Water methanol injection.

[devonmikeyboy]

The voices in my head have been talking to me again and this time it is about water methanol injection. Now i know this is done quite often by petrol boys with quite good results but other then Simon Cooper from Central VW/Audi i don`t know of anyone running this sort of thing on a diesel. So does anyone know of any other diesel car running this. Here is a good link for anyone else interested in doing this type of thing with plenty of info.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=937176

So does anyone have anything to say about these types of kits?

Any suggestions , other then i need stronger medication.

 

[Fez boy]

I was looking @ the kit from Coolingmist but £'s

I was going to E-mail Richard @ Aquamist and ask him about running a system for a diesel?

I used the 1s kit on my Fiat coupe and it worked very well

 

[devonmikeyboy]

I was looking @ the kit from Coolingmist but £'s

I was going to E-mail Richard @ Aquamist and ask him about running a system for a diesel?

I used the 1s kit on my Fiat coupe and it worked very well

Yeah i read a post by you mate when i did a search on site about this saying about your Fiat. Looking at getting an Aquamist kit my self as i know there kits are top quality with good backup. Was thinking about getting a kit from Turbobits as they are just down the road from me plus they are the cheapest i could find and offical dealers as well.
http://www.turbobits.co.uk/acatalog/erl_aquamist_water_injection.html

 

[Fez boy]

The only thing that worries me is not having the WI running with a mapped car with a DDS2 or DDS3

There is always the chance if the water fails that your car can go bang

With a piggyback chip/live map you can add the WI into the ecu with settings for fail safe along side the DDS2 or DDS3

I will need to get some more info

 

[devonmikeyboy]

I was looking at getting 2S system which says it has safty devices built in to stop this or don`t you believe they would work?
ERL Aquamist System 2S Water Injection Kit

Ref: erl.806-005

SYSTEM 2S
This is the ultimate water injection system: its function is directly comparable to a standard car's fuel injection system, except it controls water-flow. In addition, it has diagnostic circuitry designed to detect blocked water-jets and cut pipes. A special output link from the ECU can inform other systems in the event of a fault condition, so boost-pressure can be lowered to minimise engine damage. A pre-pressurized system enables instant response on demand.

WATER PUMP
Specially designed and manufactured by ERL for the sole purpose of pumping water, its delivery rate is small but generated at very high pressure: a minimum differential pressure of 3 bar is necessary for the ERL atomising jet. There are no mechanical links between the piston and the drive motor: the movement of the special magnetic stainless piston is induced by a powerful magnetic field generated by the on-board electronic controller. Flow and pressure characteristics are controlled by varying the frequency and the duration of the electrical pulse fed to the solenoid.

MF2
MF2 is the brain of the system, ultimately responsible for the vital functions of metering the water delivery rate. The MF2 uses incoming RPM and pressure signals from the sensors in the engine bay and compares them with a pre-programmed map set by the user. After several signal conditioning stages it finally arrives at the pulse-width-modulator stage, and the output signal is then converted into digital pulses before being sent to the electro-magnetic water valve.

MANIFOLD BLOCK
The electro-magnetic water valve and a water pressure switch sit on the top of the anodised aluminum block. The valve controls the flow rate and the pressure switch (normally set to 5 bars) limits the water pressure in the event of the pump's malfunctioning (the pump is capable of reaching a pressure of 12 bars!). There are two additional inlet ports: one for priming the water pump on start-up, the other for a remote water-pressure gauge.

ADJUSTABLE PRESSURE SWITCH
This switch determines the point where the system starts to inject. It is normally fitted to the vacuum side of the inlet manifold (2D mode). For applications where load signal (throttle angle sensor) or manifold absolute pressure sensor (MAP sensor) are available, the MF2 can read these signals and perfom 3-D mapping functions.

S/S INLINE WATER FILTER
Apart from perfoming the normal function, this filter can be back-flushed and re-used again and again. In hard water areas, clean the filter in a small glass of diluted household lime-remover occasionally.

WATER JET
The jet is made of nickel-plated brass with two spiral grooves cut into the centre insert. Water travelling through these grooves picks up a swirling motion before leaving the small hole on the tip, causing an atomising effect, turning the water into a fine mist: of course a pressure of at least 3 bar is required. Jet sizes from 0.5mm to 1.0mm are available in 0.1mm increments.

FUSED LOOM (BLUE)
A high quality splash-proof plug, with seals, hosts eleven UL and CSA approved wires for connections to the intended equipment/sensors. All mating pins of the socket/plug are gold-plated, all capable of carrying 5 amps of electrical current. An additional pair of wires supplies a stablised output voltage of 5 volts for driving a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor.

MF2 INLINE FUSE (BLUE)
Inline fuse rated at 6A for use with the MF2wire loom.

INSTRUCTIONS
A 20-page comprehensively-written instruction manual discusses every aspect of the MF2 in great detail, including over 20 schematic diagrams and illustrations.

FUSED LOOM (PUMP)
The 3-wire loom is equipped with a 10A inline fuse.

 

[Fez boy]

The Fiat guys had them all mapped into the Unichip!

IIRC the system would activate on 1 bar boost.

We then fitted the DDS2's so you could have a more aggressive setting for higher flow and also it would tell you if the water was flowing fine.

I have e-mailed Richard and asked a few questions so will let you know what his reply is

 

[Fez boy]

I just had a quick chat with a m8 & he think's there will not be much gains?

Most people run Aquamist as a safty system to guard against det.

If you have a Unichip/Motec you can run Aquamist as a duel map with more ignition advance for better gains.

 

[devonmikeyboy]

running it with just water is more done as a safty feature but do a 50% plus mix with methanol and you get more air in you engine and methanol is a fuel as well.
http://www.snowperformance.net/

 

[stoneyfordNI]

mike , if you want to blow up that nice new engine of yours just gimme a shout , il get some PE outta work a couple of nice electrical detonators , make a few nicely placed deposits on the block , stand well back , kaaabooom and will cost less than what your paying

but yes , stronger meds required

 

[DIFT]

What else can you think of to pump into this poor engine?

Diesel-check
Propane-check
Nos-check
Methanol-check
Water-check



I think thats all the bases covered!

Hats off to you.

 

[devonmikeyboy]

What else can you think of to pump into this poor engine?

Diesel-check
Propane-check
Nos-check
Methanol-check
Water-check



I think thats all the bases covered!

Hats off to you.

eeeerrr bigger turbo.

 

[Triple D]

erm what happens when its icy though mike? you think this car is indistructable in the ice? will just mean you crash faster, and nope, i dont want ya second hand turbo after the car is rolled

 

[bellautos]

Ive got propane injected before the turbo on my engine, and it makes a good power difference.
The kit adds more propane compared to boost pressure, more boost= more gas.

You carnt add to much or it will over fuel and smoke.
Its a fine line to get 99% diesel burn along with 100% propane burn.

Its good BUT in my opinion not worth all the ££ it costs to install

 

[flashbsd]

why did you not buy a petrol if your doing serious tunign like this? water injection is pointless on a TDi, temps are low by default, petrols run higher temps thus the need, i run water at the moment, and feel a difference just with that.

Just get the system1s and get a pressure gauge, when pressure builds/stops theres no water running through, easy job.

 

[muddyboots]

erm what happens when its icy though mike? you think this car is indistructable in the ice? will just mean you crash faster, and nope, i dont want ya second hand turbo after the car is rolled

Talking of ice, I have a set of Toyo winter tyres for sale, to fit the Mk4 Ibiza Sport (& FR I think). Devonmikeyboy will explain the benefit of these

 

[Triple D]

Talking of ice, I have a set of Toyo winter tyres for sale, to fit the Mk4 Ibiza Sport (& FR I think). Devonmikeyboy will explain the benefit of these

i have 215/40/17's on mine chap, but will deffo take it easy in the ice this year, with all my added power over last year, think it could be interesting

 

[devonutopia]

Ive got propane injected before the turbo on my engine, and it makes a good power difference.
The kit adds more propane compared to boost pressure, more boost= more gas.

You carnt add to much or it will over fuel and smoke.
Its a fine line to get 99% diesel burn along with 100% propane burn.

Its good BUT in my opinion not worth all the ££ it costs to install

I hear you loud and clear. Have the US powershot 2000 in my car - essentially the same. My car was overfuelling on max throttle before it was installed, and now it just overfuels a little bit more. I have noticed it clean up the smog cloud a little bit recently though. I have it set to about 2/3 of its maximum lpg flow, and to cut in right down at 3 psi.

Hoping a bigger turbo to push in more air will utilise all this extra fuel my engine now chucks in on w.o.t.

 

[bellautos]

devonutopia yes i have the powershot 2000 system fitted to mine.

I think my boost regulation is still set to the std 4psi.

The only reason i used it is because my engine is mechanical fuel adjustment and not EDC and i was trying to get the fuel in with out the smoke ,, the kit as you know does help to a certian extent.

Where did you get your kit from ???

 

[devonutopia]

devonutopia yes i have the powershot 2000 system fitted to mine.

I think my boost regulation is still set to the std 4psi.

The only reason i used it is because my engine is mechanical fuel adjustment and not EDC and i was trying to get the fuel in with out the smoke ,, the kit as you know does help to a certian extent.

Where did you get your kit from ???

Kit came from a chap on here who imported it new from the States, but never used it. Got the pipework, tank and other necessary elements from Tinleytech, a LPG supply place. Cost me around £450 all in for the install, which I hope eventually really starts to show its worth.

 

[devonmikeyboy]

Talking of ice, I have a set of Toyo winter tyres for sale, to fit the Mk4 Ibiza Sport (& FR I think). Devonmikeyboy will explain the benefit of these

Lets just put it like this.

why did you not buy a petrol if your doing serious tunign like this? water injection is pointless on a TDi, temps are low by default, petrols run higher temps thus the need, i run water at the moment, and feel a difference just with that.

Just get the system1s and get a pressure gauge, when pressure builds/stops theres no water running through, easy job.

I used to tune petrols in the past and have had some heavily tuned ones in the past. I now tune diesels for several reasons. Anyone can have a highly tuned 1.8t engine all it takes is money as there are loads of companies that can tune that engine to 350 bhp plus very easily as its been done thousands of times before and that goes for pretty much any other petrol engine going. I know of three people within 10 minutes drive from my place with 300bhp 1.8t engines in different makes and models of cars and i live in the countryside. I tuned a Nissan Pulsar to 385 bhp over ten years ago. I tune diesels because i want to be different to everyone else and try to tune them further then anyone else has which is alot more challenging. Plus my PD Cupra and my Audi still do factory mpg at 95 mph and 120 mph where a petrol car would be in single figures. A standard diesel my well run low engine temps by default but when you start to more then double stock bhp figure by adding a big turbo,doubling the stock boost plus adding propane and nos the EGT temp start t rise. Plus as i have stated before i want to inject water and methanol with a higher percentage of methanol not just water to stop predetention.

erm what happens when its icy though mike? you think this car is indistructable in the ice? will just mean you crash faster, and nope, i dont want ya second hand turbo after the car is rolled

:birdy: