1.4TSI ACT FR vs 1.8TSi FR

[KenTT]

well it is an EA888 engine...(different turbo i believe) but i think you may have insulted a few 1.4 owners here guari

No not at all , I'm just interested in what this is based on.

I have had many performance cars over the years and also rebuilt a few engines too. So it is of some interest to me.

I have to admit this time around I brought the 1.4 ACT for it's economy and 5 doors, not the performance (I have a couple of Grandchildren now), but was sorely tempted by the Cupra (5 door) when we were in the show room, maybe next time

 

[Toon]

Maybe if you can't or don't want to stretch to a Cupra and want DSG (not available on the 1.4 for some crazy reason).

The extra 30bhp, brakes & suspension upgrades are tempting too.

+1

The 1.4 is probably the more sensible choice and better all rounder but like Mr Mustard I wanted something that little bit quicker and the bigger brakes (which are simply sensational and streets ahead of the Brembos on my last car, a Subaru STI). Was also fed up with tail-gaters wanting to race me at every turn, I was a bit worried the Cupra would attract more of the same.

 

[Toon]

No not at all , I'm just interested in what this is based on.

I have had many performance cars over the years and also rebuilt a few engines too. So it is of some interest to me.

I have to admit this time around I brought the 1.4 ACT for it's economy and 5 doors, not the performance (I have a couple of Grandchildren now), but was sorely tempted by the Cupra (5 door) when we were in the show room, maybe next time

Got to agree, 150hp doesnt seem all that much nowadays for a well sorted engine/intercooler arrangement. My 2 litre was running around 320hp and never gave me any trouble. But oh boy did it like a drink!

 

[Ecosseven]

I have a manual 1.8 FR 5 door and I'm very pleased with the car. I couldn't find a 1.8 to test drive so had a couple of test drives in the 1.4 (140PS) and 1.4 (150PS ACT). there was very little difference in price and the extra 30 hp and the independent rear suspension sealed the deal. I get average around 38-40 mpg and have seen as much as 48 mpg on a motorway run. Not bad for a family 180bhp 'warm' hatch.

The 150PS 14 ACT is a great engine but as others have said I liked the way the 1.8 keeps on pulling beyond 5500rpm.

My only criticism of the car is that the gearing is too long, particularly 3rd and 4th gear.

 

[guari]

In what respect, main journal bearings, top end bearings, what exactly? I would hardly say a force induced 1.4L engine producing 150PS is near the top limit, there are many normally aspirated engines producing over 100PS/litre.

well it is an EA888 engine...(different turbo i believe) but i think you may have insulted a few 1.4 owners here guari

Hi guys, sorry as I never meant my message to be misinterpreted.

All I wanted to say, is that getting 150 out of a 1.4 will be more stressful on the engine than getting 180 out of a 1.8, all else being equal.

I do agree that if I were more of a sensible man and more concerned on economy & fun, the 1.4 is an amazing option. In my case, I wanted a bit more fun but I don't have the money for a cupra, so the 1.8 was a natural option.

I never meant my comment to be taken as a criticism on what is a very fine engine with all its merits

 

[steve862]

Hi,

Having used these forums to seek advice on which Seat Leon to buy, I thought I would post my thoughts having now placed my order.

What I have ordered is the Seat Leon ST FR 1.8TSI with the convenience and technology packs, the full link interface, 18" performance alloys, metallic paint and the upgraded sound system. I needed the extra space so it had to be the ST version.

Now here is the interesting bit. I couldn't find a dealer with a 1.8TSI and they didn't have the 150TSI ACT either that I could try. I did however drive the 140BHP 1.4 in an Octavia and the 125BHP 1.4 in an Audi A3 Sportback. I wasn't looking at diesels because most journeys are very short and we live in London. Having decided the car was going to be the Leon and the trim I liked was FR, it was down to two engines.

I wasn't prepared to wait t see if the dealer could find a 1.8 and so I decided to make my decision based on the sums, people's opinions in forums and from Youtube reviews. I have about 7 more weeks to wait still.

From what I learned the 1.8TSI makes a much better sound. It has multi-link rear suspension but uses (on paper) considerably more fuel. Having checked out reviews both video and written (and not all in English) I determined that the real world difference wasn't that much according to those reviews. The reason to get the 1.4TSI was in part the economy, 12MPG difference on paper, but probably half that in practice.

I spoke to a few friends who work on engines either as a hobby or professionally and their opinions are that repairs later in life on the ACT technology might prove more costly than an engine that doesn't use this technology.

Lastly, I thought about what the sensible choice is and just threw that out the window. Yes I am buying the estate version but in every other respect this needs to be a minor mid-life crisis. The 1.8TSI is quicker and will make a nicer sound. That was where I kept coming back to when I decided to forget everything else, which one do I want?

Because I plan to keep the car for many years I am not concerned with resale values and I am concerned with potentially costly bills 7+ years from now. Perhaps if I was buying for the shorter term the 1.4TSI would have been the winner.

Once I have the car I will post back with my opinions of it.

I hope my thoughts and observations are of some use.

15/09/2015.

A quick update. My car has been delayed by about 3 more weeks. I am now looking at late November from a late August order. I have read suggestions that the 1.8TSI is being phased out as it is not selling in sufficient numbers. With the 1.4TSI ACT being a good car and with manufacturers being under pressure to overall their average CO2 emissions in the range you can see good reason for doing so. I shall keep my fingers crossed.

One of the key points of all the 1.4 vs 1.8 arguments has been the torque figures. Both have 250NM or 184lbs/ft and this means in the lower revs there is nothing to tell them apart. I wondered why the 1.8 didn't have more and I did wonder if it was to stop it taking sales from the Cupra. Instead I discovered it is to do with the DSG. The DSG used in the 1.4 and 1.8 is the same and cannot handle more than 250NM of torque. So the 1.8 has been nerfed in order to manage that relationship. If they had gone with the DSG used in the Golf GTI, Cupra and Octavia VRS it could have had more. This does mean re-mapping the ECU can take the shackles off a 1.8, at least in manual versions.

Steve

 

[steve862]

Hi,

I thought I would post back in case there are still people out there weighing up the two engines. I now have my car and have been driving it for a little over a week during which time I have moved the mileage all the way up to 500.

In terms of the positives the engine is remarkably quiet and refined. The bigger brakes on the 1.8 give you outstanding stopping power and overall the ride is very compliant and comfy even with the optional 18" performance alloys.

As for performance I am a little underwhelmed by the 180PS 1.8TSI. I realise it hasn't run in yet and will become a little more 'torquey' once it gets a couple of thousand miles on it but I am hard pressed to tell it apart from the 140PS 1.4 I tried in my test drive. Other than the brakes being fantastic I feel like I've bought the wrong car at the moment.

Seats and Skodas have been leaving the factory with a start stop fault so mine is already on recall for that. It sounds like they shipped the cars anyway knowing already the system didn't work. The VAG is obviously struggling because of the emissions scandal but somehow they needed to keep new customers onside. I do love the car but I am disappointed with Seat as I now have to take it in to get the part changed now the dealer has it.

The dealer overall has been very good and I have confidence in using them for servicing and repairs. Speaking to the man who called me today to book the appointment he said that he didn't feel there was much performance difference between the 1.4 and the 1.8.

The 1.8 does have a fair bit of room for upgrade though and when the 3 year warranty is up I will seriously consider an ECU remap. There are options out there giving about 225BHP and more than 250lbs/ft of torque. Those figures would make me pleased I went for the 1.8 but right now I am not sure I made the right purchase.

Steve

 

[Stagsfell]

My 1.8 has now done around 5,500 miles and I cannot detect any change ie it remains very smooth, quiet and flexible, but does not seem to have become any more "torquey" and confident back road overtakes require several downchanges and a bootful of revs.

Kicking myself now for not spotting the torque figures before placing a firm order - had assumed extra 30 ps would bring more torque, but like steve862 still appreciating the brakes and suspension. Incidentally my car developed start/stop problems from the second day I drove it, culminating in a new starter motor after 300 miles - no further problems with it since the new motor.

Academic question now but would I make the same choice again? Probably not, either splashing out lots more cash for the greater torque of one of the 2 litre alternatives (GTI,Cupra, S3) or saving and sticking with the 1.4. Ironic that the 1.8 is now available in the Polo GTI and Ibiza Cupra with a substantial torque increase which would have benefited the Leon. Perhaps SEAT will give us a free software update in due course?!!!!

 

[scarletian]

I have driven both the 1.4 and 1.8 and I feel the main difference I found was the ride. The rear on the 1.8 is multilink which improves the ride as well as control.

The engine of the 1.4 is just as lively in the real world and the change of direction is slightly quicker, presumably given the weight advantage due to lighter engine, brakes and suspension.

I drove the 1.8 first and was impressed with the pulling power, I am used to diesels. So I think you need to be really impressed about the 1.4 torque instead of being too disappointed about the 1.8 torque level.

There is so very little in it, the 1.4 shades it given the cost savings, especially as a company car driver which I am. But I would be very happy with the 1.8 given it is superior engineering wise.

 

[GrahamFR]

My 1.8 has now done around 5,500 miles and I cannot detect any change ie it remains very smooth, quiet and flexible, but does not seem to have become any more "torquey" and confident back road overtakes require several downchanges and a bootful of revs.

Kicking myself now for not spotting the torque figures before placing a firm order - had assumed extra 30 ps would bring more torque, but like steve862 still appreciating the brakes and suspension. Incidentally my car developed start/stop problems from the second day I drove it, culminating in a new starter motor after 300 miles - no further problems with it since the new motor.

Academic question now but would I make the same choice again? Probably not, either splashing out lots more cash for the greater torque of one of the 2 litre alternatives (GTI,Cupra, S3) or saving and sticking with the 1.4. Ironic that the 1.8 is now available in the Polo GTI and Ibiza Cupra with a substantial torque increase which would have benefited the Leon. Perhaps SEAT will give us a free software update in due course?!!!!

ha not a prayer on the free software update im afraid, but on the bright side, at least the 1.8tsi engine will get more tuner attention as a result of it being found in the polo

 

[Mr Mustard]

I'm surprised your car doesn't feel torquey Steve. Ours with 14,000 miles absolutely hurls you down the road at low to mid revs, with excellent throttle response in sport mode. Better low down torque than my old Mk.6 Golf GTI had.

Not sure if the extra weight of the ST would make any difference. Hopefully will improve with more miles.

 

[Mk3 Se]

Had our 1.4 140 PS for almost 3 years now and its been everything we wanted. 45mpg overall with about 53 mpg on holiday trips (all calculated and not read form the lying dash). Brilliant overtaking, quiet cruising, incredibly flexible, strong torque/power everywhere, best engine I have ever driven. We did consider trying the 1.8 TSi but drove the 1.4 TSi first and that was enough to convince us there was no point spending more money on power we would not use, poorer fuel economy/higher VED and kit we did not need.

But we have a problem, due to change next year and the SE is no longer available with the 140 PS engine and we do not want to take a step back to the 125 PS replacement. 150 FR is the obvious choice but we do not want sports seats, lowered sports suspension and 17" wheels, enough back issues at the moment without trying to make them worse.

Octavia appears to suit us with a 150 PS SE but it looks boring compared to the Leon.

Hopefully the range may get a revamp and put the 150 into the SE before we change.

 

[steve862]

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback regarding your experiences with the 1.4 and 1.8 engines.

I don't think the ST adds much more weight. I think it is about a person worth, which isn't too bad going from a small family hatch to what is quite a large estate. It is low down the rev range where the 1.8 feels most flat. I start to feel the engine pick up from about 3500rpm. It almost feels like a normally aspirated engine.

As for the ride on the lowered suspension and even with my 18" wheels I consider ride quality to be excellent. For MK3 Se, I think you would be quite happy with the FR from a comfort point of view. As for the seats, if you are quite broad you might find side bolsters annoying but the quality of the seat itself is excellent in the FR. I think the SE I drove felt like a standard sprung mattress and the FR felt like a memory foam mattress, sort of metaphorically speaking. It provided more support and contoured more to my body.

In terms of the ride comfort it is far better than I had expected. I thought I was buying a sports estate but instead I feel like I've bought a luxury estate. Perhaps it is because the refinement is so good it is masking the performance?

One thing I don't like and isn't something you really notice till you own the car but I don't like how wide the doors open. The first point at which the door stays open is very slightly too little for me to get in and out easily but the door then goes out a very long way and would hit cars parked next to it. With most cars I've owned the door stays open at a point where it doesn't touch the car in the next bay but gives me enough room to get out. The Leon is either too little or too much.

I'm going to keep an eye on the performance and maybe do some timed tests on a bit of road and compare those figures with the official figures Seat produces. If I am way down on acceleration from 0-30 and then from about 30-50 in 3rd, 4th, 5th gear then I'll know for sure if I am missing some performance.

Steve

 

[Mk3 Se]

For MK3 Se, I think you would be quite happy with the FR from a comfort point of view. As for the seats, if you are quite broad you might find side bolsters annoying but the quality of the seat itself is excellent in the FR. I think the SE I drove felt like a standard sprung mattress and the FR felt like a memory foam mattress, sort of metaphorically speaking. It provided more support and contoured more to my body.

I am an average build (5'9" 80kg) thus the space between the bolsters is not an issue. The problem with the bolsters is they make getting out more difficult. I have the seat pumped up about 12 strokes and access is fine (higher is better but then I bang my head), with the lowered FR suspension and sports seats I had issues when we tried one in the showroom back in 2013.

As for seat comfort goes the SE seats are excellent. Firm and supportive, 430 miles in 7 hours earlier this year and no aches whatsoever. The ride comfort of the SE is also fine, probably as good a compromise as the highly rated Focus we had (Focus had better steering though).

Wife had a new Nissan Note earlier this year and the access into that is simply brilliant. The seat can be adjusted to a perfect height (actually its perfect at the low setting) and plenty of headroom. It demonstrates clearly to me that I do not need a lower car with sports seats. She has suggested I look at the Golf SV which is available with the 150 PS 1.4 TSI (people just down the street have one) but I cannot bring myself to buy something where the "V" in the name means "VAN".

The new Audi A4 has the 1.4 TSI and I will probably have a look at that soon.

There are other small turbo petrol's available but IMHO the 1.4 TSI is superb (despite the alleged CO2 scandal). I really want to stick with the engine thus my choice will be restricted to the VAG range.

The most logical choice for me is the keep the Leon a while longer.

 

[steve862]

Hi,

I did a test drive in a 125BHP 1.4TSI Audi A3 and was very impressed with how alert it felt considering the power output. I also leased a 122BHP Golf from 2010 to 2013. I know the engine well and know how brilliant it is, even in this lower output.

I guess the issue with the Audi is the price and the kit you get for that price. Many of the desirable options are only available on the Sport and S Line models, which means the same problem as the Leon FR.

I suspect the higher powered 1.4 will find its way into the SE in time.

Steve

 

[Mr Mustard]

Hi,

It is low down the rev range where the 1.8 feels most flat. I start to feel the engine pick up from about 3500rpm. It almost feels like a normally aspirated engine.


Steve

This really doesn't sound right, unless SEAT has changed the engine mapping on later cars.

Mrs Mustard's I.8tsi gives a very satisfying shove in the back below 3500revs in the first 3 gears. Our other car is a stage 1 M235i so it's not just a question of perspective.

In the unlikely event you were local to me (Essex) I'd be happy to demonstrate.

 

[steve862]

Mr Mustard,

I'm not a million miles away, I live in South London but with Christmas coming up and work being busy I wouldn't be able to take you up on your kind offer this month.

In terms of perspective I am further convinced mine isn't as it should be. I just finished a 2 year personal lease of a Corsa 1.3 turbo diesel with 95BHP. Whilst the Leon is quicker it's not in a different league to the Corsa.

It's going in to have the start-stop system fault fixed next week and I'm going to ask them to take it out for a short drive to see what they say.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[Stagsfell]

This really doesn't sound right, unless SEAT has changed the engine mapping on later cars..

That's an interesting point, given that we know from other threads that they have changed the operation of the driving modes on recent cars (used to stay in the mode set, now although button stays lit you have to reselect Sport engine mode on every restart - a right pain IMHO).

When I was looking around 18 months ago there were loads of DSG demos, but for me to try a manual dealer had to find a used one which from memory was 63 plate with a fair few miles and this drove really well.

So perhaps the mapping has been changed since then (my car was built Dec 2014) for emission/consumption purposes?

 

[steve862]

Hi,

I did query with the supplying broker if the car would be different in any way in light of the emissions scandal, which broke shortly after I'd placed my order. I was assured that my car would be exactly the spec that was advertised at the time of my purchase. Perhaps they have re-worked the ECU in order to meet certain tests in normal operation.

Steve

 

[FRvirgin]

Had our Leon 180TSI DSG FR Tech Pack for a couple of weeks now, 2.5 yr old with 13k on the clock which has replaced an aging Skoda 160TSI and I've got to say the performance with the DSG and Mode Selector both in Sport is very rapid and the note from the sound generator is great! Even in normal mode, the engine note is satisfying albeit more subtle. The multi link rear suspension is the main reason we opted for the 1.8 as I also have a Skoda Octavia 150CR with the Torture Beam rear suspension set up and the difference with this Leon is like night and day! Unfortunately, the Leon flashed up an engine warning light after a week or so but our local Seat dealer has diagnosed a faulty/sticking thermostat, its still OK to drive but its back in next week for swapping under manufacturers warranty, not the best start but at least it's all covered. Hopefully this TSI unit will not inherit any of the issues the old 160 TSI had regarding timing chain tensioner failures or carbon build up issues which was the main reason we decided to trade in the Skoda.