Which tools

[cuprablue]

Ok I've done a search and bar reading through every post I can't see an answer to this.


I am thinking of getting a basic tool set for doing simple things like removing brake calipers/removing battery etc

I'm assuming I will need a metric set, what I want to know is what size sockets/spanners would be required ? (I'm not going to fork out on a larger set if I'm never going to need the extra bits).

Also, where can I find the torque settings for the LC ? Is there a better choice than the Haynes or somewhere else I can find out without having to buy a manual?

Thanks.

Cuprablue.

 

[ChrisG]

If you buy specific spanners / sockets etc you'll end up paying just as much as you will for a set, so I'd suggest just getting a reasonable quality socket / ring spanner set and adding to it as and when you needs to. Generally though you'll find that you'll mostly use 8mm/10mm/13mm/15mm/17mm and 19mm in most applications (not just on the Leon), although there are always exceptions.

Halfords Professional range are very good for the money and they often have certain sets discounted, so Id start with one of those. You'll also need a star-drive (AKA pozi drive) set to take off things like the engine sump cover, but a cheap set of those are only a few quid.

Also get a decent set of Allen (hex) keys, and make sure it has a 7mm one for the front brake caliper bolts.

Finally, its no point in knowing torque settings unless you get a decent torque wrench, cheap ones are pretty inaccurate in my experience so you may have to invest £40-50 in one. People can get too hung up on torquing every bolt though, I built an entire kit car without a torque wrench and nothing fell off / broke, the only time Id use one now are on mission critical items like cylinder head bolts or when bolting into soft metal like aluminium where its easy to strip a thread. Some of that does come from experience though, knowing by feel roughly how tight something needs to be, so being a noob it's probably better to be safe and get one, although make sure its a low range one that will do 15-50lbft type range, rather than the big long ones that are only really any good for big bolts and high torque settings, which you'll rarely come across doing simple maintenance.

Chris

 

[cuprablue]

Chris,

Thanks for the quick reply, tells me everthing I need to know.

Cheers,

Cuprablue

 

[DPJ]

.......People can get too hung up on torquing every bolt though, ....Chris

Sorry, I have to disagree about this. There's a reason why you have specific torque settings. Torque where possible.

Read here.


PS quite a few 12mm fasteners on VAG cars.

 

[lard44]

To add my tuppence worth, I wouldn't buy a whole socket set per se - if you're pretty confident that you'll only be working on the LC I'd buy decent quality individual sockets to match the car.

That way you'll have a small set of sockets and every one will be useful, and you can add to it later if needs be.

Me? I've got 3 different cars want working on (not all mine I might add) and a motorbike so I needed a big 'ol set.

 

[ChrisG]

Sorry, I have to disagree about this. There's a reason why you have specific torque settings. Torque where possible.

Read here.


PS quite a few 12mm fasteners on VAG cars.

I knew someone would disagree

Im not saying its not good practice to correctly torque bolts, especially where the clamping force is critical or where there's a likelyhood of stripping threads if overtightened, or if you're inexperienced and can't judge for yourself

Ive not read it all but the link you posted seems to only really talk about a "tight" bolt against a loose one and the differences it makes. Obviously a loose bolt is not desirable at all, what Im saying though is that in a lot of applications particularly those that use additional retaining mechanisms such as nylock nuts and threadlock to prevent the bolt coming loose, as long as the bolt is tightened to around the right level, whether its actually torqued to 40lbft, 50lbft or 60lbft makes little if any difference to how the bolt performs. For example, although manufacturers supply a torque setting for wheelnuts, how many actually supply a torque wrench in the boot to do up the wheels, and how many times does a bolt fail or cause problems, even when its wound up to about 100lbft by a QuickFit tyre monkey with an over-exuberent airgun?

Even with a torque wrench though you'll often get significant variation in ACTUAL torque simply because of frictional inconsistencies whilst clamping down at higher torque figures, hence why a lot of bolts where the "tightness" is really mission critical(cylinder head studs etc), the manufacturer will specify a nominal low torque setting to start with, then instruct you to turn the bolt another half turn etc, rather than specifying a final torque setting.

With experience though you can judge torque settings fairly accurately by hand simply by knowing how much force you're exerting on the spanner / socket, and you can also feel for when a bolt is biting into the surface and so may not be as tight as it feels, rather than blindly relying on a click of the wrench.

To avoid confusion though, I'll re-state that yes it is best practice to use a torque wrench where possible if you're at all unsure.

cheers
Chris

 

[cuprablue]

..........

For example, although manufacturers supply a torque setting for wheelnuts, how many actually supply a torque wrench in the boot to do up the wheels, and how many times does a bolt fail or cause problems, even when its wound up to about 100lbft by a QuickFit tyre monkey with an over-exuberent airgun?

...............

cheers
Chris

Talking of which, just the other week I was driving a friends car, (she was taking a rest on a long trip), when we had a puncture. This was a first for me, (despite many years of driving - guess I've been lucky), and I was shocked at just how hard it was to get the nuts off using the supplied bar !! Now I'm not weak by any means, so I hate to think how my friend would have managed on the hard shoulder of a busy motorway as she is just about 5ft and petit with it. She wouldn't have had a chance getting the wheel off.

I have to admit I was rather worried about just how tight to do the nuts back up when we finally manged to get the spare on. I had no idea whether just to use arm strength or start pulling properly on the lever. Didn't want to strip the thread but didn't want the nut working loose on the way to the garage either.

cuprablue

 

[ChrisG]

I suspect manufacturers make the wrench that similar length so that the "average" (whatever that is) person when tightening up the wheelnuts by hand will achieve an acceptable torque level without seriously overtightening them or needing to use their foot etc, but obviously that leaves you in a bit of a situation when trying to remove bolts that have been airgunned, or been in a long time and corroded a bit so making them a lot tougher to undo. Certainly doing up as tight as you can by hand with the type of wrench you find in the back of a Leon, you wouldn't be far off unless you were Geoff Capes or a frail old granny.

 

[D.K]

Youll need some TORX bits aswell for interior trim
It's a good time to look as most places still have there sales on

 

[traumapat]

re wheel bolts. if youve tightened 1 bolt to say 50lbs , then the other 4 at say 10lbs less... wont bolt number 1 take extra stress?

anal comment i know... especially if just sticking a wheel on. but now go round a corner fast .... the wheel wont come off but surely its far stronger if the 5 bolts take equal strain?

just a thought?


anyways not sure if its classed as a tool.... but id include vagcom in the ideal tool box.

 

[skahigh]

with the standard bar thing supplied with alot of cars, they are too short for you to over tighten unless you are superman. you simply don't have the leverage.

i've had a situation where i couldnt get the wheel off with the supplied bar because the nuts had previously been done with an airgun, had to botch a 3 foot extension pole for extra leverage.

 

[skahigh]

also, i'll second the notion about halfords professional range, i have a set and they are superb, really nicely finished.

 

[D.K]

Your probley better off buying a set off socket and spaners rather than just a few of a certain size, Theres nothing worse than starting a job to find you need more tools

 

[ChrisG]

re wheel bolts. if youve tightened 1 bolt to say 50lbs , then the other 4 at say 10lbs less... wont bolt number 1 take extra stress?

anal comment i know... especially if just sticking a wheel on. but now go round a corner fast .... the wheel wont come off but surely its far stronger if the 5 bolts take equal strain?

just a thought?

From what I understand, once any bolt used to clamp 2 surfaces together is tightened a reasonable way beyond a point where the two surfaces can move, it doesn't really take the direct forces exerted, so doesnt experience the cornering or acceleration/decelleration load as such, its the friction of the hub/disc contacting with the mating surface of the wheel that does all the work once its clamped together. I think thats probably what is explained in DPJ's link above. All the bolts really experience is the torque they're put under, ie being in tension. Obviously with less torque there's less clamping force so there could be a point where it would become a problem and the clamping force is not sufficient to hold the two mating surfaces together under high forces, but that point is going to be way above the cornering / accelerating capabilities of a car unless they're extremely loose.

D.K - TORX is what I meant to say in my first post, dunno what made me think "Pozi"