Cost of going BT and parts needed?

[jamiebennett81]

yep, you guessed it, already saving for going BT next year

what is the accurate cost of it all?

speaking with Bill, I would be looking with going for a GT2871, which as I understand it will offer up 350-400bhp (400bhp max I take it) or GT30 is needed for more, but the advantage of GT2871 is similar if not better spool times than my GT2x

of course going beyond the realms of 350 means internals are required, and with as much as I have read about going BT, I still dont quite understand the internals side of it and what is needed

Bill was talking about a rough cost of 4k for the whole upgrade (excluding stand alone ECU)

What will I need for the upgrade:

GT2871
Tubular manifold
larger injectors - 630cc I believe
uprated fuel pump
New exhaust (exhaust DP when measured was only just over 2.5" although meant to be 3" so this will have to be replaced)
100 cell cat (or decat)

I was thinking of going stand alone engine management too

what internals will be needed?

I already have the Pro Alloy FMIC which is more than capable to hold this sort of power (500bhp I have been told)

I was also considering the SEM intake manifold with the small port gasket

Brembo's will also be purchased (along with a set of Oz Super Leggra's in jet black to house them as my current wheels, as much as I love them, simply aren't big enough to house the brakes)

also what is the best way to do things, buy parts gradually I guess. and if so, I would really appreciate help on what bits to get. I will be starting with internals first......

sorry for all the questions, but this is the next path or stage for me in learning, to go for big power
thanks

 

[pj1985]

GT2871 seems a nice turbo, some people not making the figures they expect with them but that could be a whole host of things. GT28RS is also a popular choice and doesnt have to have internals although rods are a popular choice. Dont think you need pistons for this either of these turbos and valves are your own preference but recommended by many.

Best thing to do is buy all the generic extras you need first such as fuel pump, injectors etc etc. You can normally get a good deal on internals if you by them all from the same source. If you are getting your DP, exhaust mani and turbo as a kit then you can save some £s aswell however going with one companies kit isnt always best. If these parts are all coming from different sources then you could even get your exhaust mani early if you are sure you want Garrett fitment.

Most importantly get your brakes fitted first so you can bed them in and get used to them and whatever you think it will cost you and you budget for it make sure you have 20% on top as you will spend more.

 

[jamiebennett81]

GT2871 seems a nice turbo, some people not making the figures they expect with them but that could be a whole host of things. GT28RS is also a popular choice and doesnt have to have internals although rods are a popular choice. Dont think you need pistons for this either of these turbos and valves are your own preference but recommended by many.

Best thing to do is buy all the generic extras you need first such as fuel pump, injectors etc etc. You can normally get a good deal on internals if you by them all from the same source. If you are getting your DP, exhaust mani and turbo as a kit then you can save some £s aswell however going with one companies kit isnt always best. If these parts are all coming from different sources then you could even get your exhaust mani early if you are sure you want Garrett fitment.

Most importantly get your brakes fitted first so you can bed them in and get used to them and whatever you think it will cost you and you budget for it make sure you have 20% on top as you will spend more.

time for brake and wheel upgrade already me thinks.....metal against metal grinding noise happening from the front and rear

upping the power with the gt2x, all be it only 280-290bhp has anihilated the brakes already!

thats the best part of 2k which will be coming out of my account soon! lucky AMD!

think I will have a read of Hooch's thread, and learn some more info there

thanks for the reply

 

[caveo]

Just drop it @ Bills give him a shed load of cash and say " go nuts mate " lol ( i would )

 

[Damoegan]

Just drop it @ Bills give him a shed load of cash and say " go nuts mate " lol ( i would )

Good luck with it mate.

 

[jamiebennett81]

Just drop it @ Bills give him a shed load of cash and say " go nuts mate " lol ( i would )

lol, thats what I think I will do, I'm saving now

 

[wild willy]

No mate, 07cupra.....£12000 and £2000 mods gets you 350 bhp plus. A better long term finacial proposition.
Whats your car worth now,
how much can you salvage on existing mods,
how much will these new upgrades cost,

Whats the difference in cost to going 2.0T.

 

[ibizacupra]

GT2871 seems a nice turbo, some people not making the figures they expect with them but that could be a whole host of things. GT28RS is also a popular choice and doesnt have to have internals although rods are a popular choice. Dont think you need pistons for this either of these turbos and valves are your own preference but recommended by many.

Best thing to do is buy all the generic extras you need first such as fuel pump, injectors etc etc. You can normally get a good deal on internals if you by them all from the same source. If you are getting your DP, exhaust mani and turbo as a kit then you can save some £s aswell however going with one companies kit isnt always best. If these parts are all coming from different sources then you could even get your exhaust mani early if you are sure you want Garrett fitment.

Most importantly get your brakes fitted first so you can bed them in and get used to them and whatever you think it will cost you and you budget for it make sure you have 20% on top as you will spend more.

the best way by far is one stop shop for supply & fit, as you risk buying things in good faith you hope will work as a package, BUT when and if things dont go to plan, you will be responsible for providing the get out of "you supplied the parts sir".
It often does not work out that part a + b +c = "expected" performance OR cost, when things dont go together. Its not you fitting it at the end of the day. Overruns on time are at someones cost, likely to be customers, not garages.

shopping from assorted vendors may get you a dolly mixture, not a well conceived BT car.

 

[G12MO X]

the best way by far is one stop shop for supply & fit, as you risk buying things in good faith you hope will work as a package, BUT when and if things dont go to plan, you will be responsible for providing the get out of "you supplied the parts sir".
It often does not work out that part a + b +c = "expected" performance OR cost, when things dont go together. Its not you fitting it at the end of the day. Overruns on time are at someones cost, likely to be customers, not garages.

shopping from assorted vendors may get you a dolly mixture, not a well conceived BT car.

Agree completly , I wish I had done that!

 

[jamiebennett81]

the best way by far is one stop shop for supply & fit, as you risk buying things in good faith you hope will work as a package, BUT when and if things dont go to plan, you will be responsible for providing the get out of "you supplied the parts sir".
It often does not work out that part a + b +c = "expected" performance OR cost, when things dont go together. Its not you fitting it at the end of the day. Overruns on time are at someones cost, likely to be customers, not garages.

shopping from assorted vendors may get you a dolly mixture, not a well conceived BT car.

hence I will be seeing you Mr Brockbank next year

 

[pj1985]

the best way by far is one stop shop for supply & fit, as you risk buying things in good faith you hope will work as a package, BUT when and if things dont go to plan, you will be responsible for providing the get out of "you supplied the parts sir".
It often does not work out that part a + b +c = "expected" performance OR cost, when things dont go together. Its not you fitting it at the end of the day. Overruns on time are at someones cost, likely to be customers, not garages.

shopping from assorted vendors may get you a dolly mixture, not a well conceived BT car.

I do agree Bill as it is easier and a known quantity to that tuner but at the same time I dont think all parts in some of the tuners kits are the best so hence not the best set up overall.

Using somebody like yourself is the best of both worlds because the parts you do have are made to a certain quality and for reasons based on performance and reliability which I think many tuners dont do with it more being about their own parts even when others are superior. You dont have this because you see it as if it was your own car and would only want the best...mostly because at one stage you were the customer for the parts you are now selling.

 

[ibizacupra]

I do agree Bill as it is easier and a known quantity to that tuner but at the same time I dont think all parts in some of the tuners kits are the best so hence not the best set up overall.

Using somebody like yourself is the best of both worlds because the parts you do have are made to a certain quality and for reasons based on performance and reliability which I think many tuners dont do with it more being about their own parts even when others are superior. You dont have this because you see it as if it was your own car and would only want the best...mostly because at one stage you were the customer for the parts you are now selling.

yep.

i do consider all prospective cars as if they were mine and how i would like them if mine... and had to live with them yes. Its a lot of ££ to do BT properly, so caution is advised.

bits from here and there inevitably dont quite ever go together. even bits from some people like atp dont go together.

quality is key, knowing what fails (from personal experience of pushing these things harder than road going use) you get to see failures well in advance.

I am choosy about what parts I care to resell or promote, and why I make some of my own parts via my friends CNC shop. This is a passion, not a money making exercise (i am openly no businessman, no idiot either) so the product portfolio is what it is based on personal experience in the main.

there are those about as we all know who promote their kit and slag everyone else's off.. well each to their own. I'll stick with knowing what works from what does'nt, and for those with good products, good for them, i will happily deal with them. those that dont, i wont. keeps it simple.

just beware folks, piecing a kit from several sources is more often than not a recipe for heartache and additional expence correcting it, or worse case having to start over.

regards
bill

 

[ryan_s3]

I'd like to see a hybrid 16/18g unit instead of a gt2871R , my 16g6 is running 400bhp+ and 400ft/lb+ no lag at all.Probably never happen! The gt2871r is a good alternative but for the difference in response i'd run a 3071r.
Just thought i'd add you won't go wrong with bill and let him spec all the bits that way there is never any hassle or wasted time.

 

[jamiebennett81]

I'd like to see a hybrid 16/18g unit instead of a gt2871R , my 16g6 is running 400bhp+ and 400ft/lb+ no lag at all.Probably never happen! The gt2871r is a good alternative but for the difference in response i'd run a 3071r.
Just thought i'd add you won't go wrong with bill and let him spec all the bits that way there is never any hassle or wasted time.

isn't the 3071r more laggy though? unless i go to a 1.9 lump, and have more CC's to flow....which is a stage I'm not looking to go to and just stick with the 1.8 lump

The reason I am looking to go with the 2871r is the spool times, as Bill mentioned it would be similar, if not better than my GT2x

what is a 16g6, as I see this mentioned alot, along with the 18g as well? is this similar to IHI?

can the 2871r flow 400bhp?

 

[ryan_s3]

Hi mate,
From logs i've seen there is not a massive difference in spool between the gt2871r and gt3071r ,you also would have to careful as i'd imagine it's quite easy to make the gt2871 surge.
16g6 is a big 16g and very similar to a 18g in size ,it's compressor is bigger than ihi and gt28rs but smaller than gt28/gt30 71R.
The gt2871R will make 400bhp with the hotside being the restiction hence why you put the gt30 housing on and it makes 450!
I'll try and get some graphs up later.
At the end of the day the 71R in any format is tried and tested on a 1.8t and there is kits available and a good tuner (bill).Job Done!
In would be nice to get a hybrid but one doesn't exist and probably never will!!!

 

[jamiebennett81]

Hi mate,
From logs i've seen there is not a massive difference in spool between the gt2871r and gt3071r ,you also would have to careful as i'd imagine it's quite easy to make the gt2871 surge.
16g6 is a big 16g and very similar to a 18g in size ,it's compressor is bigger than ihi and gt28rs but smaller than gt28/gt30 71R.
The gt2871R will make 400bhp with the hotside being the restiction hence why you put the gt30 housing on and it makes 450!
I'll try and get some graphs up later.
At the end of the day the 71R in any format is tried and tested on a 1.8t and there is kits available and a good tuner (bill).Job Done!
In would be nice to get a hybrid but one doesn't exist and probably never will!!!

sorry, bit of a newbie to discussing in depth for the BT side of things - how is surging created or what is the effect of this?

I would like to see a comparison of logs between the 28 and 30? are we talking a 200-300RPM in spool times?

18g I take it is bigger housing then from the 16g, still smaller than a 28/30 unit, so would 400bhp not be pushing the limit of this unit then?

also if the 28 will make 400, as you say, I sense this is pushing it a little and would shorten the life of the turbo....hence running the 30 to comfortably make 400

this is at the end of the day is going to be a daily driver, and seeing the issues that Hooch has had (although where these issues lye i.e. hardware etc I am unsure with his project), but I think with this aspect very clearly in my mind, 450 is just too much, so I would be more tempted to peg the power at 400,and if the 28 can happily cope with this and 400 is not shortening the life of this turbo too much then this is the tried and tested route I will be looking to go down

I have to recoop my finances a bit for now, after splashing out on a set of Oz leggera's and Brembo's, to finally give me some stopping power. Apart from that, the fundamentals are in place (PA FMIC, handling etc) to go BT and what ever kit Bill can offer me

sorry for all the questions by the way

 

[Ruddmeister]

I'd be thinking about doing this properly, doing it once and leaving some extra 'capacity' in the setup e.g. gt3071r running moderate boost rather than gt28....

Then again it's not my money

 

[jamiebennett81]

I'd be thinking about doing this properly, doing it once and leaving some extra 'capacity' in the setup e.g. gt3071r running moderate boost rather than gt28....

Then again it's not my money

that's exactly what I was thinking, the extra capacity as you put it well, to ensure the longevity of the turbo and not start to have issues with things cracking

 

[Ruddmeister]

that's exactly what I was thinking, the extra capacity as you put it well, to ensure the longevity of the turbo and not start to have issues with things cracking

That and as soon as you are used to the power (assuming you start low'ish) you can wind up the wick and scare yourself silly again without the cost of changing parts

 

[P-torque.co.uk]

Its best to go for a full good quality kit that has been designed and tested to work together. If you don't, theres a good chance you will be going round in circles chasing issues.

I'd budget at least £3500.00 excluding fitting.