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Vagcom g/s reading lcr (LATEST LOGS ADDED 19:00)

csd_19 said:
I wonder if its a fuel pump getting tired? :think: Certainly has enough fuel down low to give a remap level of torque (just shy of 270lbft), just not enough at the top end for the power. ECU possibly trying to add more fuel but can't, and hence shuts the throttle body itself.
Click to expand...

If it was closing the throttle body then we'd see the RPM drop surely?

Anyway, here's the log in nicer format:

Code: 
Group A:	002				Group B:	115				Group C:	118			
	RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.		RPM	Temperature	Load	Absolute Pres.
TIME					TIME					TIME				
STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	 /min	%	 mbar	 mbar	STAMP	 /min	°C	%	 mbar
0.01	2680	37.6	4.42	21.47	0.42	2720	63.9	1640	970	0.82	2800	30	100	1120
1.22	2920	109	11.9	69.64	1.62	3040	128.6	2180	1580	2.02	3240	26	100	1890
2.53	3520	188	22.1	138.36	2.93	3800	191.7	2320	2490	3.42	4240	24	87.5	2460
3.82	4760	191	21.76	168.58	4.22	5120	182.7	2370	2210	4.64	5400	24	100	2140
5.04	5440	177.4	20.74	180.56	5.44	5440	174.4	2350	2110	5.93	5440	26	100	2120
6.33	5440	172.9	20.06	178.44	6.75	5520	172.2	2190	2110	7.17	5680	28	94.1	2080
7.65	5880	164.7	19.04	185.69	8.16	6040	152.6	1910	2090	8.65	6200	30	73.7	1970
9.05	6280	151.1	17	165.75	9.47	6360	133.1	1770	1670	9.87	6480	32	71.4	1630
10.37	6600	131.6	15.64	168.83	10.78	6680	120.3	1670	1740	11.2	6760	33	60	1590
11.68	6840	126.3	13.6	156.67	12.08	6840	85	1150	1710	12.48	6840	33	0	1230
12.88	6400	14.3	1.7	9.89	13.28	5760	15	980	1100	13.79	5080	33	0	1050
14.19	4840	12	0	10.58	14.59	4640	12	980	1010	14.99	4440	33	0	1010

Can see spec boost dropping at about 6000rpm, N75 duty cycle dropping accordingly, as is measured airflow. Looks to me like the ECU is seeing something it doesn't like and is pulling back.

Can you log 002, 020 and 112?
 
Which block do you log for lambda readings? Could see if the mixture was going lean.

Depends how much it closes the throttle, you don't need to be WOT to accelerate ;) No idea which block covers the throttle position, would be interesting to see it though.
 
csd_19 said:
Which block do you log for lambda readings? Could see if the mixture was going lean.

Depends how much it closes the throttle, you don't need to be WOT to accelerate ;) No idea which block covers the throttle position, would be interesting to see it though.
Click to expand...

Lambdas on block 031, yeah probably worth checking those too, the ones I listed give air mass, timing retard and exhaust gas temps - was thinking possible high EGTs causing fuel dump.

Throttle angle is on 003 (amongst others), actually so yeah - psjunkie, make that 003, 020 and 112.

psjunkie said:
Yeah no problem will do this tonight :)
So is it not looking maf related now?

Ben
Click to expand...

It could still be but worth ruling out other stuff - the MAF did log a healthy g/s over the run but it dropped at high RPM, never seen a MAF fail that way but Bill and others may have.

psjunkie said:
Ahh I c what you mean yeah. Okay I will log them tonight and see what it comes up with Shal I log all 3 together or seperate?

Cheers Ben
Click to expand...

Ideally no more than 2 blocks at a time and in 4th gear, from about 1500rpm right to the redline - altho that will need a private road. If you can't get one then 3rd will do and all 3 at once will suffice if need be.
 
8bit said:
Lambdas on block 031, yeah probably worth checking those too, the ones I listed give air mass, timing retard and exhaust gas temps - was thinking possible high EGTs causing fuel dump.

Throttle angle is on 003 (amongst others), actually so yeah - psjunkie, make that 003, 020 and 112.
Click to expand...

High EGTs caused by going lean due to failing fuel pump, tries to dump fuel but can't hence closing the TB ;)

It's a possibility, I guess once the logs are done we can have a decent look :)
 
Right I will get out and get those logs done tonight :)
Could it be down to crap mapping? As I don't know who/where has done it

Thanks for all the help so far been a big help and hope it can get sorted

Cheers Ben
 
okay been out and logged the various blocks that have been asked for
003,031,020,112
logged them in 2 different runs so sample rate should be good enough
all logged in 3rd with WOT as i couldnt get enough staright for 4th
still not got a clue how to format them so its as vagcom does it at the mo
also the EGT sensor isnt plugged into my turbo as at some point the turbo must have been changed and the EGT sensor hole has had a cap inserted (**** knows why)

LOG 1


Wednesday,12,October,2011,18:16:47
1ML 906 032 A,,1.8l R4/5VT 0001,

,Group A:,'003,,,,Group B:,'031,,,,Group C:, Not Running
,,RPM,Mass Flow,Load,Ign. Timing,,Lambda Factor,Lambda Factor,Bin. Bits,Bin. Bits,,,,,
,TIME,,,,,TIME,,,,,TIME,,,,
Marker,STAMP, /min, g/s,%, °BTDC,STAMP,,,,,STAMP,,,,
,0.42,1960,11.72,7.8,30.8,0.00,0.992,1.000, , ,,,,,
,1.25,2000,13.33,8.6,32.3,0.81,1.031,1.000, , ,,,,,
,2.11,2040,32.72,82.7,18.8,1.71,1.023,1.000, , ,,,,,
,3.02,2280,47.81,94.9,15.0,2.62,1.000,0.961, , ,,,,,
,3.82,2520,62.44,99.6,9.0,3.42,0.945,0.953, , ,,,,,
,4.73,2880,93.75,100.0,9.8,4.24,0.961,0.953, , ,,,,,
,5.53,3280,138.56,99.6,3.8,5.13,0.953,0.953, , ,,,,,
,6.35,3840,151.03,100.0,6.0,5.93,0.914,0.953, , ,,,,,
,7.24,4320,157.08,100.0,10.5,6.85,0.961,0.953, , ,,,,,
,8.04,4720,166.11,100.0,6.0,7.64,0.945,0.953, , ,,,,,
,8.86,5080,177.22,100.0,5.3,8.46,0.945,0.953, , ,,,,,
,9.66,5400,180.86,100.0,7.5,9.26,0.945,0.953, , ,,,,,
,10.46,5840,183.61,100.0,6.8,10.06,0.938,0.953, , ,,,,,
,11.28,6000,185.14,97.3,10.5,10.86,0.953,0.953, , ,,,,,
,12.17,6320,185.75,98.8,13.5,11.77,0.938,0.953, , ,,,,,
,13.08,6600,171.11,52.2,12.8,12.68,0.945,0.953, , ,,,,,
,13.90,6760,155.19,98.4,19.5,13.50,0.969,0.953, , ,,,,,
,14.80,6840,73.75,27.5,18.8,14.40,0.836,0.953, , ,,,,,
,15.61,6680,15.44,10.2,9.0,15.20,0.844,0.961, , ,,,,,
,16.51,6320,13.89,9.8,9.0,16.09,1.991,1.047, , ,,,,,

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LOG 2

Wednesday,12,October,2011,18:18:24
1ML 906 032 A,,1.8l R4/5VT 0001,

,Group A:,'020,,,,Group B:,'112,,,,Group C:, Not Running
,,Idle Stabilization,Idle Stabilization,Idle Stabilization,Idle Stabilization,,Temperature,Load,Bin. Bits,Bin. Bits,,,,,
,TIME,,,,,TIME,,,,,TIME,,,,
Marker,STAMP, CF, CF, CF, CF,STAMP,°C,%,,,STAMP,,,,
,0.01,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.40,30.0,0.0, , ,,,,,
,0.80,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,1.20,30.0,0.0, , ,,,,,
,1.61,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,2.01,30.0,0.0, , ,,,,,
,2.41,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,2.81,30.0,0.0, , ,,,,,
,3.21,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,3.61,30.0,0.0, , ,,,,,
,4.01,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,4.43,30.0,0.0, , ,,,,,
,4.93,3.0,3.0,0.0,3.0,5.33,30.0,0.0, , ,,,,,
,5.84,3.0,3.0,3.0,6.0,6.33,30.0,0.0, , ,,,,,
,6.73,3.0,3.0,6.0,6.0,7.13,30.0,0.0, , ,,,,,
,7.55,3.0,6.0,6.0,5.3,8.04,30.0,0.0, , ,,,,,
,8.56,5.3,6.0,5.3,5.3,8.96,30.0,0.0, , ,,,,,
,9.45,5.3,5.3,5.3,8.3,9.85,30.0,0.0, , ,,,,,
,10.27,5.3,5.3,8.3,8.3,10.76,30.0,0.0, , ,,,,,
,11.16,5.3,5.3,8.3,8.3,11.56,30.0,0.0, , ,,,,,
 
Log 1:

Code: 
Wednesday	12	October	2011	18:16:47								
1ML 906 032 A		1.8l R4/5VT 0001										
												
	Group A:	003				Group B:	031				Group C:	 Not Running
		RPM	Mass Flow	Load	Ign. Timing		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor	Bin. Bits	Bin. Bits		
	TIME					TIME					TIME	
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 g/s	%	 °BTDC	STAMP					STAMP	
	0.42	1960	11.72	7.8	30.8	0	0.99	1	 	 		
	1.25	2000	13.33	8.6	32.3	0.81	1.03	1	 	 		
	2.11	2040	32.72	82.7	18.8	1.71	1.02	1	 	 		
	3.02	2280	47.81	94.9	15	2.62	1	0.96	 	 		
	3.82	2520	62.44	99.6	9	3.42	0.95	0.95	 	 		
	4.73	2880	93.75	100	9.8	4.24	0.96	0.95	 	 		
	5.53	3280	138.56	99.6	3.8	5.13	0.95	0.95	 	 		
	6.35	3840	151.03	100	6	5.93	0.91	0.95	 	 		
	7.24	4320	157.08	100	10.5	6.85	0.96	0.95	 	 		
	8.04	4720	166.11	100	6	7.64	0.95	0.95	 	 		
	8.86	5080	177.22	100	5.3	8.46	0.95	0.95	 	 		
	9.66	5400	180.86	100	7.5	9.26	0.95	0.95	 	 		
	10.46	5840	183.61	100	6.8	10.06	0.94	0.95	 	 		
	11.28	6000	185.14	97.3	10.5	10.86	0.95	0.95	 	 		
	12.17	6320	185.75	98.8	13.5	11.77	0.94	0.95	 	 		
	13.08	6600	171.11	52.2	12.8	12.68	0.95	0.95	 	 		
	13.9	6760	155.19	98.4	19.5	13.5	0.97	0.95	 	 		
	14.8	6840	73.75	27.5	18.8	14.4	0.84	0.95	 	 		
	15.61	6680	15.44	10.2	9	15.2	0.84	0.96	 	 		
	16.51	6320	13.89	9.8	9	16.09	1.99	1.05


Log 2:

Code: 
Wednesday	12	October	2011	18:18:24								
1ML 906 032 A		1.8l R4/5VT 0001										
												
	Group A:	020				Group B:	112				Group C:	 Not Running
		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		Temperature	Load	Bin. Bits	Bin. Bits		
	TIME					TIME					TIME	
Marker	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF	STAMP	°C	%			STAMP	
	0.01	0	0	0	0	0.4	30	0	 	 		
	0.8	0	0	0	0	1.2	30	0	 	 		
	1.61	0	0	0	0	2.01	30	0	 	 		
	2.41	0	0	0	0	2.81	30	0	 	 		
	3.21	0	0	0	0	3.61	30	0	 	 		
	4.01	0	0	0	0	4.43	30	0	 	 		
	4.93	3	3	0	3	5.33	30	0	 	 		
	5.84	3	3	3	6	6.33	30	0	 	 		
	6.73	3	3	6	6	7.13	30	0	 	 		
	7.55	3	6	6	5.3	8.04	30	0	 	 		
	8.56	5.3	6	5.3	5.3	8.96	30	0	 	 		
	9.45	5.3	5.3	5.3	8.3	9.85	30	0	 	 		
	10.27	5.3	5.3	8.3	8.3	10.76	30	0	 	 		
	11.16	5.3	5.3	8.3	8.3	11.56	30	0
 
Log 2 shows some high correction factors at high RPM so I reckon csd_19 may be right enough. I don't know how to read the throttle angle figures (BTDC) but the numbers change significantly near the end of the run so it may be getting closed to protect the engine.

Without an EGT sensor the only way the ECU knows there's problems with the AFR and the knock sensors. Lambda values look OK, a little lean maybe but the correction factors point to knock so given there's no EGT sensor the ECU might be doing as csd_19 says and closing the throttle body.

Is your car an early-ish 210 model? They didn't have EGT sensors as standard, I gather.
 
It's a 225

At a guess the turbo has been changed and the Egt sensor has not been fit to the turbo dunno why don't even know if its got the port for it. :-/

For what reason is it closing the throttle body though?

Cheers Ben
 
A 225 should have the EGT sensor - you can see it on block 112 in log 2, in the column headed "°C", although it's showing a solid 30 there - should be up about 800 or so. I'd guess that if the car wasn't supposed to have an EGT sensor then that column wouldn't be there.

If you look under your intake manifold you *should* see a kind of silver, braided cable, not very thick, originating from a black box under the mani. That's supposed to be plugged into the port on the turbo.

I'm surprised you're not getting "implausible signal" type fault codes relating to this. Whether or not that's what's causing your fault I'm not sure.

I've never heard of these cars closing the throttle body as a means of self-protection but from what csd_19 said, and looking at your logs, I guess it might be because the ECU is seeing high correction factors but is not seeing high exhaust gas temps.

Just a theory, hopefully Bill or csd_19 will come along with a better informed view.
 
The sensor is there. It's under the Inlet mani but not into the turbo.
Thought the sensor was there only to dump fuel if temps went over 950 degrees? And would not affect usual driving as I dont push the car often at all. Tbh can't remember the last time I hit the redline before these logs I have done.


Ben
 
OK, well the sensor needs to be connected to the port on the turbo in order to work :) That's basically what it's there for, to watch for excess exhaust temps so the ECU can fuel dump. Usually before you get to 950C you'll see correction factors like you have on your second log. My theory was that if it's seeing CF's but not high EGTs that it might do what csd_19 suggests and close the throttle to protect the engine.

If it was my car I'd sort out the connection from the EGT sensor to the port on the turbo - it might not fix this problem but it's a safety feature to protect your engine from damage, that you don't have right now.
 
I think that's because the engine isn't seeing real exhaust gas temps. My understanding of it was that the ECU will add fuel to the mixture as EGT's get towards the upper threshold, at least that's how I understand it works on the standard map - not sure about remaps. If it crosses the upper threshold (around 950C) it will then dump fuel into the cylinders.
 
psjunkie said:
Any idea why?
Click to expand...

yes
a shyte map

fuel request is asking for factory fueling...
boost is higher ~(not that high but higher than stock) but no changes have been made to the fueling

see it frequently on "unkown/cheap" maps, and occasionally from named maps too :rolleyes:

egt makes no sense... not reading does'nt make sense.. its not 30'c
this will cause issues also, but is another fault, not the main fault imho
 
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