what is it easy to tune a 2l 16v to?

[ibiza_95]

as title, am thinking of an engine swap, now i know a lot of ppl dont advise it and will tell me not to but it is a consideration i am having. what can it be tuned to easily and not too expensively. ive looked at stats for the 8v and 16v and the 8v at standard is only 115bhp and the 16v is at 150bhp, so i guess the 16v is a lot better yes?

 

[warren_cox]

The 8v has far more useable torque for around town driving. The 16V is only quicker if you keep within the power band of 5 - 7k rpm.

I've had a few 8 and 16v Golfs and although I loved the 16V as a revvy lump, its a fairly uncivilised beast and unless driven appropriately you can be embarassed by far lesser machinery.

The 8v has a far more usuable power band, and although its notably slower on paper, the real world figures are far less night and day.

Also consider the re-worked 1.9 lumps that companies like TSR can provide. Self fit they don't come in that pricey for the 8v and give you more scope for power.

My last 8v was a 1.9 Donington from TSR with piper cams, gas flowed head, full blue flame exhaust, lightened and balanced bottom end, ramair open induction filter and it was pushing out high 130bhp's.

Depends on budget and future plans to how I'd go.

If money's no object then go 16V and work it up to 170+bhp later on.

 

[ibiza_95]

ive seen the video of the two ibizas 8v and 16v and the 16v winds, granted its not by a mile but it is still generally faster. i want the power for say if someone pulled up next to me. if it were just a flat out sprint say which would be more ideal?

 

[Smithy]

That was my vid

Depends completely on how you want to tune them. Modding 8v's the n/a route just makes it more like a 16v, raising the powerband. Getting a 16v to start with if you're doing the n/a route is obviously a better starting block.

Forced induction could be a lot more rewarding in the 8v ...but God help you with wheel spin! lol

 

[ibiza_95]

why would it be better to force induct a 8v to a 16v? i do have plans to do this sort of thing but maybe theyre just dreams. i know a 16v is more expensive to tune, twice as much internals and what have you but all i saw was 8v 115bhp and 16v 150bhp and so that 35bhp must be at some advantage. probable initial mods would just be simply induction kit exhaust and then see from there so at first it would just be getting the thing in there and then work on it if and when i can.

 

[mattycupra]

8v's are never 115bhp standard, they always come out about 130BHP standard, so if you implemented a TSR engine etc, i say you would be looking at a very torquey monster and prob about 150bhp from an 8v

 

[warren_cox]

If you could get a bargain second hand 16V and then take it to an engine builder like Oselley Engineering to do some work its amazing the gains the can be realised just by polishing, porting, balancing and lightening things.

Have the inlet manifold shot peened and slightly enlarged on a 16V, then matched to the throttle body. Have the bottom end lightened and balanced, put in new big end shells. Try if you can to upgrade the internals either using a Mahle piston (some used to use a hardened Cosworth manufactured piston in the early 90's).

If you do it a bit at a time you can afford it easier. The above removes some of the asthmatic tendencies. Buy some new valves and, cam followers and timing chain, and redo all the gaskets and you'll have yourself a flyer.

Try to get new injectors too (or get them flow tested).

If done over time its can be a rewarding project and will realise far more gains than a stock lump ever could. Indirectly its a cheaper way of blueprinting the engine and made significant gains to older engines.

 

[ibiza_95]

ok everyting said above sounds pretty expensive i mean, i am still a student living off not a lot, but i am doing a motorsport course... believe it or not. (first year) i am looking to do the conversion myself to save money and to see how it all works and everything.
from what was said i guess an 8v can be tuned easier but only as far as a 16v standard correct? 16v is a better standard engine but is harder/ more expensive to tune?

i know a 8v engine is a sh*t load cheaper to buy than a 16v but if im gonna go totall the trouble of swapping the engine i want to get as much power as poss.

cheers peoplle

 

[warren_cox]

Max you'll get out of an 8v NA engine is in the 140's BHP wise (realistically). That 140bhp will be far more punchy than a standard 16V.
The max I've seen from a 1.8 16V is 172bhp but that was quite heavily reworked. A 2.0 will make a bit more.

The 16V is more expensive to modify as you have more parts to consider, and they were made in lower volumes hence parts costs are slightly higher.

If you're on a strict budget then do the 8v. The 16v is a more interesting engine to pull apart, but when things go wrong the bills are much bigger. Trust me, I've been there!

 

[ibiza_95]

i really dont know which one to get now. i need a new engine but i cant decide.

 

[justinking]

hey mate, i have a standard 2.0 16v and just had a cat back stainless steel exhaust put on. i had it rolling roaded and it came out 165.1bhp and 140lb/ft. most of them are around 150-160 standard, or so i have been told!

 

[justinking]

yeah mate i would go for the 16v (2.0).. i think my next mod is gonna be 4 branch manifold, after my coilovers and tints. i am hopeing to get it up to around 180bhp..

 

[ibiza_95]

is the interior the same on a 16vgti sport and the 8v gti sport ? when i do it im going to buy a scrapt car and then sell on the bits i dont want to get my money back... or as much as i can. i know the 16v gti sport has half leather what about the 8v

 

[45SET]

from what i believe.... cupra has half... gti has all material... but the seats are both the same... so just retrim.

oh, you also didn't look at hte torque figures. i live in Aus, so we use Nm

8v: 166Nm
16v: 180Nm

i have raced a cupra (funnly it had the same mods as me, same 17's with same tyres, 2 people, sounds system and cat back zorst) and he didn't start pulling away till top end of 2nd.

but when it comes to the twisties....... cupra has nothing. as my car can keep up with S15 200sx's and Skylines around the twistes............ till the strights... but i catch them again

oh and can someone explain why a 8v with a turbo would just wheels spin??? as i would image they would have very bad lag.

 

[Smithy]

oh and can someone explain why a 8v with a turbo would just wheels spin??? as i would image they would have very bad lag.

I imagined power delivery to be in big torquey lumps if a turb was bolted on, it's bad enough in these conditions as a standard motor, but a lot of fun With 15"s and not as much weight pushing the front tyres down as a 16v etc. I could imagine a turb'd 16v being smoother power delivery and an 8v acting more like a TDI, sharper shorter punch. Just what I would imagine, if I'm wrong shoot me lol

 

[45SET]

i guess i'll have to find out then hey

 

[old 'uns]

i really dont know which one to get now. i need a new engine but i cant decide.

try getting quote from your ins co first?
mmmm.. modified existing car or engine modded. they'll be rubbing their hands till xmas & beyond

 

[AlphaMale]

all i saw was 8v 115bhp and 16v 150bhp and so that 35bhp must be at some advantage.

All this talk about bhp figures and not too much on the torque figure?

I'd like to have low down torque in my cars, as cozw said it's better around town and in the real world there would not be that much difference.

Keep the 8v and put a set of throttle bodies on it and change the cams etc and you'll be well away ... if the 8v engines are that much cheaper buy one with lower miles than yours and do what you can to it out of the car. take the thing apart and really go to town on it, put it back together and just do the engine transplant.

Sell your 8v engine and you'll have some money back for fuel.

Just my opinion.

Moses

 

[ACH]

I own a 8v gti as the insurance was too much for the 16v.

Anyways having driven both in standard form on similar miles, I'd conclude the 16v is faster. Let me elaborate a little, upto 75-80mph theres not much than a car length in it but after this speed the 16v will pull away. As I said above I went for the 8v due to the insurance been far cheaper, I was disappointed at first as I wanted the daddy 16v lol but i've been driving the 8v for 4 months now and shes got a reallly nice power delivery. You'll be amazed what you can beat/get the drop on with the power delivery.

I'd say if you wanted the biggest headline power firgures and always drove the car on the limit then get the 16v. If you want a nice easy to drive car that can have pleanty of punch get the 8v. I'd advise driving a few of the different cars or passengering in one at a club meet or something similar. It really depends what you want.

The 8v car will only have cloth seats instead of the 16v half leather (not so nice jungle pattern on the seats though lol. It will also have bigger front brakes (280mm) as apposed to the 8v's smaller ones (256mm), the calippers are the same its just the larger disc which fits becauase of a different carrier.
In short the price difference between a 16v and 8v may be larger than that of the cost of a set of carriers (150 quid from SEAT), and a retrim on the seats (who knows the price).


Hope that made some sense and sorry if I waffled on

 

[cordobabrendy]

cable change gearbox, 16"s and a couple of other little changes too, get a cordoba 16v and get the half leathers with a fairly unoffensive desigh and a huuuuge cavern for a boot that the bodywork hides well.