car won't start...at all now!

[projectgingawar]

cold start problem

I've often joked that I need to say "please" to get my car to start but lately the problem is getting much worse! the car had been sat since sunday (and snowed on 3 times) and I came to fire it up this afternoon and there was just no hint of life when turning it over. I took out the plugs and they were soaked in petrol (most likely from me hopelessly pressing the accelerator pedal!). I rested them on the inlet manifold so they had a path to earth and checked for sparks, they were all sparking as they should. so now I know I have sparks, petrol and hopefully compression so I just couldn't understand why it still wouldn't start! I gave the plugs a good clean and a spray with WD40 and also sprayed it in the plug holes. basically it took and hour of faffing around removing plugs, spraying with WD40, turning over with the plugs removed to get rid of the excess petrol and eventually it fired up! sounded like it was only on 3 cylinders for a minute or two then idled as it should. it has done this before but usually a good long crank would get it going. the car is a '97 16v gti. the plugs/leads/dizzy/oil/filter and cambelt are all new. any thoughts?

 

[robreidmotors]

Could be many things.

It would be worth checking the air ducting and all vacuum hoses closely, any crack in the intake duct might cause issues as the fuel would be too lean.

If it happens again, try turning ignition on/off five or six times before trying to start it, if it starts after that easilly then it could be a fuel pressure issue.

Maybe check battery connections and the coil connections?

after that i dont know

 

[projectgingawar]

cheers i'll try that. it starts with ease when warm just for reference. the batery connections are good and I've run an auxiliary earth to the coil as it wasn't mounted very well (it's been replaced with one that is a different shape to the origional so it won't mount in the same place)

 

[robreidmotors]

I had a similar issue with a golf, which i never solved, although i suspect it was the fuel pump.

You could also disconnect the temp sensor when running see if the engine note changes, if it doesnt a new sensor may be good, only about £8 from gsf.

 

[projectgingawar]

awsome, i'll give that a shot too! just tried starting again and it fired up first time! only seems to happen on the first start for a while.

 

[2pac58]

i have the same prob with the 8v starts all the time when warm

 

[projectgingawar]

spent over 2 hours tonight to nearly not quite get my car started! same issues as my other thread "cold start problem". I have sparks, I have fuel on the plugs but no life! despite the wifes ever reliable Yaris charging my battery for me the whole time I still flattened it to the point where the alarm locked out all the electrics! and I can't get them back on until I enter a code....which naturaly I don't have! so to sum up I have a flat battery, an alarm that won't turn on any electrics untill it gets it's code and even of I rectified the first 2 problems it still refuses to start! i'm booked in on a trackday on the 21st of february! and a session on the rollers at jabbasport on the 7th of march I've decided the first point of call after getting a new battery and somehow a code for the alarm will be a new coil, followed by a fuel pump. all the vacuum pipes are new too.

 

[captin_urbis]

right i think it might be an airleak after the air intake sensor, sounds to me like its overfueling, check all your gaskets and for any splitls in your airline, check your inlet manifold has not got a crack andwhere, must have quite a big crack though in order to not start liek.

let me know

 

[projectgingawar]

would the items you mentioned include the pipe that goes from the airbox to the ISV?

 

[captin_urbis]

yeah, so long as its past the airintake sensor, not sure where it is on your engine though, i no on a VR its just after the air filter lol

 

[MJ]

Things to check before throwing money at your pride and joy:
Fuelling - check the pressure dont just watch it flow out of the pipes

Compression - struggling on cold\long standing starts could indicate a head gasket leak - whichs stops when the engine is hot because the head and block expand with the heat produced.

Spark - you might have a spark but is the ignition timing correct?

Fault memory - well worth checking because it could point out an underlying fault that directly relates to your problem.

 

[projectgingawar]

the only sensor on the inlet is an air temp sensor adn the pipe from the ISV plugs into the top of the airbox.


the temp sensor is located on the right of the picture on the neck of the airbox, and the ISV pipe is the smaller of the 2 pipes connected to the top of the airbox and it runs to underneath the HT lead cover

with regards to the headgasket suggestion, back when I could just about get it started, I could get it going first thing in the morning, then come back to it many hours later (long enough for everything to be stone cold again) and it would fire straight up, but when left for a good 48hrs or so, that's when the problems start.

 

[MJ]

sorry i forgot to add timing - very important
worth a check but yours seems to be a wierd one.

 

[projectgingawar]

the timing marks all line up so I assume it's all ok! the problems began before I had the cambelt changed too. I also replaced all vacuum pipes as I know these cause all sorts of issues! do you think it would be worthwhile me towing my car to a garage and getting a compression test done while it's cold?

 

[captin_urbis]

worth a try mate, so long as it does not cost alot lol

 

[MJ]

Should only cost 30mins labour, remove your plugs, get the leads out of the way and charge your battery beforehand though.

 

[captin_urbis]

off the subject, but hitcher you know when boosh is back on tv??

 

[robreidmotors]

You mentioned 'fuel on the plugs'?

I take it the plugs sparked out of the engine rested on the engine?

If you have fuel on the plugs when they were taken out yet they spark out of the engine that suggests overfuelling causing a non-spark.

If thats the case? you need to find why its overfuelling

 

[projectgingawar]

Yes they sparked whilst resting on top of the inlet manifold. I do have one possible cause! I noticed that the vacuum pipe from the inlet manifold near to the throttle body, that goes to the ecu looked a little suspect so I decided to chop it back. In the process of removing it, the brass pipe its attatched to pulled quite easily from the inlet manifold. so i'm guessing this wouldn't have been a very good air seal and hence may have been leaking. sealed it as best I could with bodge tape and 30 seconds of cranking and the car fired up! might have been a fluke though!

 

[robreidmotors]

order a new one from seat or vw, i did a good temporary repair using bike tyre repair kit pads, worked well, with cellotape wrapped around that.

and they are all important, that one above has improved things quite a bit, added about 3mpg doesnt sound much but helps the running.