Leon Cupra or FR & Tuning options

[Scott.T]

Hi Guy's

Have just bought the family an Altea Reference Sport and am so impressed with it that I am thinking of moving on from my Subaru Impreza (owned 3 since 2001) and getting a Leon Cupra or FR.

Having seen the Mk2 Leon Cupra and the rather nice 1.6 Reference Sport 'with bodykit'.
I have decided it certainly needs the body kit.

If I wasn't so power hungry the Reference sport 1.6 with bodykit would do nicley.

However being used to 320-340BHP in my modified scoob, I need a bit of turbo power.


Now... my local dealer has an FR with the same bodykit. With the excpetion of the K1 I think this looks alot better then the standard Cupra.

If I were to get an FR (with bodykit) what would I be missing out on, that I would otherwise get with the Cupra ?

I would also like to know what the tuning options are for the 2.0TSi (is it really a Turbo and Supercharger, as the young lad at the dealer told me ? )

I have been remapping Subaru's as a hobby and part time business for 6 years (probably over 500 cars), so would like to remap the Leon if possible.

What options are out there for remapping ?
Has anyone cracked the ECU so that it can be properly mapped by the hobbiest ?
Or do you have to pay loads of dosh to a so called tuner (who more often then not just remove the boost limit and very little else).

Sorry for all the question...but it's a big jump from the Scoob to the Leon, so have many questions.

P.S Is there a turbo kit available for the 1.6 ???

 

[Al]

Hi Guy's

Have just bought the family an Altea Reference Sport and am so impressed with it that I am thinking of moving on from my Subaru Impreza (owned 3 since 2001) and getting a Leon Cupra or FR.

Having seen the Mk2 Leon Cupra and the rather nice 1.6 Reference Sport 'with bodykit'.
I have decided it certainly needs the body kit.

If I wasn't so power hungry the Reference sport 1.6 with bodykit would do nicley.

However being used to 320-340BHP in my modified scoob, I need a bit of turbo power.


Now... my local dealer has an FR with the same bodykit. With the excpetion of the K1 I think this looks alot better then the standard Cupra.

If I were to get an FR (with bodykit) what would I be missing out on, that I would otherwise get with the Cupra ?

I would also like to know what the tuning options are for the 2.0TSi (is it really a Turbo and Supercharger, as the young lad at the dealer told me ? )

I have been remapping Subaru's as a hobby and part time business for 6 years (probably over 500 cars), so would like to remap the Leon if possible.

What options are out there for remapping ?
Has anyone cracked the ECU so that it can be properly mapped by the hobbiest ?
Or do you have to pay loads of dosh to a so called tuner (who more often then not just remove the boost limit and very little else).

Sorry for all the question...but it's a big jump from the Scoob to the Leon, so have many questions.

P.S Is there a turbo kit available for the 1.6 ???

Now then mate, quite a few questions there.

Firstly, take a look at the various options there are for the FR or Cupra with regard to the body kit. The Aero kit is certainly popular, but regular Cupra/FR bumpers with Aero skirts and spoiler looks the biz

Cupra has uprated brakes and suspension over the FR and is a lot rarer.

Anyway, with regard to tuning, the FR TFSi and Cupra share tuning options.

FR TFSi starts at 200bhp
Cupra starts at 240bhp

Both can be remapped easily for £500.

FR can map to 240-250bhp
Cupra can map to 305-310bhp

On top of this, by adding a bigger intercooler, uprated fuel pump, turbo back exhaust and a decent intake...

FR TFSi - 280-295bhp
Cupra - 330-340bhp

A properly fettled Cupra will walk right past a Scooby STi PPP, WR1, RB320 or a P1 in a straight line as they are lighter than a Scooby and have more power to the wheels due to no 4x4 losses (a properly sorted one will make over 300bhp at the wheels).

That said, obviously, a sorted Cupra will waste all ST Focus/Astra VXR's with a standard turbo regardless of them being stage 3 or whatever.

The area that lets the car down is traction and the interior, but despite crap traction, a 1/4 mile time of mid 13's @ 107-108mph is available.

However it would be unwise for a Cupra driver to bother trying a quick Scooby on anything other than a straight road on a dry day when on the move as the traction of the Scooby would prevail over the whp of the Cupra.

If you want to get power you are used to, get the Cupra mate. It is cheaper to make it go faster.

PS - Both the FR and Cupra engines are similar with the Cupra having uprated parts over the FR (much like the STi has over the WRX) and the FR has a K03s turbo where the Cupra has a K04 turbo. Neither have as Supercharger as well as the turbo.

 

[alx_chung]

Hello and Welcome.
The sales person got it wrong I'm afraid, the FR and the Cupra only have Turbos on them. Its only the new 1.4 engine that is in the VW Golf GT that has the Turbo and Supercharger on it (soon to be in the Scirocco too)
Also what DJ said is good advice.
Alex

 

[Scott.T]

Thanks fo the quick reply.

I would probably go for an induction and decat exhaust option, if they are available.
Does it run a 2.5 inch system or is a 3 inch system available.

With regard to remapping, is this available for the home user i.e interface cable and s/w to allowing mapping from laptop using wideband AFR and detcans etc....I wouldn't fit a chip unless there was evidence of true mapping.

I'd rather live map it out on the road where it runs real world conditions.

Are there any aftermarket ECU options available ?

 

[Scott.T]

Hello and Welcome.
The sales person got it wrong I'm afraid, the FR and the Cupra only have Turbos on them. Its only the new 1.4 engine that is in the VW Golf GT that has the Turbo and Supercharger on it (soon to be in the Scirocco too)
Also what DJ said is good advice.
Alex

Oh right, well we were talking about the 1.4TSi Leon at the time, so he was right.
I then assumed the 2.0TSI was the same, hence the 'S' in TSI.

 

[Al]

There are a few systems available now. I am not sure that there is an off the shelf system with a true 3" system from the turbo back, but you can buy a 3" downpipe from the likes of Milltek with a race cat and then it narrows down to (I think) 2.75" from the downpipe (cat) back.

With regard to live mapping, not than I am aware of unless you get a piggy back ECU. Not sure if anyone has done this yet though.

The likes of Revo allows you to adjust boost, timing and fuel when the car is stopped via the comm port, but this is not exactly what you want.

 

[Scott.T]

The likes of Revo allows you to adjust boost, timing and fuel when the car is stopped via the comm port, but this is not exactly what you want.

It Sounds interesting, some of the Subaru S/W I use for 2001> models requires you to stop the car in order to re-flash (even the ECUTEK Dealer S/W, requires that).
Wheras the Apexi PFC and Pre96 Interface allow real live cell'by'cell editting while driving.

Does Revo provide a logging facility ?

The S/W I has a logger that works in conjuction with the ECU Map viewer and gives full feedback/ghost trace over the maps, so you can see exactly where the car is on the map at the point of concern.
You then make your changes where required on the map, stop car, reflash and go up the road again (or run it on the rollers again, if your a tuning workshop with RR).

 

[Al]

There is a tool available for VAG cars called VAGCOM info here thats does what you want. It is used by anyone who is interested in what the car is doing.

 

[DandB]

I test drove the Fr back to back with the Cupra and found that the Cupra was not just faster but handled better and the ride felt less bumpy. I think this must have been down to the lighter aluminium suspension! Test drive them both and you will know what i mean! Good luck!

 

[Fastbaz]

i have recently gone the other way i ran a mark 1 FR for about 2 years it was remapped to round 220 bhp and found THt in the dry in a staright line it was quick but in the wet on bends staright lines floor it and the traction control was on all the time and you looked stupid with the front wheels spinning... decided to go for a scoob and now have a 2005 wrx modded with the ppp pack what a differnec.e. it is running around 270 bhp instead of the normal 225 what a differnecE over the fr.... is def faster in a straight line and obbviuosly from a standing start goes like brown stuff cornering is better although if you push it you can just feel the grip start to go.... i certainly would not go back to the leon having driven both a scooby and the fr, but that is my preference ,,, only you can weigh up p the por's and cons'' the cupra is probaly more of a direct comparison to your scooby in terms of staright line speed over the fr but get one for a test drive see if you can borrow one for the day and really get a feel then make your decision.... good shopping

 

[InfernalBadger]

Oh right, well we were talking about the 1.4TSi Leon at the time, so he was right.
I then assumed the 2.0TSI was the same, hence the 'S' in TSI.

I think he was still wrong, afaik it's only the Golf 1.4 GT TSI that has a turbo and supercharger, the leon is a just a boring 1.4 turbo (Sorry to anybody who has one )

 

[Al]

i have recently gone the other way i ran a mark 1 FR for about 2 years it was remapped to round 220 bhp and found THt in the dry in a staright line it was quick but in the wet on bends staright lines floor it and the traction control was on all the time and you looked stupid with the front wheels spinning... decided to go for a scoob and now have a 2005 wrx modded with the ppp pack what a differnec.e. it is running around 270 bhp instead of the normal 225 what a differnecE over the fr.... is def faster in a straight line and obbviuosly from a standing start goes like brown stuff cornering is better although if you push it you can just feel the grip start to go.... i certainly would not go back to the leon having driven both a scooby and the fr, but that is my preference ,,, only you can weigh up p the por's and cons'' the cupra is probaly more of a direct comparison to your scooby in terms of staright line speed over the fr but get one for a test drive see if you can borrow one for the day and really get a feel then make your decision.... good shopping

Good post. I used to have a Scooby and I loved it. Point to point the Scooby would be quicker IMO, but in a straight line in the dry, a Cupra would have a Scooby on anything other than a standing start provided the Scooby was not tuned to eleventy million bhp on a non OEM turbo.

 

[Scott.T]

Good post. I used to have a Scooby and I loved it. Point to point the Scooby would be quicker IMO, but in a straight line in the dry, a Cupra would have a Scooby on anything other than a standing start provided the Scooby was not tuned to eleventy million bhp on a non OEM turbo.

Thanks for the replies guy's

Hmm, Maybe the Scoob will be staying then. I like the look and build of the Seat as the Altea and th earlier Mk1 Leaon we test drove certainly impressed me. Alot better then much more expensive, high spec Pug 407 I borrowed the other week.

However, my current scoob ('X' plate Classic UK shape) is running 320-340BHP (last RR day recorded 305BHP/305ftlb and have modded more since).
This is on aftermarket engine management, STi Turbo, Eibach's, uprated ARB, 8x18 inch alloys and STi 8 Brembo brake conversion . Still running stock block and gearbox.
So from what your saying the Leon has a long way to go to match the performance ??

The only reason the scoob isn't any quicker is that I have max'd the STi Turbo (1.4bar) and the injectors are running 98%.

 

[leviathan18]

you can go with both cars up to 500hp with the gt3071r kit

 

[RCS2K4]

Thanks for the replies guy's

Hmm, Maybe the Scoob will be staying then. I like the look and build of the Seat as the Altea and th earlier Mk1 Leaon we test drove certainly impressed me. Alot better then much more expensive, high spec Pug 407 I borrowed the other week.

However, my current scoob ('X' plate Classic UK shape) is running 320-340BHP (last RR day recorded 305BHP/305ftlb and have modded more since).
This is on aftermarket engine management, STi Turbo, Eibach's, uprated ARB, 8x18 inch alloys and STi 8 Brembo brake conversion . Still running stock block and gearbox.
So from what your saying the Leon has a long way to go to match the performance ??

The only reason the scoob isn't any quicker is that I have max'd the STi Turbo (1.4bar) and the injectors are running 98%.

Driven a Cupra yet? I think you'll give it more credit than it's worth. The tuning potential is also excellent, and not very expensive.

I've dropped about £1.8K on my car so far, and thats gained me a further 73BHP over stock power. She certinaly flies, and I had to alter very little to achieve it. A friend of mine with a 2004 WRX STi was aslo impressed by the way my Cupra flew off a roundabout mid-gear and left him in the rear view. If I spend a further £1k, I'll get a better intercooler, uprated fuel pump and map tweek. This will realise approx 340 BHP then.

The whole lot in total will cost £23K (£19.2K for the car), and there's got to be nothing you can buy as a new car thats quicker for the cash?

As mentioned in an earlier post, this will easilly sail past any car in it's class, and if you dont get to silly with the accelerator, you can keep her pointing in a straight line thru the bends to (learning to keep the car just under the boost point of the turbo so you dont wheelspin!). In it's current form, I would say the closest rival will be the new Focus RS (Not out yet).

Remember, were not biased here in any way!

 

[Al]

 

[Bakr!]

How about a Golf R32 mk5, 3.2liter? U could tune a R32 to increadible power and the handeling and traction are incredible.
what do u think compared to the new cupra 306 bhp.
and how much power could u get out of an r32?

 

[leviathan18]

How about a Golf R32 mk5, 3.2liter? U could tune a R32 to increadible power and the handeling and traction are incredible.
what do u think compared to the new cupra 306 bhp.
and how much power could u get out of an r32?

for 30000$ you can get something like 600hp if i remember correctly for a lot less you can add 500hp to a fr or cupra


if you want awd the s3 is the best option

 

[Bakr!]

s3's have a golf gti engine, but with a extra turbo charger i think lol
wot engine is in the cupra/fr?

 

[Hurdy]

S3, Cupra and Edition 30's all have the same base engine block and K04 turbo. If you are concerned about handling over power then the S3 is the one to go for if you can afford it. It will tune to nearly 350bhp and 350+lbft with a TBE, HPFP Forge DV and Custom-Code Phase 2 mapping.

http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/199684.aspx

I saw this car do 0-60 in 5.05 seconds in the wet at GTI International and a 13.5 quarter at the end!!!

The Cupra and ED30 have a slightly different compression ratio and so will produce slightly lower results and of course are FWD.

Similarly an Edition 30 with just a Revo map and Milltek managed 320 bhp and 357lbft and went down the standing quarter with the same times as the S3....but it was dry!!

I can only vouch for the handling in my Edition 30 (which is fantastic!) but it is quite heavily modified.