the shakes when I brake!

[darkwolfe]

Hi Guys

Need some thoughts on what could be wrong with my toledo, wrong section I know but essesntially the same car as the leon and way more people look at this.

For a while now I've had the steering wheel shaking when I brake from 40ish to about 15, only this speed!

My first thoughts were brakes, so I've had new disks and pads all round, no difference but the car stops better and better brake feel.

So then I turned my attention to wishbones as they were creaking anyway, so these have now been changed, again no difference but the creaks have gone.

The garage thinks it could be hubs, calipers or something but I'm not really thinking that way. I think it could be the steering rack!

When the cars stationary and I turn the wheel i'm hearing a mechanical 'looseness' to the rack, a light cluncking and I'm convinced it's not supposed to be there. This happens engine on or off. Can anyone tell me if theirs is the same?

I've pulled at the various steering bits but can't feel any play, little bit stuck on this one any help appreciated

 

[Stubbo]

Do you only get it when your braking or do you get it when you roll to a stop.

 

[andycupra]

if i was you id swap the front for the rear wheels and try them.
Wheels that are not balanced or slightly out of shape can cause no end of probs.

as for clonking, track rod ends? had the tracking done? they may not have taken slack out due to worn bushes.

 

[darkwolfe]

In answer to you question the shakes are only when i brake between 40 and 20 mph.

My thoughts are this as I write, the tracking has not been done since I had the lower arms changed, earlier today. This is causing the steering to shake between those speeds when I brake as their is more stress on the steering. I think the steering bush must also be on it's way out and this is causing the clunking sound.

The concern is though that the shake and knocking only happen when braking firmly between those speeds. So I can see why you think brakes and problem, but there is a looseness in the steering and I can feel a light knocking when driving over a bumpy surface. I should add it doesn't feel like suspension knocks, I feel it through the steering not through the car.

Also mention that when decelerating hard though the gears, again to load up the front wheels, steering feels fine.

So it must be....... brakes, rack, tracking, some or all there off.

Could new brakes be knackered?

 

[edmong]

Can you get someone to shake the steering while you look underneath and check that the rack stays in place?

If it moves you know this could be the prob. May not need a new one just the fixings may have worked loose.

Have you check all the steering joints? The one in the footwell? You should be able to see it. Whens the MOT due?

Like in another post check the tracking and balancing of your wheels.

 

[jiege01]

warped brake discs?

 

[SHADY-NINJA]

maybe you warped the new discs.
i warped my new ones in 4 days.
also re-balance the front wheels again

 

[darkwolfe]

Thanks for the ideas so far lads.

Ive had the tracking done, was way off.

The problem is much better but still there though

The steering still shakes and feels loose, got some friends coming round the weekend so the plan is to do some investigative stuff then. Get someone to turn the steering wheel while I check the rack fixings and rod ends, as per your suggestions. I'll also jack it up and check the top mounts, hopefully I'll find something!!

I do think the disks may be warped again but gonna keep them on until I can locate the looseness in the suspension/steering.

Any other ideas welcome.

 

[darkwolfe]

update

The top mounts were wobbling all over the place, changed these, again the problem is better but still there!

The car does feel tighter to drive though.

I also think some of your suggestions regarding discs could be right, shady-ninja, so going to put new pads and disc all round again, last time though!

Also think the inner joint on one of the track rods is duff so going to change both these in the hope that will fix the loosness on the steering.

thinking money pit right now

Not sure what else i can change! So far I've spent around £400 trying to fix this and the car is only worth about £1500. Time for a change maybe or go for a company car

 

[darkwolfe]

Discs were warped, badley so. I don't think anyone should discount new discs being warped as I spoke to the guy at GSF and he had heard of this before.

Also, the track rods were seized and wobblin all over the place.

There is still some looseness in the steering, but it really has to be the rack and I'm not changing that, but it still feels pretty tight.

So int total it's had new lower arms, top mounts, discs and pads twice, track rods, numberous trackings.

All that's left to do if i can be bothered is new rack, drop links, steering rack bushes and ball joints and the front setup is all new.