MKII Rally Suspension

bushman

Guest
Hi Guys,

Looking for some parts and or advice:
We've been using Bilstein Polo GpN Gravel rear struts for the last couple of years but need something better, the problem started with the fact the polo units are 50mm longer than ideal so have been using helper srings to allow car to sit at correct ride height but so the springs remain located when airborne. After the Sunseeker this year I noted a small bend at the top of the shaft which had been caused by the spring platform colliding with the strut under full compression, as a safety precaution strut was changed and new top mounts machined to prevent a repeat.
However last weekend on Tempest Rally we managed to destroy the new strut and bend the other unit as well as the beam, not by hitting anything but just not lifting on the bumpier sections of Ash & Longmoor stages (youtube has in-car).
The front end has some proper ex-SBG Bilsteins which were fine.

So shopping list contains
Rear Strut assemblies - type TBA
Rear Beam Gti circa 97-99 (although might try one without anti-roll bar if one became available at right price)

Any thoughts on what to use or availability of Parts gratefully received.:help:
 

bushman

Guest
No, we built it from scratch, was 1400 salsa but now GpB 2000 16V
 

R French

Full Member
Hi - I use a MKII cupra on Road Rally events in the ANEMC and ANCC events - Suspension is a pig to find. Bilstein make the suspension but now the official supply outlet is Euro car parts they will not sell the rally spec dampers. From memory they were classed as: VA Ashphelt, VA Gravel and there was a mixed ashphelt/gravel damper too, front and rear with wider dimeter top mounts. The message I got from ECP was "If you can get a part number, we can supply them". Bilstein would not supply the number. I then contacted Northern South to see if they could supply the units and to be honest they did not inherit much of the F2 or Super Six stuff so sniffed around to see if Steve Black could shed any light on suppliers but have had no luck tracking him down.
So I, like you am stuck to repace the Billies on the car. RobT on the forums was sorting a group buy for proflex but the cost has gone up beyoned his control. The only cheap alternative I have found is the KYB adjustables but have not dared run them yet as they are Polo specific. Evo make a good 3way damper but is expensive and again Ohliens are even more than Proflex.
My solution for the short term is: Caddy TDi front springs & Otteinger tarmac dampers with Cordoba SX rear springs and Sachs tarmac dampers. They work ok but you spend all your time with the rear wheel in the air and it's a little roly. PM me if you want the Billie contacts to try and get some joy out of them. If you have any contacts in Germany you can get them from Bilstein.de no problems and avoid the ECP route. If I get to find someone who will sell them I'll let you know, can you do likewise please as the lack of bits is beyond a joke for these cars. Chris Eyre on club GTi may be a good source too for VW motorsport bits but they are not always directly transferrable other than the golf3 Kit car engine adn box stuff. Cheers, Rich
 

ronnie35

Active Member
Mar 29, 2006
56
0
Aberystwyth
Decent motorsport suspension for Ibiza's its tricky. After rallying Ibiza's for over 4 years now, i think ive finally arrived at a nice set up. Although im rather apprehensive of giving out this information on this forum if you pm me i can tell you what im running. All ill say is it took a lot of trial and error, their essentially motorsport dampers front and rear and everything except the front strut casings are off the shellf items at any decent motorsport retailer,and twas a doddle to fit!. Oh also ive even managed to do away with those awful OE top mounts with motorsport top mounts!

Like i said im very happy how the car now handles. Ive sat (as a navigator) in loads of different rally cars, and consider my Ibiza as very good.

But this is all someone behind a pc i know, the car can be seen on many road rallys across wales. What im saying is, im talking from first hand experience.

And cost, it came out at around the 1k mark.



Reian
 

nog986

Active Member
Mar 14, 2008
99
0
N. Ireland
Hi ronnie, build nearly at a standstill. My work is so busy I just aint got the time. Now the winter nights are here I might get some more done. Lots of research on suspension though and there are a few options out there.(Sticking to the thread). Found a supplier for the bilstein units (gpA and spanish cup), proflex look good and KW can do a good setup. Trying to get details on ohlins at the mo. Got some info a couple of years ago on DMS for a golf so would say they could do something as well.
Research plenty but actual work progress little. :censored:
 

bushman

Guest
Hi Guys,
Thank you for your various inputs, I believe I have established the cause of the catastrophic failure to be the upper mount being a cross-bolted rose joint at the top of the threaded section of the shaft; this has moved the lateral torque significantly higher than intended creating initially a bend in the shaft which allowed the top cap to sit pressed up under the turret causing the shft to have a significant bend moment which when impacted by one of the jumps or holes has boken the hardened section of the shaft.
I don't have a certain explanation for the beam but this could simply be down to the additional load once the N/S strut had given up.

The plan is to revert to concentric spherical mount in the turret which will bring the overall length down by the 50mm too!
Previous setup had worked fine on the Sachs units fitted to the mkII golf which donated the majority of the Seat build parts after expiring in a Dalby roll.

FYI there are some great guys in Sweden I use for interest parts like 2-turn PAS rack: www.sellholm.se - site is in swedish but Rikard there is very helpful and speaks good english.

I'll update the photos on my www.rallyseat.co.uk website shortly - I have various ones including a number of the build.
Thanks again

BR
Bushman

P.S. I am still looking for a suitable rear beam if anyone can assist. :D
 

Dave_R

Save a Sheep...Buy Brembo
Sep 20, 2004
3,666
1
South Wales
Hows the build coming along nog 986?

Whats suspension did you go for Dave?

I got Koni Sport Adjustable shocks now..... something to mess around with now at track days lol Not good enough for rallying but ideal for what I use it for I guess
 
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nog986

Active Member
Mar 14, 2008
99
0
N. Ireland
Make sure your sitting down before you read their prices:D. What he did say was though that the grpA units would be more suitable than the challenge items.
They will have a stand at autosport in January. The guys though are quite helpfull.

Proflex though seem to be the best value at the moment.

Did you ever find any homogation papers?
 

RobT

Full throttle trip
Nov 30, 2001
2,538
1
Congleton
Visit site
How did the bilstein investigation go?

I have been looking for new suspension units for my hillclimb car and had a right time with Bilstein - bilstein germany said I should buy PSS9's even though I told them they were valved for springs too soft and were too long a unit......they did not help any further. They referred me to the UK outfit in Leicester who were useless also, 'oh you need PSS9's sir'.....no alternative was suggested

KW were very helpful but now the euro has shifted so much they were too dear (£1800 for their competition units built to my specification). Having them in Germany made me nervous also when making bespoke units.

I ended up going with the new Leda company who have re-established themselves in Derby about 1hr from my house. They have been bought by EPM technology group who make cool things for F1 and the like in carbon. A visit established that their workshops were spotless and they had the all important shock dyno. I have no worries about them fitting my car since I took them my old units and top mounts and they are building them to fit appropriately (with a few mods). They dyno tested my old units so we had a clear starting point for developments. Have odered some to be collected week after next. Will post up how I get on. £900 for a pair of fronts made to measure, plated finish, with double top notch eibach springs. These are fully serviceable also.

They do rally spec units for those who may be interested. At some point I will swap my rear Spax units for some also so if there is more interest, maybe we can get a bargain on a multi-buy.

http://www.leda.com/pages/products.html

Cheers

Rob
 
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R French

Full Member
Bilsteins = very very expensive from Spain so not worth looking at any more if you are on a tight budget.
Are the Leda units 3 way or just the old style bomb proof ones they used to make?
A few guys are running enduro spec road rally Rover 200/25's with Ledas and they sit very well on rough gravel and they are ultra reliable. Let me know how you get on!
Rich
 

RobT

Full throttle trip
Nov 30, 2001
2,538
1
Congleton
Visit site
these are the single adjustable bomb-proof units - they have stopped routinely making the 2 and 3 way units as they say the benefit is not worth the money and most people dont know how to adjust them anyhow......fair comment I'd say
 
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