this forum - is to share advice. If I were to make a post about the wonders of using an eBay 99p resistor in my LCR people would be quick to provide 101 reasons why I shouldn't and why I was wasting my money. This is the same. I am simply telling you that you have misspent your money and you could have achieved far greater results for the same, if not less money.
Oh man.
Your first line is buying a pint for success with 6x9s at comp level.
I was talking about 6x9s for cheap. No competition level installs.
I even commented on fading the sound only to the front (£100 Upgraded) speakers (and sub) and it sounding CONSIDERABLY worse than feeding it through all 4 speakers and the sub. This is the same scenario I've heard on my other 2 pervious cars and mates cars too. You can't tell me what I have or haven't heard!
I don't have 6x9s in the parcel on my car (factory fitted into the passenger walls), but they usually make an adequate place for the speakers to sit. But like I said, when listening I wasn't looking for the best possible sound.
The whole tone of your post I feel, seems to be missing the point slightly. You're on about prefect positioning etc etc. I'm talking abnout a dirt cheap upgrade - £90 without the need for amps and addtional wiring.
I'll agree with you whole heartedly if you're looking for a decent instal 6x9s aren't the way. But I'll also strongly disagree that they aren't excellent for a cheap boost to your system, provided you don't plan doing anything else.
But I don't wanna start an argument really. You've been awesome help to me so far. I was really asking about wiring and what speaker set up I should go for in the Leon (avoiding 6x9s). Just slap in the new HU and uprate the front and back, then the wire the sub into the boot?
Your first line is buying a pint for success with 6x9s at comp level.
I was talking about 6x9s for cheap. No competition level installs.
I even commented on fading the sound only to the front (£100 Upgraded) speakers (and sub) and it sounding CONSIDERABLY worse than feeding it through all 4 speakers and the sub. This is the same scenario I've heard on my other 2 pervious cars and mates cars too. You can't tell me what I have or haven't heard!
I don't have 6x9s in the parcel on my car (factory fitted into the passenger walls), but they usually make an adequate place for the speakers to sit. But like I said, when listening I wasn't looking for the best possible sound.
The whole tone of your post I feel, seems to be missing the point slightly. You're on about prefect positioning etc etc. I'm talking abnout a dirt cheap upgrade - £90 without the need for amps and addtional wiring.
I'll agree with you whole heartedly if you're looking for a decent instal 6x9s aren't the way. But I'll also strongly disagree that they aren't excellent for a cheap boost to your system, provided you don't plan doing anything else.
But I don't wanna start an argument really. You've been awesome help to me so far.
I was really asking about wiring and what speaker set up I should go for in the Leon (avoiding 6x9s). Just slap in the new HU and uprate the front and back, then the wire the sub into the boot?
It doesn't matter if you're looking for a cheap-fix or a competition-level install, the principles still apply. Same with anything in life, the principles and theories that make the best high-end results can be applied to the lower end of the range. Like putting the good on your car, or using good brake pads and good fuel.... we're not racing drivers, our cars aren't used in competition, but by applying the same theories as used in those environments we get the best from what we have, for the money we have.
You don't need to spend a fortune to make worthwhile improvements, you just need to spend wisely. £90 can be put to really good use if you know where to invest it in the system
Your question about wiring and speaker setup... if you have no intention of powering your front speakers via an amp, then the stock cabling will be fine. So the best way of achieving what you want is to replace the front speakers with something decent, upgrade the headunit and chose a sub and amp package + wiring.
I wouldn't bother upgrading the rear speakers, as the standard ones are fine. Get the best possible front speakers as the priority and you can worry about the rears later. In fact, amping the fronts is more of a priority.
There is a truly fantastic deal on at the moment at Caraudiodirect.co.uk that I think you should take advantage of. Click here: http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/blaupunkt-velocity-component-p-5706.html
The amp that comes with that will give roughly 300watts RMS when bridged, so ideal for a single sub setup. So if you don't want to amp the front speakers use the amp for your sub.
You don't need to spend a fortune to make worthwhile improvements, you just need to spend wisely. £90 can be put to really good use if you know where to invest it in the system
Your question about wiring and speaker setup... if you have no intention of powering your front speakers via an amp, then the stock cabling will be fine. So the best way of achieving what you want is to replace the front speakers with something decent, upgrade the headunit and chose a sub and amp package + wiring.
I wouldn't bother upgrading the rear speakers, as the standard ones are fine. Get the best possible front speakers as the priority and you can worry about the rears later. In fact, amping the fronts is more of a priority.
There is a truly fantastic deal on at the moment at Caraudiodirect.co.uk that I think you should take advantage of. Click here: http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/blaupunkt-velocity-component-p-5706.html
The amp that comes with that will give roughly 300watts RMS when bridged, so ideal for a single sub setup. So if you don't want to amp the front speakers use the amp for your sub.
Yup! Well, kind of. You'll either need to modify the existing speaker housings, make new ones out of MDF or buy the ready to go Autoleads adaptor (can be bought from the site I linked to above)
I would highly recommend making your own out of MDF if you can. It might take an hour or so one weekend, but seriously the difference it will make to the sound will be far greater than you may think. Seriously worth the effort.
I would highly recommend making your own out of MDF if you can. It might take an hour or so one weekend, but seriously the difference it will make to the sound will be far greater than you may think. Seriously worth the effort.
Definitely go to the minor effort of making your own - they're so much better than using 'elcheapo' thin plastic autoleads ones especially if you want decent sound quality from them
You'll have a crossover supplied with the component speakers. This has one input and two (sometimes three) outputs.
The wires from the head unit feed into the input.
From there, the crossover filters the sound into 'highs' and 'everything else' and sends the highs to the tweeter via it's own dedicated output... and then everything else to the woofer via it's own dedicated output.
Sometimes, the crossover will have two lots of tweeter outputs. One is normal and one is to attenuate the volume of the tweeter. In systems that seem a bit harsh to listen to, this can help bring the sound down a bit and soften it up.
The wires from the head unit feed into the input.
From there, the crossover filters the sound into 'highs' and 'everything else' and sends the highs to the tweeter via it's own dedicated output... and then everything else to the woofer via it's own dedicated output.
Sometimes, the crossover will have two lots of tweeter outputs. One is normal and one is to attenuate the volume of the tweeter. In systems that seem a bit harsh to listen to, this can help bring the sound down a bit and soften it up.
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