VW TDi Emissions software scandal

100andthirty

Full Member
Mar 19, 2004
146
2
I have never seen the term "return on investment" used with cars before. Compared with putting £20000 in a Santander 1 2 3 account, (a return of about £1800 over three years), spending a similar amount on a Leon FR 1.4ACT will result in a return on investment of about -50% over three year - ie if you sell the car you get about £10000 back. Of course you've had mobility and perhaps a bit of fun!!!
 

Raymondo111

Active Member
Apr 6, 2015
63
0
Ok so investment taken in the context that I referred to was "How much am I likely going to get back after 3 years" Nobody invests in cars unless you buy something classic that potentially could increase in value over the years just look at the values being paid for classic Ferrari's etc from the 60s 70s and 80s. My point is that if initially my car had a predicted residual of 50% of £20K but now has a predicted residual value of 40% of £20K this means my predicted car value drops by £2k, yes I have had the enjoyment of a nice car over the 3 years but why should a customer potentially lose more money due to the actions of the VAG Group which has devalued the brand. I hate to think what VAG Group shareholders are saying at the moment!!

Residual values are a key factor in all car buyers decisions, some people just buy the cheapest cars and don't worry about what the car is likely to be worth in 3 years time, some people buy cars to run them into the ground and keep them until they literally fall apart but all Motor Companies strive to keep customers by offering products that are fun/cost effective/reliable/don't lose too much money. Not all Companies succeed, look at the residuals of the bigger fleet type cars like the Astra/Insignia where you are lucky to see 30% back after 3 years hence why private buyers tend to buy these cars used and not new.
 

100andthirty

Full Member
Mar 19, 2004
146
2
Perhaps I'm being naïve, but surely used car buyers buy exactly the same cars as new car buyers and in more or less the same proportions. After all there is only one source of used cars..........new cars plus time! Of course there are complicating factors such as when formerly new cars are sold on.
 

kazand

Is powered by Medtronics
Jun 6, 2010
4,138
73
Brum
Ok so investment taken in the context that I referred to was "How much am I likely going to get back after 3 years" Nobody invests in cars unless you buy something classic that potentially could increase in value over the years just look at the values being paid for classic Ferrari's etc from the 60s 70s and 80s. My point is that if initially my car had a predicted residual of 50% of £20K but now has a predicted residual value of 40% of £20K this means my predicted car value drops by £2k, yes I have had the enjoyment of a nice car over the 3 years but why should a customer potentially lose more money due to the actions of the VAG Group which has devalued the brand. I hate to think what VAG Group shareholders are saying at the moment!!

Residual values are a key factor in all car buyers decisions, some people just buy the cheapest cars and don't worry about what the car is likely to be worth in 3 years time, some people buy cars to run them into the ground and keep them until they literally fall apart but all Motor Companies strive to keep customers by offering products that are fun/cost effective/reliable/don't lose too much money. Not all Companies succeed, look at the residuals of the bigger fleet type cars like the Astra/Insignia where you are lucky to see 30% back after 3 years hence why private buyers tend to buy these cars used and not new.
We have two cars. One, Passat , is a company car and a diesel. when it was ordered 3 years ago it was the best equipped big saloon in my P11d value and the cheapest in BIK tax. It was a diesel because I do a lot of mileage on the continent that I have to pay for. The emissions thing will only concern me if (and the government have said not) my tax will increase, or the mods required substantially cut power.
Other car is a Cupra 280. Was bought because we had an R and loved it. Which was bought because we had an FR and loved it. We currently change cars every 2 -3 years, depending on what's about.
I know the value of the Cupra will dip when the 290 hits the UK. Equally I know it will drop when a facelift is introduced. So would I be bothered if next week some scandal hit the petrol VAG's and dropped the value of my car by 10%? Nope. The car wouldn't be any different. Might mean I keep it for a bit longer. So what? Its only money, you can't take it with you and you are a long time dead. Just enjoy what you have and don't worry about what you don't.
 
Sep 29, 2009
1,188
1
norwich
We have two cars. One, Passat , is a company car and a diesel. when it was ordered 3 years ago it was the best equipped big saloon in my P11d value and the cheapest in BIK tax. It was a diesel because I do a lot of mileage on the continent that I have to pay for. The emissions thing will only concern me if (and the government have said not) my tax will increase, or the mods required substantially cut power.
Other car is a Cupra 280. Was bought because we had an R and loved it. Which was bought because we had an FR and loved it. We currently change cars every 2 -3 years, depending on what's about.
I know the value of the Cupra will dip when the 290 hits the UK. Equally I know it will drop when a facelift is introduced. So would I be bothered if next week some scandal hit the petrol VAG's and dropped the value of my car by 10%? Nope. The car wouldn't be any different. Might mean I keep it for a bit longer. So what? Its only money, you can't take it with you and you are a long time dead. Just enjoy what you have and don't worry about what you don't.


Best way to look at things
 

traumapat

Leon Cupra IHI
Jul 24, 2005
5,925
4
sunny sussex
I don't think you have anything to worry about. The only people that would put ethical or environmental reasons behind a car purchase rather than reliability or running costs wouldn't have bought your SEAT in the first place, certainly not a secondhand one.
Everyone out there thats ever driven a car knows that the car wont perform to the MPG claimed, and manufacturers tend to stretch the numbers. They also know that exhaust gases shouldn't be breathed in as they are bad for you.

Maybe things will be tricky in the US for VW but here in Europe nobody seems that bothered, theres hardly riots in dealerships is there? I cant see it affecting residual values. I can't even see how you could measure the affect.

Lifes so much simpler when you actually make a purchase based on enjoyment rather than what its worth. Lifes too short
 

leonlad

Full Member
Mar 28, 2004
1,123
48
london
As a consumer looking to buy a car I looked at performance/economy/brand image and predicted residual values, as a previous long term buyer of Ford Cars ( I am a Ford Pensioner) I really didn't fancy buying any of the current Ford models except for the Focus ST but a) the boot wasn't big enough and b) The wife told me to act my age LOL, I test drove the Leon FR 1. ACT and was very impressed with the overall package so bought one. I tend to keep my cars for 3 years before looking for a replacement so with this in mind my main concern is what is the long term effect of the actions of the VAG Group going to do to residual values? VW cars have long held enviable residual values and although Seat cars are not quite so good the overall return on your investment over 3 years has until now been pretty good. I know you don't buy a car as an investment but what you are likely to get for your car after 3 years affects your buying decision so just wondered what everyone's thought are on what you see as the long term future of your car's residuals?


i have just put my car through we buy any car and it is £2000 less than 5 weeks ago even though its petrol [:@], seems this scandal has destroyed used values , wonder is vw will be reimbursing for loss of confidence in the brand and used values ?
 

Stegor

Active Member
Jul 17, 2011
332
0
i have just put my car through we buy any car and it is £2000 less than 5 weeks ago even though its petrol [:@], seems this scandal has destroyed used values , wonder is vw will be reimbursing for loss of confidence in the brand and used values ?

My quote through What Car has dropped about £500, so not so bad. Not a surprise to me - if diesels go down, petrols are bound to get dragged down too. But the pressure will also be on the new stuff so it will probably even itself out. I don't see what all the fuss is about.
 

stu_m

Active Member
Aug 14, 2014
606
37
Hull
www.themotorbikeforum.co.uk
i have just put my car through we buy any car and it is £2000 less than 5 weeks ago even though its petrol [:@], seems this scandal has destroyed used values , wonder is vw will be reimbursing for loss of confidence in the brand and used values ?


considering we buy any car pay way less than market value and will be using this as an excuse to devalue cars even more then I would take it with a pinch of salt!
 

Raymondo111

Active Member
Apr 6, 2015
63
0
considering we buy any car pay way less than market value and will be using this as an excuse to devalue cars even more then I would take it with a pinch of salt![/QUOT

I was told by 2 different dealers that they all use a combination of CAP and Glass's plus WeBuyAnyCar when working out PX values, apparently there is a valuation tool that combines all 3 so it gives an across the board average valuation. When I traded in my last car before buying my Leon FR ACT the valuation between dealers and WeBuyAnyCar was virtually identical except for the admin fee that WBAC charges.
 

golfhappy

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
144
1
Scotland
On a lighter note seen a white 10 plate mk2 fr. De badge at the rear, black alloys, not a fan but on this car looked good. Really dark tints on the rear windows...think he must ferry about ugly buggers in the back!
 

currie09

Active Member
Mar 22, 2015
153
1
On a lighter note seen a white 10 plate mk2 fr. De badge at the rear, black alloys, not a fan but on this car looked good. Really dark tints on the rear windows...think he must ferry about ugly buggers in the back!


Always felt like that, people with 100% must have very ugly friends.
Everyone should be a fan of black alloys they add 15bhp and reduce emissions by 0.35% due to black absorbing in diesel soot? Is it only me who is aware of this miracle of black paint on wheels?
Some people try to tell me it's just brake dust but I know the truth.


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Houghsx

Active Member
Aug 11, 2015
116
0
BBC report suggest it's 'smaller' engines that are at fault.

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Curtly

Active Member
Jun 5, 2015
893
19
Essex
I've been saying this for years. Ever since the 2012 ibiza facelift. The preface lift 1.2tsi sportrider with start stop and energy recovery produced 119 co2. The facelift fr with the same engine and weight car produced the same 119 without start stop or any eco tricks. They make it up as they go along just to save on that first year road tax.

Nothing new here i know lol
 

Curtly

Active Member
Jun 5, 2015
893
19
Essex
BBC report suggest it's 'smaller' engines that are at fault.

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That'll be anything that's small and turbo charged. Everyone knows if you keep them off boost they'll be as economical as the engine size suggests. Great for computers to rig.
But once you put your foot down that power has to come from somewhere and that 14:1 air fuel ratio doesn't change. So for as much air as the turbo compresses the fuel injectors will be putting in the same fuel.