Alternative Brake Discs/Pads - Cupra

[black_sheep]

I’d be interested to know what alternative brake disc options people have considered/used on their Cupras (standard TRW 340mm/310mm non-Brembo). I had the same 340mm standard set up on my Octavia with the heavier Diesel engine, but I have never had the same confidence with the Cupra set up. The rear discs/pads were replaced with few thousand miles on the clock, and the front and rear pads were replaced at 17,000 miles. I have since stripped the rear pads again to clean/lubricate and chunks of the friction material broke away from the area near the channel in the pad. I read on here somewhere that there was an alternative OEM rear pad to prevent the issues with seizing to the disc when parking brake applied, but when I asked the master tech he said he wasn’t aware of this and would be interested to know if it was available.

I’m considering using RTS Performance J-Hooks with Yellow stuff pads. Will probably replace the MQB hoses with a braided versions and upgrade the brake fluid to a higher boiling point version too.

Anyone else used the RTS discs?

 

[300bhpdaily]

I’d be interested to know what alternative brake disc options people have considered/used on their Cupras (standard TRW 340mm/310mm non-Brembo). I had the same 340mm standard set up on my Octavia with the heavier Diesel engine, but I have never had the same confidence with the Cupra set up. The rear discs/pads were replaced with few thousand miles on the clock, and the front and rear pads were replaced at 17,000 miles. I have since stripped the rear pads again to clean/lubricate and chunks of the friction material broke away from the area near the channel in the pad. I read on here somewhere that there was an alternative OEM rear pad to prevent the issues with seizing to the disc when parking brake applied, but when I asked the master tech he said he wasn’t aware of this and would be interested to know if it was available.

I’m considering using RTS Performance J-Hooks with Yellow stuff pads. Will probably replace the MQB hoses with a braided versions and upgrade the brake fluid to a higher boiling point version too.

Anyone else used the RTS discs?

You can’t go wrong with Ebc yellow stuff pads good choice I’ve got them on my car and they are awesome on the road and even better on track. I’ve never used RTS tho so can’t give you a opinion but hopefully someone will be able to advise.

 

[RUM4MO]

I can see that I will need to clean up and maybe replace the rear discs and pads - factory originals still, on my daughter's May 2019 Cupra which has very small total mileage.

What is the main reason that these rear discs turn nasty quickly and the/so the rear pads wear down quickly?

 

[SuperV8]

I wouldn't be too concerned with some small brake away at the corner of a slot - depends how bad - maybe you can share some photos of the pads and discs?

Were the pads tight in the caliper carrier? Both inner and outer pads need to be free to slide smoothly in the caliper carrier. I always do a trial pad fitment with the caliper carrier in a vice once cleaned to check - before lubing the contact points.

JLR, Volvo and VAG all use the similar Continental rear EPB caliper and brake system.
I can see similar complaints from JLR and Volvo customers about elevated rear pad wear or disc corrosion.

The root cause is the pads binding in the caliper carrier. (assuming your caliper piston and guide pins are not seized)

This can cause either the pads to drag on the disc causing elevated wear - or to not contact the disc with enough pressure resulting in corrosion which gets worse over time as the usual pad cleaning action is not effective.

I can see iterations from all three OEM's to try to alleviate this pad binding. The later VAG pads have a wrap arround stainless steel shim to try to help prevent the outside edge of the pad from seizing to the caliper carrier.
The latest Golf MK8's etc and Volvo SPA (latest V60 etc) platform pads actually have a large notch stamped out of the top outside corner of the inboard pad - this reduces the area which could potentially seize with the caliper carrier.

I would be looking at getting some rear pads from the latest generation VAG's (checking the dims are the same), and avoid any grooved/drilled discs.

 

[Woody_72]

Another vote for EBC yellow stuff here. Not remotely grabby (which I hate) but tons of power than only gets better as they heat up.

 

[RUM4MO]

Strange that you mentioned stainless steel springs/shims/liners, my wife's old 2002 VW Polo had these but her 2015 VW Polo does not - both on the rear disc brakes, I was toying with the idea of buying a set probably from ECP and trying fitting them when I next service the brakes on her Polo, which I tend to do every other year at service time - brake fluid change one year, callipers and pads out for clean up the other year. I had thought that the dimensions of the calliper carriers might have changed and so there was now no room for retro fitting these SS shims/springs, but buying and trying to fit will answer that question for me.

For daughter's Leon Cupra, lack of annual servicing and lack of use is part of its reasons for getting like this. One day I'll get to work on it when the weather is warmer - and before its first MOT and final under warranty service - or a big bill for replacing the rear brakes should get offered to her by her dealership.

 

[SuperV8]

Strange that you mentioned stainless steel springs/shims/liners, my wife's old 2002 VW Polo had these but her 2015 VW Polo does not - both on the rear disc brakes, I was toying with the idea of buying a set probably from ECP and trying fitting them when I next service the brakes on her Polo, which I tend to do every other year at service time - brake fluid change one year, callipers and pads out for clean up the other year. I had thought that the dimensions of the calliper carriers might have changed and so there was now no room for retro fitting these SS shims/springs, but buying and trying to fit will answer that question for me.

There are many anti-noise shims the OEM's use when they are developing their brake systems mainly for brake noise reduction. Usually some type of rubber & steel composite but also stainless steel and 3M adhesive are used. Stainless steel shims are usually flat or clip on around a part of the pad which is not in contact with the carrier - so their only function is a noise isolator.
On these later VAG pads the stainless steel shim folds around the edges of the pad in contact with the carrier so will effect fitment, to help reduce the chances of the pad binding in the carrier.
I couldn't tell whether the carrier is modified over the previous version. I'm fairly certain the inside dimension of the 'hammer head' ear of the pad is unchanged which is the critical dimension of these type of ATE pads.

Example: 5G0698451

 

[RUM4MO]

Yes, you have just reminded me of these "hammer end" shim/springs bits, I'm sure that the Polo with 288mm front discs has that type of pad. I think that my plan is just to buy a of the SS clips that fit over the carriers for the rear pads - like VW Group used to provide on earlier rear disc braked Polos.

 

[black_sheep]

I wouldn't be too concerned with some small brake away at the corner of a slot - depends how bad - maybe you can share some photos of the pads and discs?

@SuperV8 Thanks for your reply as the forum brake subject matter expert.

The pads had seized in the runners, causing the pads to overheat - I normally strip/clean/file and polish machined faces/lube and reassemble every time I swap between winter/summer tyres and use a high spec non-metallic content lube too. The sliding pins and and calliper piston were in a good condition, clean/lubed and free to move.

The piece that had broken away was approx the size of a 5p piece from the slot across one of the faces (1.5-2mm depth) - similar damage to that seen on helicopter rotor brakes that I’ve serviced in the past (susceptible to high heat).

I thought that I had photos, but did the job in a hurry. Been in hospital for an op this week, so if I get caught by my wife stripping them down for a photo I’ll be in bother!

As per my previous post, even when new, the brakes on this car haven’t been as good as previous VAG cars with similar set ups. The pedal feel was spongy from new and the braking was a little rear-biased, so re-bled and changed the fluid after 14 months. Some improvement, hence changing to braided hoses/higher spec fluid this time.

Trying to recall the last time I’ve seen a car with stainless shims on the pads or callipers. Probably back to my Honda VTEC days.

 

[Peller]

I had my rear brake discs and pads written off by the dealer and was quoted £350 for replacement!

I bought a set of Brembo rear pads for about £35 from the permanent Euro Car parts sale.

I took the car to an independent garage and after a 5 second inspection they said the discs where totally fine then proceeded to fit the pads within 30 mins.

I find it strange that the fronts have 60% material left but the rear pads were near 10%. The car has just covered over 25k.

I've been told that the DSG cars eat through rear pads due to Autohold and the dreaded clunk every time you set off after the car has sat for a few days.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

 

[RUM4MO]

I've just been to ECP and collected my ordered set of 4 SS calliper carrier shims for "Lucas" brakes, fitting them will wait until I change back to summer wheels on my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI.

I have enlightened my daughter's partner to the fact that the May 2019 Leon Cupra will need a change of brake fluid and a general look-see-fix of the front and rear brakes - and that could probably mean a new set of rear pads and if necessary anew set of discs. I suppose that I should get them or me to order in a set of calliper carrier bolts in case the discs need replacing.

 

[SuperV8]

@SuperV8 Thanks for your reply as the forum brake subject matter expert.

The pads had seized in the runners, causing the pads to overheat - I normally strip/clean/file and polish machined faces/lube and reassemble every time I swap between winter/summer tyres and use a high spec non-metallic content lube too. The sliding pins and and calliper piston were in a good condition, clean/lubed and free to move.

The piece that had broken away was approx the size of a 5p piece from the slot across one of the faces (1.5-2mm depth) - similar damage to that seen on helicopter rotor brakes that I’ve serviced in the past (susceptible to high heat).

I thought that I had photos, but did the job in a hurry. Been in hospital for an op this week, so if I get caught by my wife stripping them down for a photo I’ll be in bother!

As per my previous post, even when new, the brakes on this car haven’t been as good as previous VAG cars with similar set ups. The pedal feel was spongy from new and the braking was a little rear-biased, so re-bled and changed the fluid after 14 months. Some improvement, hence changing to braided hoses/higher spec fluid this time.

Trying to recall the last time I’ve seen a car with stainless shims on the pads or callipers. Probably back to my Honda VTEC days.

Haha - well my job is product engineering working with brake pads/discs.

Many Japanese/Korean OEM's uses stainless steel shims, normally on top of rubber steel composite shims (an expensive brake noise solution). Additionally I see Mercedes & BMW frequently using them. Not so often with VAG.
As I mentioned, usually stainless steel shims on the pads are not wrapped around to aid in the pads fitment/movement on the caliper bracket, which is why the VAG wrapped around stainless steel shim change stood out for me - and was their attempt to reduce the chances of the pads binding in the caliper carrier.

I generally find most modern brake systems are way too sensitive/over assisted/lacking feel for my liking.
When I changed from my Audi A4 B6 quattro to my Leon there were many benefits but the brakes and steering were definitely a backwards step for feel and weight.

 

[RUM4MO]

On that topic of feel, my 2000 VW Passat 4Motion with its Audi 2.8 V6 30V and quattro system, came out of the factory with 288mm front discs - and that did not inspire much confidence when doing motorway driving at/near national speed limits - by comparison my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS has 288mm front discs, and feels quite safe on the road.

Another weakness on the 2000 VW Passat and similar aged B5 A4s etc was the lack of disc protection from incoming surface water - that did always mean a long delay in braking effort especially when driving on wet salted motorways - not a good feeling at all.
A recorded delivery letter to VW UK HQ resulted in a reply saying "it is a common problem across the new car market and not just a VW Group issue, due to asbestos being removed from friction materials. We always advice that you prepare the brakes for use just before using them. This issue has been taken care of on future models, it would be useful if you replaced the front pads using the latest version of pads from Audi."

Oh, well!

So, I ordered in the extra lower water shields/deflectors from the next version of Passat that by now was on sale, replaced the discs for ATE Power Discs as they are grooved, and fitted new Pagid or Textar pads - that problem disappeared for ever.

I liked the advice to always prepare your brakes for use just before you need to use them, that probably works quite well under normal conditions, but with the driving standards on UK roads, not quite so helpful.

It tended to be the feel of accelerating while braking for the first few seconds that really got me worried, ie you press the brake pedal as normal in response to someone else's actions, brake pedal becomes firm, but speed does not reduce, not very pleasant. From reading car mags, this was a well known issue in wet, salty winter roads with B5 A4 and similar VW Passats - and VW Group just stuck with improving designs for future build while leaving owners to their own devices.

 

[bigbadjay]

I've just been to ECP and collected my ordered set of 4 SS calliper carrier shims for "Lucas" brakes, fitting them will wait until I change back to summer wheels on my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI.

I have enlightened my daughter's partner to the fact that the May 2019 Leon Cupra will need a change of brake fluid and a general look-see-fix of the front and rear brakes - and that could probably mean a new set of rear pads and if necessary anew set of discs. I suppose that I should get them or me to order in a set of calliper carrier bolts in case the discs need replacing.

Hi, any idea what carrier bolts are required for the cupra? Cheers

 

[black_sheep]

Hi, any idea what carrier bolts are required for the cupra? Cheers

OEM part no.s are here. You can cross-reference with TRW components using Google search:

floating caliper brake; brake caliper housing; cal... Leon/Leon 4 (LE) 2016 year Seat EUROPA 615050

floating caliper brake<br/>brake caliper housing<br/>calliper carrier<br/>brake disc (vented) Leon/Leon 4 (LE) 2016 year Seat EUROPA 615050 spare parts

seat.7zap.com

 

[bigbadjay]

OEM part no.s are here. You can cross-reference with TRW components using Google search:

floating caliper brake; brake caliper housing; cal... Leon/Leon 4 (LE) 2016 year Seat EUROPA 615050

floating caliper brake<br/>brake caliper housing<br/>calliper carrier<br/>brake disc (vented) Leon/Leon 4 (LE) 2016 year Seat EUROPA 615050 spare parts

seat.7zap.com

Thanks, do you know if the S3 and golf R brakes the same as cupra?

 

[Dwelsh290]

Has anyone experimented with any of lesser known brands that seen to carry a budget price ? . Mostly the options you see in e Bay offering full disc and package options for sub £300... Read a few mixed reviews on them

 

[matthab]

I had my rear brake discs and pads written off by the dealer and was quoted £350 for replacement!

I bought a set of Brembo rear pads for about £35 from the permanent Euro Car parts sale.

I took the car to an independent garage and after a 5 second inspection they said the discs where totally fine then proceeded to fit the pads within 30 mins.

I find it strange that the fronts have 60% material left but the rear pads were near 10%. The car has just covered over 25k.

I've been told that the DSG cars eat through rear pads due to Autohold and the dreaded clunk every time you set off after the car has sat for a few days.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

If you have ACC it uses the rear brakes for most of the braking.

 

[SuperV8]

Has anyone experimented with any of lesser known brands that seen to carry a budget price ? . Mostly the options you see in e Bay offering full disc and package options for sub £300... Read a few mixed reviews on them

Unfortunately with friction - brake pads/discs you can often pay way over the odds on well known braking brand names for an average/below average product.
Also there is some cheap rubbish on the market.

 

[Cuprabenwytm]

Mtec j hooks iv just put on and mintex red pads , bedded em in gently as recommended and there awsome , some brake noise under heavy breaking but that's to be expected with the j hook designe