Leon Cupra R (Mk1, modified) Won't Start

PedroLCR

Active Member
May 23, 2016
15
0
Hi folks,

Long time lurker, first poster. I have a Leon Cupra R which I've owned for a few months that I'm having real problems getting to start. I've used the search and read numerous threads, but can't find one that exactly matches my problem (or where they do match, the posted solutions seem not to work).

I'm looking for some help either by way of pointers to local experts who I can pay to come out and help, or advice on possible causes and things to check.

It's a long story, so I'll try to summarise a bit, but will doubtless omit something important in doing so:

- Car rebuilt after a few years off the road,
- running BAM engine with turbo upgrade and custom map,
- following rebuild the car ran perfectly for several weeks then while driving stuttered and died,
- will not restart. Engine cranks but never fires,
- no useful fault codes logged.

AA arrived, suspected crank sensor had failed so towed back to the garage where it was built.

- crank sensor changed (no effect),
- testing revealed fuel pump isn't running and no sparks at any plugs,
- fuel pump does not prime when door opened,
- fuel pump relay and various other swapped with known-good parts from a running Mk4 GTI to no effect. The Golf still runs with the Leon's relays too,
- ecu removed and checked. Water damage apparent (got damp during storage). Ecu replaced with what we believed to be a known-good unit. Map & imob transferred.

When we fitted the new ecu, we got one rough start followed by it cutting out, then back to the original symptoms.

Still no fault codes.

At this point we got an auto electrician in to help. He's not a VAG expert but he checked what he could. All continuity tests on the loom to sensors/actuators passed ok.

At this point we began to suspect the replacement ecu might be at fault. We got a contact at an ecu specialist from the auto electrician, and sent the ecu off for bench testing.

Turns out we weren't dealing directly with the testing firm, but through another third party. Got very confusing reports back, first the ecu was fine, then it wasn't, then that it could be repaired, and then finally that it was totally irreparable. Don't really know what was done or what state that ecu was in.

Next, we sourced another definitely known-good ecu and installed this without changing the map or imob coding (expecting it'd start then cut out with an imob fault). Same result - engine cranks but will not fire.

I'm worried that something in the car is killing the ECUs. Is that likely/possible?

I'm now pretty much out of ideas. I'm neither a mechanic nor an electrician, but have a reasonable knowledge of electronics and a basic working knowledge of engine stuff.

Does anyone have any suggestions for further diagnostics I could try? Have vagcom and multimeters, but not much more specialist than that.

Or does anyone know anybody really good with this stuff around west central Scotland who it'd be worth getting out or taking the car to?

Thanks for any & all help!

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PedroLCR

Active Member
May 23, 2016
15
0
Just another quick thought (now that you've got me paranoid about the pump again)... if the pump was dead, wouldn't I still get a spark at the plugs?

Kinda feels like the ecu isn't sending the right signals out to the relays to run the pump, power the coils etc. But that could well be rubbish; not sure if the starter turning means ecu is definitely sensing the right start up signals, or if the starter motor is hardwired directly to the key barrel.

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hombre_paulo

Active Member
Jan 12, 2013
157
3
Sorry about that! It was just the first thing that came to mind when you mentioned that the pump wasn't priming when you open the drivers door. But you are right it shouldn't stop spark at the plugs which is the odd bit.

My fuel pump died recently and it just flat out wouldn't start. It never spluttered prior to going though.
 

Turbosnail270

Active Member
May 22, 2016
5
0
Would the ECU and immobiliser need to be synced? If your fuel pump is working when directly powered and your not gettin a spark... With the intermittent starting and cutting out small possibility the imob is playing a part in the problem.... Just a thought.
 

PedroLCR

Active Member
May 23, 2016
15
0
Would the ECU and immobiliser need to be synced? If your fuel pump is working when directly powered and your not gettin a spark... With the intermittent starting and cutting out small possibility the imob is playing a part in the problem.... Just a thought.
I've thought it could be imob a few times, but discounted it because:

1. ECU1 was the original unit so should have been in sync. ECU2 got synched with it. ECU3 isn't synched but behaves the same as 1&2.
2. I've read and been told that the imob being out of sync should let it consistently start and run for a second before cutting off. I've only managed 1 or 2 very grudging starts, vast majority of the time it just spins. That doesn't seem to match expected behaviour if it was the imob.

That all said, I know they can be awkward critters so I'll test further.

I'll put ECU3 in the Golf when I can get to borrow it again. If it consistently starts and runs for 1 second as I'd expect, then I've ruled out immobiliser I think. If it behaves the same as the Leon then I've still either a dead ECU or an imob problem... right?

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Leon1600s

Once a 1600, now an LCR
Sep 17, 2011
115
0
Berkshire
Checked / Tried a known good cam position sensor? These can prevent starting.

Probably a way to check through vagcom - hopefully someone more clued up can let you know about this one.
 

PedroLCR

Active Member
May 23, 2016
15
0
Checked / Tried a known good cam position sensor? These can prevent starting.

Probably a way to check through vagcom - hopefully someone more clued up can let you know about this one.
I don't think we have tried the cam sensor yet, just the crank. I'll see if I can get my hands on a spare and give it a try.

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PedroLCR

Active Member
May 23, 2016
15
0
Been back at it again today still getting nowhere. No cam sensor to hand, so not tried that yet.

Running vcds and looking at the measuring blocks while trying to start, I'm getting no engine speed reading at all.

Popped the crank sensor and checked the readings while waving a screwdriver over the sensor, still no reading.

It's a brand new sensor, so confident it isn't at fault.

Anyone know the pin outs for the cam plug and ecu plug so I can redo continuity tests? And what voltages I should be seeing at the sensor end with the ecu plug in before and during cranking?

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PedroLCR

Active Member
May 23, 2016
15
0
Been thinking about this some more...

The fuel pump doesn't prime when the door is opened. That's leading me away from it being anything to do with the crank sensor.

It's more like the whole circuit with fuel, spark and crank sensor is dead. They are all wired together, right?

Given that the fuses and relays are all good, any suggestions of what to test / swap next?

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philee2205

Active Member
May 24, 2016
6
0
I don't know anything like this car as you obviously do but I bought an 02 cupra this week. I got 2 keys with it. 1 with the central locking buttons on it. And 1 without. I noticed the central locking isn't working but for the mo it fits all doors etc it also fits the ignition but it doesnt start the car it just turns over. But the other key starts it first time?! I don't know if this is relevant. Can any of the geniuses on here give me a pointer on the central locking. Is it the key?. Thanks in advance for any help guy's.

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Bigjohn84

Intagram / johnyoung84
May 5, 2015
2,330
1
I don't know anything like this car as you obviously do but I bought an 02 cupra this week. I got 2 keys with it. 1 with the central locking buttons on it. And 1 without. I noticed the central locking isn't working but for the mo it fits all doors etc it also fits the ignition but it doesnt start the car it just turns over. But the other key starts it first time?! I don't know if this is relevant. Can any of the geniuses on here give me a pointer on the central locking. Is it the key?. Thanks in advance for any help guy's.

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You need to program the key mate to the car, the immobiliser isn't working, next time you want information start a new thread also
 
Last edited:

PedroLCR

Active Member
May 23, 2016
15
0
Problem solved. Had a loose ground connection from the ecu (very well hidden). Seems it had found a ground for a while, hence it running, but the came loose leading to the no-start and range of odd symptoms.

Thanks for all the help & suggestions!

I'll be back with some pics n info on the car once we've got everything tidied up and it's back in the road.

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Dec 23, 2021
4
0
Problem solved. Had a loose ground connection from the ecu (very well hidden). Seems it had found a ground for a while, hence it running, but the came loose leading to the no-start and range of odd symptoms.

Thanks for all the help & suggestions!

I'll be back with some pics n info on the car once we've got everything tidied up and it's back in the road.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Hi I know this is an old thread, but I was wondering if you could help me, I'm having the exact same issue, but not tried a different ECU

Backstory
Car got wrote off
Bought a shell
Swapped engine and clocks ect to new body, paired all up.
Car cranks, no spark, no fuel pump priming.
Checked 409 relay


Where about's was the ground?

Tyia
 

mty12345

Active Member
Jun 17, 2011
3,768
475
bristol
Hi I know this is an old thread, but I was wondering if you could help me, I'm having the exact same issue, but not tried a different ECU

Backstory
Car got wrote off
Bought a shell
Swapped engine and clocks ect to new body, paired all up.
Car cranks, no spark, no fuel pump priming.
Checked 409 relay


Where about's was the ground?

Tyia
Can you communicate with the ECU?
Ground would be around the ECU in the scuttle under the wipers.
Usually if it's the immo it will start briefly and cut out, so i'd say faulty ECU or ECU wiring is most likely.
 

Yellow fr

Gone to new owner so seat less for now
Sep 6, 2018
1,547
1,062
Sandbeds West Yorkshire
Hi I know this is an old thread, but I was wondering if you could help me, I'm having the exact same issue, but not tried a different ECU

Backstory
Car got wrote off
Bought a shell
Swapped engine and clocks ect to new body, paired all up.
Car cranks, no spark, no fuel pump priming.
Checked 409 relay


Where about's was the ground?

Tyia

Did you swap the immobiliser chips from the keys


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Dec 23, 2021
4
0
Can you communicate with the ECU?
Ground would be around the ECU in the scuttle under the wipers.
Usually if it's the immo it will start briefly and cut out, so i'd say faulty ECU or ECU wiring is most likely.
Yes communication is there, everything worked and have had immo off anyway took the ECU to Bellman's and he said it was fine.

I'll have a look, the engine and clocks and ECU ect ect had been swapped into was done in a rush so it may have been overlooked.i didn't know there was a ground under there.
 
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