Leon 1.4 fr not starting

[paulmeldrum]

My 2018 1.4 has a problem, I had been out in the car came home parked up for 5 mins and then the car would not start. When opening the drivers door it makes a strange noise as in the video below, I believe it's fuel injector seals which have gone

2018 seat leon 1.4 fr act problem, open door and it does this noise, no start

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[Wilto]

Do you have a strong smell of petrol? If you have it's possible it's the dreaded fuel rail bolt fault.

Had the same issue last year, parked the car up after traveling 70 miles from Bristol airport, went back out to car 15 mins later and car wouldn't start, and fuel gushing out of fuel rail.
If you Google VAG fuel rail fault you will get all the information.

Apparently it resulted in a recall on all VW vehicles in America, but in Europe it was ignored.

VW recalls 218,000 vehicles in U.S. over loose fuel rail bolts

VW said the Jettas involved in the recall may have fuel rail bolts that were incorrectly tightened, causing leaking fuel and increased risk of vehicle fire.

europe.autonews.com

 

[paulmeldrum]

Yeah that's what I think it is, googling it came up with skodas, VWs, and seats all having the same problem, fingers crossed its not going to cost a fortune, I'm 10 days outside of my used car warrenty typical

 

[Wilto]

Oh bummer, I think I payed my local garage £260 which included towing it to their garage.
They fitted 4 new bolts and new injector seals, apparently it is more likely to happen to cars built between September 2017 to mid 2018, due to incorrectly set tooling in the factory.

 

[paulmeldrum]

Mine was built late 2017 and registered Feb 2018, so right in the range, that's not too bad a price, still an unexpected cost though

 

[Wilto]

Definitely, when you consider that it's done free of charge in America and Canada.
Why our motoring safety authorities didn't insist on this being a life threatening safety recall in this country and Europe is absolutely criminal, I just hope and pray no one gets badly injured or worse because of this.

 

[RUM4MO]

I'd say always report this formally to maybe DVSA if everyone affected did this, I'd think that UK authorities would find that the balance point had been reached and they would request that VW Group start recalling vehicles that fall within the engine build period that covers this Skoda engine production assembly problem period.

Edit:- remember that the engine family is EA211 - that covers all affected engines.

 

[SuperV8]

Safety Recall from the US on the 1.4 and fuel rail leak:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2020/RCRIT-20V648-7026.pdf

 

[paulmeldrum]

Safety Recall from the US on the 1.4 and fuel rail leak:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2020/RCRIT-20V648-7026.pdf

You're lucky, no recall in Europe, not considered unsafe, even though fuel come out at high pressure all over a hot engine!

 

[SuperV8]

You're lucky, no recall in Europe, not considered unsafe, even though fuel come out at high pressure all over a hot engine!

I'm actually in England - just my VPN must be directing through the US?.

Ridiculous that a fuel leak isn't considered a serious safety risk!
I can see recalls on the Leon - including faulty direction indicator & inlet camshaft adjuster pulley may break - but NOTHING regarding fuel leaking in a hot engine bay!

 

[SuperV8]

Just had a quick look at recalls for a Golf 1.4tsi and noticed there is a recall for 'fuel leakage' (01/03/2016 - 01/04/2016)
Different failure mode - but SAME outcome! leaking fuel! and this was a recall! Maybe due to the fact there were only 8 cars effected!

Defect - (Manufacturing fault) The cylinder head does not conform to specification
The fuel rail may detach
Fuel odour
Risk of fire
Number of vehicles affected: 8

Solution
Renew the cylinder head

 

[RUM4MO]

I questioned DVSA about this, basically as my wife runs a Polo with an AE211 engine, a 1.2TSI 110PS, their answer is, various checks and balances need to be made concerning every report incident, if the classification and/or in consultation with the car manufacturer, or their official importer, they find that they have been convinced that there is no safety issue, then "no flags" are set and no action is required.
In this specific case, VW Group importers have advised DVSA that the owner/driver will always be aware when a failure has occurred, and should just pull of the road and stop - DVSA will hand out this to everyone that reports this issue, but if numbers increase, they might reach that tipping point and change their minds.
It is true that the driver will eventually get a warning light, probably for low fuel pressure, but I fail to see that that changes anything, this is thought/said to be caused purely by an assemble line equipment failure leaving these 4 high pressure fuel rail securing bolts too loose/not tightened to the correct torque, and that causes high pressure petrol to spray over the front on the engine, being drawn back to the exhaust+turbo area in the slipstream - not nice.
For me, this is an issue that should be classed as a safety issue and must lead to a recall for all VW Group cars fitted with these engine types built over the production period covered by this assembly problem, and no ifs or buts.
At a guess, a possible 25% of all cars having this failure will get repaired within the VW Group workshop umbrella - the other 75% at the most convenient workshop using VW Group parts, all recovery/breakdown assurance provider will take the car to the nearest fixer, and most people just want their cars back running as they only have a car to use it. So VW Group workshops and even VW Group Indies will see very few of these failures, a better measure of how many have failed might be to quantify the number of bolts and /or injector seal sold for these engines - but VW Group will not be interested in doing that "just out of interest".

Edit:- it is only the 4 cylinder engines, ie 1.2TSI and 1.4TSI that were being built over the estimated period that are affected.

 

[Rockbox]

They might do something if the car was to catch fire and burn all the occupants to death

 

[SuperV8]

I questioned DVSA about this, basically as my wife runs a Polo with an AE211 engine, a 1.2TSI 110PS, their answer is, various checks and balances need to be made concerning every report incident, if the classification and/or in consultation with the car manufacturer, or their official importer, they find that they have been convinced that there is no safety issue, then "no flags" are set and no action is required.
In this specific case, VW Group importers have advised DVSA that the owner/driver will always be aware when a failure has occurred, and should just pull of the road and stop - DVSA will hand out this to everyone that reports this issue, but if numbers increase, they might reach that tipping point and change their minds.
It is true that the driver will eventually get a warning light, probably for low fuel pressure, but I fail to see that that changes anything, this is thought/said to be caused purely by an assemble line equipment failure leaving these 4 high pressure fuel rail securing bolts too loose/not tightened to the correct torque, and that causes high pressure petrol to spray over the front on the engine, being drawn back to the exhaust+turbo area in the slipstream - not nice.
For me, this is an issue that should be classed as a safety issue and must lead to a recall for all VW Group cars fitted with these engine types built over the production period covered by this assembly problem, and no ifs or buts.
At a guess, a possible 25% of all cars having this failure will get repaired within the VW Group workshop umbrella - the other 75% at the most convenient workshop using VW Group parts, all recovery/breakdown assurance provider will take the car to the nearest fixer, and most people just want their cars back running as they only have a car to use it. So VW Group workshops and even VW Group Indies will see very few of these failures, a better measure of how many have failed might be to quantify the number of bolts and /or injector seal sold for these engines - but VW Group will not be interested in doing that "just out of interest".

Edit:- it is only the 4 cylinder engines, ie 1.2TSI and 1.4TSI that were being built over the estimated period that are effected.

Agree,
From a safety point of view, the fuel rail detaching due to incorrect bolt torquing manufacturing procedure OR cylinder head manufacturing issue is NO different. They can both lead to the same result - fire!
There is a recall for the cylinder head/fuel rail fault so there should also be a recall for the fuel rail bolt fault.

 

[RUM4MO]

Agree,
From a safety point of view, the fuel rail detaching due to incorrect bolt torquing manufacturing procedure OR cylinder head manufacturing issue is NO different. They can both lead to the same result - fire!
There is a recall for the cylinder head/fuel rail fault so there should also be a recall for the fuel rail bolt fault.

It seems to be a fine line that DVSA walks between protecting users and giving protection to manufacturers/importers, and this specific one, at the moment, has not managed to be on "our" side of that line.
The 3.0TFSI used in cars like the B8.5 S4 and a few other VW Group cars, did have a slight issue with a high pressure fuel pipe that "lived" roughly in the valley of the Vee - that what warranted an official recall, though as I don't have a car with that exact engine I can't say if Audi jumped in and requested that DVLA missed recalls, or DVSA tapped them on the shoulder - going by the probable low numbers of cars out on the roads at that time with that engine, I'd be inclined to think that Audi sk#t themselves after a few failures and did not want adverse publicity - in the high volume sector of their business, I'd think that it will take a death or two to turn this "annoying" EA211 fuel rail issue into a safety recall.

 

[RUM4MO]

They might do something if the car was to catch fire and burn all the occupants to death

I agree, at one time organisations in UK like RAC and AA were said to be there for the driver, and so would add their "bit" into this issue, nowadays they are worthless, providing "route maps" and rebranded cheap motoring accessories is their limit of involvement, as well as hiring out their "name" for duffish breakdown company owners to use.

 

[MA1601]

Does anyone know what production dates were affected on the 1.4 eco tsi 150? Also is there any way to prevent this from happening?

 

[RUM4MO]

It will be an engine manufacturing plant output based serial number thing.

My guess, I think, is for engines with a manufacture date of mid to late 2015 to mid 2016 - unless that contradicts any dates I've posted earlier.

My plan, still sort of a plan, is, to remove the inlet manifold and either check the bolts, or just replace them one at a time, while also checking and taking pictures of the 4 inlet ports - for carbon build-up. Also to replace the AC condenser as access will be easier with the charge cooler out of the way.

The engine's DOM should be printed on a paper(?) label on the cam belt cover.

 

[MA1601]

It will be an engine manufacturing plant output based serial number thing.

My guess, I think, is for engines with a manufacture date of mid to late 2015 to mid 2016 - unless that contradicts any dates I've posted earlier.

My plan, still sort of a plan, is, to remove the inlet manifold and either check the bolts, or just replace them one at a time, while also checking and taking pictures of the 4 inlet ports - for carbon build-up. Also to replace the AC condenser as access will be easier with the charge cooler out of the way.

The engine's DOM should be printed on a paper(?) label on the cam belt cover.

Thanks. Is there a bolt kit you can order?

 

[RUM4MO]

Here is a list that I made up some time ago, and bought all these parts - for when I do this work, which will include replacing the coolant with G12evo.

4 rail securing bolts N 105 464 03

4 inlet port seals 036 129 717 E

1 charge pipe seal, upper end WHT 001 386

1 charge pipe seal, lower end WHT 003 247

6 litres of G12evo 50/50 premixed coolant G12E 050 A2

5 bolts/screws securing the inlet manifold N 910 972 01

Remember that list of parts is for the 1.2TSI 16V version of this engine.

I did not originally buy the last line item, but more than one person reported that their workshop did include these inlet manifold securing screws, so I added them later.