To map or not to map thats the question

[warrensworld]

I went to see a well known car tuner in Plymouth and asked about remapping my 54 LCR, he stated that on a dyno the best numbers he has seen for a standard car was 195-205 bhp and hes seen loads, he also said that after only one remap the engine will not produce the type of numbers revo state thay have acheived but it should be around a real 230 with a stronger mid range, as a novice to the tuner side of things is he talking crap or is this right? he said he will run my car on a dyno before to prove his claims but thats only when ive agreed to have the work carried out on my motor...

 

[RobM]

He is touching on an element of truth, but taking it to an extreme.

Standard cars produce book figures all day long on various rolling roads all over the country, so take his comment about that with a pinch of salt. Many LCR's even manage to make more than book power on a consistent basis, so again, no worries there.

But there has been a lot of... 'discussion'... about the stated claims from Revo not being accurate or achievable from a simple remap alone. As a rough guide, a Stage 1 remap on an LCR will see you at around 255-260 bhp. Every car varies and Dyno Lottery plays a big part in it though

 

[jonnie5]

He is touching on an element of truth, but taking it to an extreme.

Standard cars produce book figures all day long on various rolling roads all over the country, so take his comment about that with a pinch of salt. Many LCR's even manage to make more than book power on a consistent basis, so again, no worries there.

But there has been a lot of... 'discussion'... about the stated claims from Revo not being accurate or achievable from a simple remap alone. As a rough guide, a Stage 1 remap on an LCR will see you at around 255-260 bhp. Every car varies and Dyno Lottery plays a big part in it though

starperformance quote 262bhp from both 210 & 225bhp models, but taken with a pich of salt really.

 

[RobM]

That kinda proves the point then... that sort of power is what to expect. Anything higher than 260bhp is wishful thinking.

 

[probee]

What about stage two plus a FMIC and tip... thats the limit for thew K04 isnt it?
275bhp?

 

[DPJ]

I went to see a well known car tuner in Plymouth and asked about remapping my 54 LCR, he stated that on a dyno the best numbers he has seen for a standard car was 195-205 bhp and hes seen loads, he also said that after only one remap the engine will not produce the type of numbers revo state thay have acheived but it should be around a real 230 with a stronger mid range, as a novice to the tuner side of things is he talking crap or is this right? he said he will run my car on a dyno before to prove his claims but thats only when ive agreed to have the work carried out on my motor...

I think he's talking sh*t. Most of the good reputable RRs show that standard VAG cars can produce manufacturer performance figures time after time. Who is this expert?

 

[Mitchy]

I would imagine it begins with a J and ends with an M

Warren, standard cars DO make standard figures meaning your car is guaranteed to make a minimum of 220bhp as standard, often even more. (Should make 222bhp)

No ifs or buts, it will make standard figures if its running healthy, it has been proven hundreds of times from rolling roads all over the UK. Audi/SEAT wouldn't get away with it either.

When you drive a standard car and then straight after drive a remapped car you'll be amazed. If the car was only going to produce 230bhp so a <10bhp gain, you wouldn't feel hardly anything. When car boosts at 21psi you'll notice a hell of a difference

Trust me the gain is a lot more than 10bhp otherwise companies like revo/jabba/cc wouldn't be in business.

265bhp/280lbft is a sensible reliable figure for a remapped 210/225. Some people over quote 275bhp from just a remap though which is nonsense. 265bhp max.

 

[traumapat]

I think he's talking sh*t. Most of the good reputable RRs show that standard VAG cars can produce manufacturer performance figures time after time. Who is this expert?

asked jabba about stock bhp lvls. they said they are usually spot on.
mine as standard was 180, they ran it before mapping with a sports cat and it produced 191bhp... 10bhp for the sports cat sounds about right.

seems strange this tuners seen lots of cars underpowered... is he doing it right????

 

[andycupra]

well, its easy to give a low figure before hand then say wow look what ive done for you...

however the difference between the two figures appears about right, ie about 30-35 bhp gain from a remap.

 

[Chris J]

Its not Alan Jefferys is it cause they are full of shite!

 

[DPJ]

Its not Alan Jefferys is it cause they are full of shite!

That's what google brought up after a little search.

 

[name__taken]

What about stage two plus a FMIC and tip... thats the limit for thew K04 isnt it?
275bhp?

So then, given that most people should expect about 265bhp from a stage 1 remap alone, and the K04 can only realistically handle 275bhp... is a stage 2 really worth the extra cash if you're not planning to upgrade the turbo??

I'm planning on getting mine done soonish (Jabba probably as it's closest (tho they didn't reply to my email <grr>)) But wasn't sure if Stage2 was worth the extra.

 

[Mitchy]

They are headlined figures and dont speak the whole truth. Often people quote their cars making 320lbft from just a remap for instance. if you were to look on a graph, this 320lbft would be a very high spike lasting 100-200rpm and then drops off sharply.

With the amount of money you spend on FMIC/Exhaust/Induction and TIP, the additional headlined figures are not great. 10-15bhp extra at most from all of the above but the gains through the rev range are a lot better and stronger.

 

[NickSmith]

At the risk of hijacking this thread (apologies Warren), I'm thinking of re-mapping my LC 180. There are various options available, so I think I'm gonna get the Revo trial as a starter, but my question is: does re-mapping put any particular stress, strain, load etc on my poor old 52-reg LC with 60K on the clock? Could it knacker the turbo, or overload the SMIC?

For a longer-term option, although Revo is easier and quicker to get applied, I'm thinking of going to Jabbasport, purely because of the rolling-road and custom map - I like the idea of someone checking that the values decided upon work OK with my car, etc.

Sense? Paranoia?

 

[BCM]

totally hijacked mate but i'd always go for the tailored option, especially if its from another reputable company! *spelling?

 

[jonnie5]

At the risk of hijacking this thread (apologies Warren), I'm thinking of re-mapping my LC 180. There are various options available, so I think I'm gonna get the Revo trial as a starter, but my question is: does re-mapping put any particular stress, strain, load etc on my poor old 52-reg LC with 60K on the clock? Could it knacker the turbo, or overload the SMIC?

For a longer-term option, although Revo is easier and quicker to get applied, I'm thinking of going to Jabbasport, purely because of the rolling-road and custom map - I like the idea of someone checking that the values decided upon work OK with my car, etc.

Sense? Paranoia?

You always run the risk of parts wearing out faster as there working harder. Just means I would recomend servicing your at more regular intervals. Especially the oil. I would always use parts that are going to do the job with ease rather than something thats smaller or less effective thats always running at max.
Another thing as said many time is if you are planning on future mods you may want to plan the remap last, unless you can afford the dyno time to tweek your original map.

 

[warren_cox]

At the risk of hijacking this thread (apologies Warren), I'm thinking of re-mapping my LC 180. There are various options available, so I think I'm gonna get the Revo trial as a starter, but my question is: does re-mapping put any particular stress, strain, load etc on my poor old 52-reg LC with 60K on the clock? Could it knacker the turbo, or overload the SMIC?

For a longer-term option, although Revo is easier and quicker to get applied, I'm thinking of going to Jabbasport, purely because of the rolling-road and custom map - I like the idea of someone checking that the values decided upon work OK with my car, etc.

Sense? Paranoia?

An older car can always show up more stress points following a remap as the parts are worn. The common problems are people believe it IS the remap that has caused the fault when actually it has only highlighted a failing part. If you look at Songmans LCR which is a high miler running IHI, and RobDon's LC these cars seem more than capable of taking the extra punishment.

With Stage 2 Revo I only used to see 310lb/ft out of my LCR (with Forge FMIC / full Milltek / cats, Forge DV, induction kit, derestricted charge pipe, TIP etc...) so 320lb/ft from a basic map seems unlikely. Istill have no idea what BHP the LCR was putting out as I got a spurious read out from Westec's RR (of 231bhp!).

Make sure you balance the power mods with the appropriate suspension / mounts / tyres to ensure you see the best of what you've invested in otherwise it will end up being flushed away when the TCS lights kick in. Dog bone bushes would be a great start.

 

[andycupra]

dont forget that a gearbox is basically a torque converter.
therefore if you have 2 cars that produce the same power and torque, but one of them produces it at higher revs, it will mean that its quicker on the road.
this is as the power coming out of the engine is the same, but the torque value being applied thorugh the wheels will differ.
and torque basically mean accelertion...

so while stage 2 sounds like alot of money for 10bhp, its more than that on the road.
having said that, you could spend it on suspension instead.

 

[NickSmith]

Good points there, lads - one thing in my car's favour, I suppose, is that if it'd been remapped at, let's say 20K, then it'd have had 40K of extra stress on components.
I'm sure a Revo trial will help me make my mind up sharpish

 

[Skorchio]

When u remap your only putting extra stress on the components when ur using that extra power. You dont hammer it everywhere everyday then everythink should be OK.

.::EDIT::.

To many to many every's?? lol