Broken cambelt fr184

[Two90Black]

Hi folks, does anyone have knowledge or experience of a 2016 2.0 diesel FR184 snapping the timing belt?
Ours went and Seat dealership are saying their only option for repair is a new engine at circa £10k.

Does anyone know if these engines are safe? i.e. do the valves operate above the stroke of the piston. Or will they have collided at time of belt failure?
The dealer do not have a scope to check inside the cylinders.

Also, anyone got an idea of costs of replacing the valves, pistons and rebuild?

 

[mjj4]

Hi folks, does anyone have knowledge or experience of a 2016 2.0 diesel FR184 snapping the timing belt?
Ours went and Seat dealership are saying their only option for repair is a new engine at circa £10k.

Does anyone know if these engines are safe? i.e. do the valves operate above the stroke of the piston. Or will they have collided at time of belt failure?
The dealer do not have a scope to check inside the cylinders.

Also, anyone got an idea of costs of replacing the valves, pistons and rebuild?

Sorry to hear you've had a belt snap on your 184. I think all of the 2.0tdi common rail engines are interference. What were the conditions when it snapped? High rpm/speed or low?

I'm not an expert on the 184 engine but depending on the failure conditions you may have just punched the valves through the rockers, so taking the rocker cover off and having a look at the rockers, lifters and camshaft will give you a good idea of the level of damage. You could get lucky and a new set of rockers and belt will save it.

If the rockers look fine and it's suspected valve damage I would put a new belt on it and turn it over before opening the engine up any further than the rocker cover. I say this because no matter what route you go down you're going to need a new cambelt kit anyway, but I appreciate this adds some labour time.

Worst case scenario I would be looking for a second hand engine online, there's one on eBay for £800 at the moment, or you could go for the £1600 option of a rebuilt short block, but personally I'd go for a second hand non rebuilt engine.

Cheers

 

[SuperV8]

Sorry to hear that, ouch 10K!
As mentioned above this is an interference engine - so pistons will hit valves if the belt brakes/slips. Depends on how you were driving at the time as to the extend of the damage - if just cranking/idling you may be lucky and just a couple bent valves of broken rockers?
Personally I would be looking at rebuilding or replacing the head rather than a whole second hand engine. Try and get a leak down test done to find the extent of the damage? and how many cylinders leak. Rocker cover off to inspect the cams/rockers.

Good luck.

 

[BigJase88]

Dealers are funny if the computer can't fix it then new engine time ??

They also call themselves technicians ?? saying that you do get a toilet technician in 2023 too ?

 

[Two90Black]

Cheers for confirming the dreaded thought - that valves will have met the pistons ?
Was sat around 2000rpm when there was a dip in power and the glow plug light started flashing. There was no obvious bang/judder or any other obvious indication of damage. Just felt similar to taking foot off accelerator.

i’ve managed to get a local independent garage who can do the work at a much more reasonable price. Damage not yet known but they also confirmed the possibility of valves or worse a camshaft might need done but still nowhere near that initial price quoted.

 

[Two90Black]

Dealers are funny if the computer can't fix it then new engine time ??

They also call themselves technicians ?? saying that you do get a toilet technician in 2023 too ?

Funny you say that. The dealer tech initially reported the computer fault which was taking him down a totally different path. I had to explain again about what happened and request they look at the belt.
Bring back the good old mechanic who could diagnose by checking in the engine bay rather than a OBD fault checker

 

[mjj4]

Cheers for confirming the dreaded thought - that valves will have met the pistons ?
Was sat around 2000rpm when there was a dip in power and the glow plug light started flashing. There was no obvious bang/judder or any other obvious indication of damage. Just felt similar to taking foot off accelerator.

i’ve managed to get a local independent garage who can do the work at a much more reasonable price. Damage not yet known but they also confirmed the possibility of valves or worse a camshaft might need done but still nowhere near that initial price quoted.

Thanks for the update!

To be honest looking at SuperV8's diagram the valves are vertical and would have only come in contact with the piston once as it pushed them straight up and most likely smashed the rockers. Hopefully you won't even need a camshaft.

 

[SuperV8]

Thanks for the update!

To be honest looking at SuperV8's diagram the valves are vertical and would have only come in contact with the piston once as it pushed them straight up and most likely smashed the rockers. Hopefully you won't even need a camshaft.

On our engines the camshafts are assembled in a module is so cams aren't available separately; so a damaged cam = new camshaft module.
Valves and rockers all look like they are available - valves around £30-£40 each.

 

[SuperV8]

Cheers for confirming the dreaded thought - that valves will have met the pistons ?
Was sat around 2000rpm when there was a dip in power and the glow plug light started flashing. There was no obvious bang/judder or any other obvious indication of damage. Just felt similar to taking foot off accelerator.

i’ve managed to get a local independent garage who can do the work at a much more reasonable price. Damage not yet known but they also confirmed the possibility of valves or worse a camshaft might need done but still nowhere near that initial price quoted.

Fingers crossed for just a few bent valves or broken rockers?
Presuming your 2016 has not had a cambelt change? what's your mileage?

 

[Two90Black]

Fingers crossed for just a few bent valves or broken rockers?
Presuming your 2016 has not had a cambelt change? what's your mileage?

Not been changed. It’s only covered 41k miles. Guy I spoke to at Indy garage said its most likely something else that has failed. Tensioner or water pump. As the belt should be ok at that mileage.

 

[SteveGSXR600K1]

Not been changed. It’s only covered 41k miles. Guy I spoke to at Indy garage said its most likely something else that has failed. Tensioner or water pump. As the belt should be ok at that mileage.

This is why I stick to service schedules, regardless of mileage. Tensioners, waterpump (if chosen), etc, would have been replaced at the same time as the belt. I went with SEAT for mine to get the 5 year warranty. I know it's expensive, but I wouldn't fancy my chances of getting an engine fixed if the belt failed and I'd had it done by a local garage.

Lets hope that there's minimal damage and it can be sorted at a reasonable price. All the best mate.

 

[Two90Black]

So just to update.
Got the car in a garage to get it sorted. It would appear that the tensioner has seized. Causing the belt heat up as its been driven around it. The belt has shredded and ultimately failed.

The big problem now is that the camshaft housing is damaged.

anyone know of anywhere selling one?

part no. 04L103292G for the CUNA engine.

 

[SuperV8]

So just to update.
Got the car in a garage to get it sorted. It would appear that the tensioner has seized. Causing the belt heat up as its been driven around it. The belt has shredded and ultimately failed.

The big problem now is that the camshaft housing is damaged.

anyone know of anywhere selling one?

part no. 04L103292G for the CUNA engine.

From what I can see the camshaft module for a 2016 CUNA engine is 04L103044L - listed around £1700! I would double check the correct number or are you referring to a different part?

#edit#
Just to add engine details of those engine numbers linked to 04L103044L - so the same camshaft module was used on 184ps and 110ps 2.0tdi. Might help searching for a second hand one. 1.6tdi is NOT linked.

CKFC	2.0 TDI	150​	2013 - 2015
CRBC	2.0 TDI	150​	2014 - 2015
CRGA	2.0 TDI	177​	2016 - 2017
CRLB	2.0 TDI	150​	2015 - 2018
CRLD	2.0 TDI	110​	2016 - 2018
CRMB	2.0 TDI	150​	2014 - 2018
CRVA	2.0 TDI	109​	2013 - 2014
CRVC	2.0 TDI	143​	2013 - 2013
CUNA	2.0 TDI	184​	2014 - 2018

 

[Two90Black]

Yeah thats the same part.

i found a used one for sale but its from an Audi A6 with a 2.0 CNH engine. Part no. is the same but is there any way of knowing if the cams are different? Like cam profiles, timing etc?

 

[Two90Black]

Sorry just noticed the different part number you have listed. Its the same physical bit that you have in the photo. But my part no. is as I put above.

 

[SuperV8]

Sorry just noticed the different part number you have listed. Its the same physical bit that you have in the photo. But my part no. is as I put above.
View attachment 35422

I can't see your number in any catalogue - maybe it's a component level part number? You could see if Seat/VW parts department recognise your number?
Looking at an Audi A6 2018 - I can see a CNHA 2.0 engine (not a CNH) but the camshaft module number is different 04L103044M which supersedes to 04L103044Q. Maybe the same housing part but some other difference?
I think would be safer to stick with a 2.0tdi from one of the transvers engine cars - Golf/A3/Leon/Octavia etc..

 

[R3k1355]

You'd be better off sourcing another 184 engine, having the belts and stuff done on that and putting that in.
Sell your old engine as parts.

You're going to be deep in labour costs pulling apart a damaged engine and trying to repair it.

 

[Two90Black]

I can't see your number in any catalogue - maybe it's a component level part number? You could see if Seat/VW parts department recognise your number?
Looking at an Audi A6 2018 - I can see a CNHA 2.0 engine (not a CNH) but the camshaft module number is different 04L103044M which supersedes to 04L103044Q. Maybe the same housing part but some other difference?
I think would be safer to stick with a 2.0tdi from one of the transvers engine cars - Golf/A3/Leon/Octavia etc..

Yeah Ideally get one from the same engine type. But proving to be like hens teeth.

 

[Two90Black]

You'd be better off sourcing another 184 engine, having the belts and stuff done on that and putting that in.
Sell your old engine as parts.

You're going to be deep in labour costs pulling apart a damaged engine and trying to repair it.

The estimate for repair was very reasonable. All the components are cheap to replace. Well apart from that housing.

 

[SuperV8]

Yeah Ideally get one from the same engine type. But proving to be like hens teeth.

It that cam module the only damage?
Any bent valves or broken rockers?