It's not too bad for brand new calipers I wouldnt have thought! Bearing in mind the carriers are like £88 each new I think!
I'm going for upgraded pads - the pads alone are £140!!! Think I'm gonna have to find some cheaper options...
312mm disc fitting guide?
- Thread starter Ibiza 130 tdi
- Start date
It's not too bad for brand new calipers I wouldnt have thought! Bearing in mind the carriers are like £88 each new I think!
I'm going for upgraded pads - the pads alone are £140!!! Think I'm gonna have to find some cheaper options...
Just to double check - ordering discs tonight.
The 312mm discs are the same as the Mk1 Audi TT discs arent they? 312 x 24mm?
The 312mm discs are the same as the Mk1 Audi TT discs arent they? 312 x 24mm?
Discs and padshttp://www.vwspares.co.uk/tt_brakes.php
them pads go with any 312 discs you reckon? No one has mentioned ABS sensors before when doing this are they not affected?
ABS sensors are usually a magnetic track on the hub with a certain pattern of magnetic/no-magnetic patches passing a sensor which picks up magnetic fields (think pushbike speedo pickup). The signal this generates goes into a black box, where it can be used to work out what g the wheel is accelerating/decelerating at, & some electronic magic happens to make the ABS/ESP/TC/etc. work.
In theory your ABS ECU will need parameters being changed to make the most of the new brakes but in reality until the ABS ECU is simply unable to modulate the brakes at all it's good enough if the ECU is semi-intelligent. There are some brain dead ECUs out there which can't even cope with wheel size changes & don't have a "give up" mode where the ABS can't work out what's going on & hands back brake control to the driver.
In theory your ABS ECU will need parameters being changed to make the most of the new brakes but in reality until the ABS ECU is simply unable to modulate the brakes at all it's good enough if the ECU is semi-intelligent. There are some brain dead ECUs out there which can't even cope with wheel size changes & don't have a "give up" mode where the ABS can't work out what's going on & hands back brake control to the driver.
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It's not too bad for brand new calipers I wouldnt have thought! Bearing in mind the carriers are like £88 each new I think!
I'm going for upgraded pads - the pads alone are £140!!! Think I'm gonna have to find some cheaper options...
How come you chose the ones in the link over the raved ds2500', price?
Didn't know they were that price jesus!
Think I paid £200 for my used discs, carriers and pads so not too bad so far but I want new pads and need calipers but will have to buy them new I think.
So basically Seat are hardly gonna change the ABS sensor for each ibiza model with different sized wheels so we don't need to worry no one has mentioned it before.
I havent bought pads yet. Just need to buy them. Got everything else now - Bought upgraded discs tonight.
I think now I *might* be getting DS2500's. Looked at other upgraded pads and they're around the £80-£110 mark. And at that sort of money I may aswell just buy the DS2500's at £140. Just seems a lot for pads!
Oh sorry didn't read your other post properly!
It is pricey I didn't realise tbh, I need to fork out another couple of hundred for calipers and pads then plus fitting.
By the way your sig pic is bloody brilliant!
It is pricey I didn't realise tbh, I need to fork out another couple of hundred for calipers and pads then plus fitting.
By the way your sig pic is bloody brilliant!
The ABS sensor on the ibiza is part of the hub/bearing assembly.
Changing the discs & calipers will have no affect on the sensor.
There is no G sensor at all in the system - it monitors the speed of all 4 wheels and backs the brakes off the wheel it senses is going to lock.
When you fit bigger brakes you give the ABS an easier time. bigger discs pass through the brake pad faster and give less chance of snatch and sudden lock up.
I didnt know they were that much - but they should last as long as i keep the car now though so not too bad i dont suppose.
And yeh - sig pic is alright!
No photoshop or anything used! Just cocked a leg getting off the green you see in the pic. Got nearly a foot off the floor! Yes it'll be integrated into the hub & there will be a pickup somewhere but the basic system has a very strong similarity the one used in bike speedos, this is why you can use this signal on most cars to drive the speedo aftermarket instrument dashboards which use magnetic pickups.
StopTech have a really nice article explaining why this isn't true all the time, the interesting stuff as to why this may not work starts about half way down the page with 'The Potential Impacts Of "Big Brakes"'. There are so many variables in working out how to map the ABS correctly.
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If everything stoptech have to say is true then the fittment of tyres that are more sticky than OEM tyres - or the fitting of better than OEM brake pads would screw up the ABS system too because they would generate more G under braking.
Don't see too many people complaining about ABS issues after a change of tyres or brake pads.
The writeup is a really good marketing exersize in scaring the average punter in to shelling out a fortune on their brakes.
And an Audi TT is about the same weight and wheelbase as an Ibiza - I would suspect it has the same ABS unit fitted.
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The StopTech article is limited in scope because most of the readers simply won't understand the system at higher levels & it also simplified the whole process for a more sensational effect but it outlines the basic issue with ABS.
Changing the friction material drag co isn't much of a problem as the basic response from the calliper is the same & it will give the ABS ECU an impression you're on a slightly less grippy surface than the same situation with OE friction material. As with tyres etc, it's the response to the callipers that's the important but not the absolute values, as road tyres are in a fairly narrow band of response the actual grip levels are irrelevant. The problem is when you start to put 19" wheels on a car designed for 13" or vice versa, as the responses will change radically the ABS ECU may well not cope with the response well enough & get confused.
That said I had an interesting experience with Toyo R888s & T1-Rs with a car control course. It was dealing with the limits of electronic driver aids, we went over a carefully constructed corner which was designed to make the tutoring car understeer initially then oversteer, with the T1-Rs with ESP on you could go round quicker than with it off without drifting the car. With the R888s with ESP on the car would swap ends not much faster than the T1-Rs with ESP off, more worryingly there was no sign of the spin until it let go. With the ESP off you could go round the corner the fastest, even with a fair amount of slip you could control the car & it was progressive but push a little to far & again the car would swap ends. The reason is simple, the R888s are very progressive up to a certain slip angle when they pass that angle they lose the plot completely, with ESP on it was simply locking a wheel suddenly & once locked the car was sliding beyond the slip threshold, it was game over. So sticky tyres can cause problems but it's not so much the grip level but non-progressive traction loss.
I've never heard someone say "Some idiot pulled out in front of me and it took 19.6m to stop", it's more "some idiot pulled out in front of me & I managed to stop in time", as long as you stop in time you don't care & if you don't tbh your brake upgrades are the last thing on your mind. Human perception as a metric is a bad thing to make judgements on. From the few people who have semi-rigorously tested these things, typically the ABS/ESP system copes with things in a reasonable manner up to a certain point with some loss of effectiveness & then suddenly can't adapt to the changes well at all. Saying that, generally when callipers were changed they found that stopping distances were increased by a noticeable amount, usually this distance difference was due to reduced deceleration at initial triggering of the ABS. With all that said from everything I've seen it's consistently it's quicker to stop the car in a straight line without triggering the ABS unless you're using a competition ABS system that's mapped to give maximum braking traction (note traction is different to grip), rather than enabling you to manoeuvre the car in an emergency.
With my Panda running Wilwoods hauling the car down from over 130mph on an airfield, deliberately locking the wheels, after the initial triggering the deceleration averaged around 0.4g over the first 0.2~0.6s then settled down to around 0.7g, manual was 0.9g to 1g but spikes would often trigger the ABS. With the ABS remapped it hit 0.9g instantly with the ABS, but now manual control gave you over 1g deceleration which was spiking spiked at over 1.4g with out triggering the ABS.
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I havent bought pads yet. Just need to buy them. Got everything else now - Bought upgraded discs tonight.
I think now I *might* be getting DS2500's. Looked at other upgraded pads and they're around the £80-£110 mark. And at that sort of money I may aswell just buy the DS2500's at £140. Just seems a lot for pads!
£140?? Mine were nearer the £100 mark... where have you been lookign at that price?
Where did you get yours from dude? wanna get them ordered asap!
Bill has quoted me £135 + £9.50 courier.
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