Stop/Start error, dash warning lights & fuel smell

itscalledmax

Active Member
Feb 19, 2017
17
3
NE Essex
Posting this for reference if anyone ever gets similar.

Car sat in car park most of the day. Came back to it, started up, dash lights go out - except for EPC and a warning which says "Stop/Start system error" (or something along those lines). Within a minute or so the Emission Control warning light comes on accompanied by a very strong smell of petrol. Limped home, noticeable power loss.

I did try searching for similar symptoms but there seems to have been a variety of causes and not all had the accompanying smell of fuel.

Having got the car to a garage they said the fuel rail had come loose - no idea how, but it had.

Fixed under warranty. Seems ok now.

Very odd. Barely 3 years old, under 30K miles and nothing happened under the bonnet other than service, checking the oil level and topping up the washer bottle.

Coupled with this...

Just before Christmas, went in for service & MOT. Garage came back saying rear shocks leaking/misting - more than expected. Would replace under warranty.

Sadly, barely 3 years old and not at all heavy mileage. Kind of questions the parts & build quality. 2 strikes. One strike left.
 

RUM4MO

Active Member
Jun 4, 2008
7,784
983
South Scotland
I don't believe this, almost, it is not closer to the truth that a fuel rail fixing bolt ended up with its head sheared off?

Engine type please, I'm guessing that it was a 1.2TSI 16V 110PS - been a bit of similar action on that front with them, and in my book, it sounds like quite a dangerous situation considering that if you had looked at the front of your car you would have probably noticed fuel running out from below the engine - that fuel rail is a high pressure fuel rail - not nice, and happening a few times and VW Group don't seem to be too bothered by it!

Can you confirm with your garage that fixed it, hopefully a SEAT dealership, that they are advising SEAT UK about this potentially like threatening failure - and if so will they, SEAT UK be getting back in touch with you about what the correct way forward is, these bolts are M6 X 16mm possibly stainless steel and maybe not too high a strength grade ie theyare only 8.8 grade. They clamp down the high pressure petrol fuel rail which in turn secures or traps the fuel injectors into their positions into the cylinder head.

Edit:- I've checked your profile > postings and see that it is a 1.4TSI - so very closely related to the 1.2TSI 16V 110PS - and so same bolts! Also same engine family, not good!

Another Edit:- I might find myself replacing all 4 of these M6 X 16mm cap headed bolts for some higher strength ones, maybe 10.9 or 12.9 to avoid this fire danger on my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 16V 110PS petrol engine.
 
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itscalledmax

Active Member
Feb 19, 2017
17
3
NE Essex
1.4 (150PS) ecoTSI, petrol, manual.

Yes, I took it to a SEAT dealership (same one I bought the car from & which has been servicing it) who said that they would be contacting SEAT about it as they'd never seen anything like it before. They definitely said loose and not broken or a head/bolt sheared.
 

cupra14

Active Member
Aug 31, 2017
332
63
England
Odd that it didn't catch fire. (Not meaning to wish anyone harm, but petrol is petrol and the fuel rail is pressurised.)
 

The Daily Meme

Insta: @thatredcupra
Jan 3, 2018
912
466
Cambridge
Odd that it didn't catch fire. (Not meaning to wish anyone harm, but petrol is petrol and the fuel rail is pressurised.)
I think you'd be suprised at how difficult it is for petrol to spontaneously ignite these days.
I once rolled my peugeot 106 into a ditch after having my first experience of aqua planing on a narrow dark country road, 6 weeks after passing my driving test. There was fuel leaking out the car and onto the road which i was concerned would ignite. The officer responding said that is pretty rare for cars to catch fire due to fuel leaks these days.

Obviously taking a naked flame to a can of petrol is going to have some pretty diasterous consequences. But the additives in the fuel now prevents petrol from igniting when not under circumstances. I.E. naked flames/sparks, vaporised fuel under pressure.

The heat generated from the running engine wouldn't have been enough to ignite.

Side note - I followed an ancient ford fiesta out of cambridge last week that was pissing fuel all over the road. Could smell it in my car so I pulled them over. I expect, had someone dropped their fag out the window of their car, he might have been in a spot of trouble.
 

RUM4MO

Active Member
Jun 4, 2008
7,784
983
South Scotland
The picture I saw on another forum when a bolt head pop'd off a 2016 Skoda Fabia was quite impressive, there was no doubt that a liquid was running out from the engine bay down onto the road, I think that 3 Skoda Fabia 1.2TSI 110PS on that forum have had that problem, roughly one in July, one in December and one in January - all had ended up with a single rail fixing down colt losing its head. The Erwin tightening torque for these M6 X 16mm 8.8 grade bolts is 9Nm which I think is acceptable for that size and grade of bolt, but maybe the cylinder pressures are over loading them under certain circumstances, the trapped/compressed injectors will have rubber seals at both ends, so it is claimed that the correct VW Group "repair kit" contains a set of new bolts and rail>injector seals and injector>head seals.

Edit:- I'm not sure where the 1.4TSI engine is built, but all the 1.2TSI engines were built in a couple of Skoda controlled factories in CZ - from my unfortunate experience of looking after a 2002 VW Polo for 13 years, I came to the conclusion that either CZ produced steel, or the CZ supplier of many steel parts to VW Group, tend to be made from this very soft steels.

Another edit:- because of the cushioning effect from the partially compressed rubber seals, I would not have expected any bolts to just end up coming loose after a reasonable service period - unless the sealing material was duff and petrol stripped plasticiser out of it and it then shrunk slight removing the pre-load from that bolt.
 
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itscalledmax

Active Member
Feb 19, 2017
17
3
NE Essex
In my experience of petrol leaks, they tend to smell worse than they actually are. A bit like a cut to the face, even a small one bleeds way more than it would on most other parts of the body. Cold, dark, 1am, 3-4 miles it was worth a punt limping home.

As to the root cause, well not sure. I doubt I'll get much joy out of the garage/dealer, though from their response & reaction they were genuinely surprised.

We do like the car and it's great for our needs. But this and the dampers within a short space of time is a bit of a shame really and does tend to point to some build/quality failure somewhere.

Anyhow, if anyone gets a similar combination of symptoms this is probably the culprit.
 

RUM4MO

Active Member
Jun 4, 2008
7,784
983
South Scotland
I don't disagree with you there given the time/place this started, but when you have seen a picture of a car with that engine having pulled into the side of the road (in daylight and sunny morning) and see the wetted area below the front of the car - wetted with leaking, running out petrol, it does give you food for thought and make you consider the worse outcome if you had not stopped, as this first Fabia person had.
 

Mcdoodlz

Active Member
Mar 21, 2018
95
35
Derbyshire
Coupled with this...

Just before Christmas, went in for service & MOT. Garage came back saying rear shocks leaking/misting - more than expected. Would replace under warranty.

I took mine to my local vw specialist for its first service last month. A new car with 11k miles and 9 months old. The very knowledgeable tech who's worked for vw/skoda etc for years said my front arm rear bushes have split and I should take it to Seat to get replaced under warranty.

2 weeks after Seat said there's nothing wrong it's all normal. Not sure what to believe. I haven't got the time to chase people around, I've checked the bushes and they have a slight patch of oil round them but Seat say its ok I'll take their word!

Long story short it seems to be a common problem with these oil filled bushes and the roads. Seat call it misting, I guess if your car is out of warranty they will tell you to get them replaced but if its in warranty they're fine! It's deffo something worth pushing/chasing if you intend on keeping the car past its 3 year mark
 

itscalledmax

Active Member
Feb 19, 2017
17
3
NE Essex
We took out an extended warranty when we first got the car as we'd always intended to keep it. Glad we took it out. Disappointed we've needed to have things done under both the main and the extended warranty. Experience with the dealer so far has been good - helpful, no quibbles etc. Interestingly they said that they would sometimes see light misting but so long as it was light, it was fine. Ours wasn't and they had no problem saying it should be replaced under warranty. Split bushes seems a bit off though - I'd argue to have them replaced.

All the cars I've ever had (though this is the first from new) have been run until they dropped or became just too expensive to maintain. The plans for the ST were the same, or at the least run it for more than 6 years.
 

RUM4MO

Active Member
Jun 4, 2008
7,784
983
South Scotland
I think that oil misting on dampers is currently here to stay, and not an MOT failure unless excessive.

These lower arm rear bushes, are you sure that they are hydraulic, I don't think so, Audi S series and RS series do have some hydraulic engine mountings and maybe all other A4, A5 > have a few in the lower arms, but not as far as I know SEAT and not in that location, I don't mind being proved wrong though.
 
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