Custom FMIC - design considerations

[Robbie C]

OK so I know this topic has been covered quite expansively before now but after reading through countless threads I've decided I'm probably going to go for a custom Forge FMIC in the next couple of months.

Next year I'll be running a Hybrid K03S setup (Turbo Dynamics MD445) with all accompanying mods but the big question for me is - what intercooler setup should I be looking at for the 280-300BHP region? Budget is very flexible for the right application.

Mods will be as follows:

MD445 K03S
LCR Injectors
4 bar FPR
BAM Fuel pump
ATP 2.5" TIP w/ 3" MAF and Jetex filter
JBS Tubular Collected Manifold
Custom-Code Stage 3 remap
Water/Meth injection

The main players are obviously the Pro Alloy and Forge off-the-shelf setups but the Pro alloy is probably a bit overkill for what I need and is so say an absolute pig to fit, whereas I'm looking for a relatively hassle free installation - ideally something like Myki's where it simply fitted straight behind the bumper (http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=152997). I'm also concerned about the Pro Alloy giving too much pressure drop on a K0x turbo, and I've heard the boost pipes are also sub-standard?

On the Forge side of things, their intercooler doesn't really fill the grill as much as I'd like, and I'm not convinced that the IC pipework is designed for optimal flow - unlike the TT setup for example which uses a different route altogether.

Another huge thing to consider here is that I also intend to run Water/Meth injection, which should compliment my FMIC setup.

I'm happy to source the pipework separately as I'd ideally like to follow the TT design. From reading through a few threads my main questions at this stage are:

1) If I use a TT charge pipe will I need to change my washer bottle or is there enough room to route down the side of the engine as standard??

2) How deep can the intercooler be if I want it to fit straight behind the bumper with no trimming? I know Myki ran a 40mm one but wasn't sure how much space this left? I.e. could I go 50mm or is that my lot?

Essentially, what do people think is the most effective setup for ~290 BHP region using water/meth?

Thoughts/comments appreciated

 

[Myki da Pyki]

Robbie mine never fitted straight behind the bumper, have to remember i had the Laguna set up before so the crash bar and slam panel would need to be mod'd slightly but the bumper wouldnt need modding, but i guess the only reason the slam panel needed modding was so it would fit central. Id be happy to give you a hand fitting it when you get it mate cos we're not far from each other

 

[Robbie C]

Nice one thanks Myki I'm just looking for a relatively hassle free installation that doesn't require me hacking my bumper to bits. Anyone know how deep the Forge one is as I know this requires the mesh to be removed?

I also need to determine whether the TT pipework requires me to replace my washer bottle with a smaller one or if there's enough room down there as standard.

 

[ChrisCurzon]

With my IC pipework (Dave Smiths old one) the washer bottle has to be changed mate, i just got one from the scrappy from a mk4 golf, think its a 3 litre one, gives plenty of clearance, oh and the horns may have to be moved, but ive just taken one off, sounds a bit like a toy car horn now, but oh well

I know when i asked Forge for a price on replicating Dave's cooler they said it would be around the £300 mark and a couple of weeks work, which IMO was a good price, its bigger than the Forge one most run but not as big as the huge pro alloy one, so should fill the grill a bit better, theres some pics in my prgoress thread if you want to have a look

 

[ibizacupra]

pro-alloy one is large, but i think their silicon pipe is absolutely awefull, flimsey stuff. it baloons big time and feels as soft as std hoses, which are cr4p too.

forge is minimal trimming, and probably adequate for a hybrid k0x turbo flow wise, offering large surface area.

 

[supercupra240]

mercedes sprinter fmic is massive, thats what iv got

 

[Myki da Pyki]

mercedes sprinter fmic is massive, thats what iv got

Mate seroiusly you dont have a clue about these cars, you need to take a step back and read alot on here. All your doing atm with you posts is amusing us big time.

Thants not a dig its advice mate

 

[supercupra240]

what u driving again?

 

[Myki da Pyki]

The off the shelf Forge kit is 50mm deep iirc which doesnt need any bumper mods apart from taking the mess off, although if the aircon came off it would fit with the mesh still on if you wanted that stealth look

 

[Myki da Pyki]

what u driving again?

A much quicker car than yours lol.

If you wonna question my knowlegde of the cupras you'l just be getting laughed at even more bud. Feel free to read my past threads ect.. and you'l see im far from amature

 

[Myki da Pyki]

u lads make me laugh lol u only running 295 and.... u think then everythink going thro u posts pff am so a standard gtir would leave u for dust lol

you also not understanding am running emerald ecu? what aint you understanding here?

I couldnt care what ecu your running mate an nor does anyone else, you still sound like you dont understand alot about these engines which is why im suggesting you take a look around before you post or you WILL get laughed at and be the JOKE of the site. Im saying this for your own benefit

 

[M87NER]

I couldnt care what ecu your running mate an nor does anyone else, you still sound like you dont understand alot about these engines which is why im suggesting you take a look around before you post or you WILL get laughed at and be the JOKE of the site. Im saying this for your own benefit

to late for him now...lol...

but if all this he is saying is 100% correct i dont know how long his car will be on the road for.

 

[MIkey kc]

mercedes sprinter fmic is massive, thats what iv got

isnt that intercooler basically the same as the laguna one?

 

[Robbie C]

Thanks for the comments so far - I've been doing some more reading today and think I'm going to go down the road of a custom Forge cooler with custom 2.5" alloy pipework (mandrel bent if possible).

While I'm well aware that IC size isn't everything, reading through other threads gave me an idea of what core sizes people are running on different coolers, which seems to be along the lines of:

Dave Smith's old AM FMIC:
========================

Core size: 540 x 170 x 65 = 5967000 (mm^3)


Myki's Custom Forge FMIC:
===================

Core size: 730 x 220 x 40 = 6424000 (mm^3)


THS Universal FMIC:
==============

Core size: 530 x 157 x 65 = 5408650 (mm^3)


Ebay Universal FMIC:
===============

Core size: 530 x 140 x 65 = 4823000 (mm^3)

Bearing in mind I'd like to go for a hassle free installation I'm therefore thinking of running a fairly "short" IC that fits beneath the crash bar, but longer and thinner than the Uni intercoolers to give a greater cooling surface area, making full use of the front bumper mouth (a bit like Myki's). Using a 50mm depth I can also maintain a core volume somewhere in the middle of Dave Smith's and Myki's, which I'm hoping ought to suit my Hybrid application (and prevent any pressure loss)?

What do people think of:

Custom Forge Core Size:
==================

Core size: 730 x 170 x 50 = 6205000 (mm^3)

I'll get in contact with Forge next week to get some technical input but this is where my thoughts are at this stage

 

[Myki da Pyki]

Thanks for the comments so far - I've been doing some more reading today and think I'm going to go down the road of a custom Forge cooler with custom 2.5" alloy pipework (mandrel bent if possible).

While I'm well aware that IC size isn't everything, reading through other threads gave me an idea of what core sizes people are running on different coolers, which seems to be along the lines of:

Dave Smith's old AM FMIC:
========================

Core size: 540 x 170 x 65 = 5967000 (mm^3)


Myki's Custom Forge FMIC:
===================

Core size: 730 x 220 x 40 = 6424000 (mm^3)


THS Universal FMIC:
==============

Core size: 530 x 157 x 65 = 5408650 (mm^3)


Ebay Universal FMIC:
===============

Core size: 530 x 140 x 65 = 4823000 (mm^3)

Bearing in mind I'd like to go for a hassle free installation I'm therefore thinking of running a fairly "short" IC that fits beneath the crash bar, but longer and thinner than the Uni intercoolers to give a greater cooling surface area, making full use of the front bumper mouth (a bit like Myki's). Using a 50mm depth I can also maintain a core volume somewhere in the middle of Dave Smith's and Myki's, which I'm hoping ought to suit my Hybrid application (and prevent any pressure loss)?

What do people think of:

Custom Forge Core Size:
==================

Core size: 730 x 170 x 50 = 6205000 (mm^3)

I'll get in contact with Forge next week to get some technical input but this is where my thoughts are at this stage

Looks like a good plan there rob with nice dimentions, nice to see my woks still being appreciated aswel lol.

 

[DaNnY_LaD]

I couldnt care what ecu your running mate an nor does anyone else, you still sound like you dont understand alot about these engines which is why im suggesting you take a look around before you post or you WILL get laughed at and be the JOKE of the site. Im saying this for your own benefit

Congrates on the little One mikey.....Hope there both doing well

 

[Myki da Pyki]

Congrates on the little One mikey.....Hope there both doing well

Cheers dan, much appreciated

 

[ChrisCurzon]

Congrates on the little One mikey.....Hope there both doing well

Cheers dan, much appreciated

Yeh i told him theres a boy now, to help you work on the skyline mate. Hope Mel and the little one are both ok mate

 

[ChrisCurzon]

Thanks for the comments so far - I've been doing some more reading today and think I'm going to go down the road of a custom Forge cooler with custom 2.5" alloy pipework (mandrel bent if possible).

While I'm well aware that IC size isn't everything, reading through other threads gave me an idea of what core sizes people are running on different coolers, which seems to be along the lines of:

Dave Smith's old AM FMIC:
========================

Core size: 540 x 170 x 65 = 5967000 (mm^3)


Myki's Custom Forge FMIC:
===================

Core size: 730 x 220 x 40 = 6424000 (mm^3)


THS Universal FMIC:
==============

Core size: 530 x 157 x 65 = 5408650 (mm^3)


Ebay Universal FMIC:
===============

Core size: 530 x 140 x 65 = 4823000 (mm^3)

Bearing in mind I'd like to go for a hassle free installation I'm therefore thinking of running a fairly "short" IC that fits beneath the crash bar, but longer and thinner than the Uni intercoolers to give a greater cooling surface area, making full use of the front bumper mouth (a bit like Myki's). Using a 50mm depth I can also maintain a core volume somewhere in the middle of Dave Smith's and Myki's, which I'm hoping ought to suit my Hybrid application (and prevent any pressure loss)?

What do people think of:

Custom Forge Core Size:
==================

Core size: 730 x 170 x 50 = 6205000 (mm^3)

I'll get in contact with Forge next week to get some technical input but this is where my thoughts are at this stage

You do defo need to get the 2.5" pipework, the difference is unreal, a lot more pull, and less bends and stuff mate. My cooler does require a lot of bumper trimmage mate, and i was running the laguna one before, so had cut a fair few bit and pieces away already

 

[Robbie C]

Cheers for the feedback - is that trimming to accomodate the 2.5" pipework where it joins the end tanks Chris? Your cooler is 65mm thick whereas I'm aiming for 50mm so hoping that *may* makes things slightly easier.