New Leon Cupra Specification 2.0 TFSI 240 hp

[NeilW]

It's bugged me for a while this whole VAG business. Who pays for the car's development? The MK2 Leon is often refered to as being based on the MK5 Golf platform. Does that mean VW paid for its development and all Seat did was stick a different body and interior on?

As for the new Cupra, surely it's just a Golf GTi that's been remapped (and bigger brakes). Have VW done all the hard work and Seat taken all the glory, or does it not work like that?

 

[dangel]

...It's a car not a space ship .......are you OK? or is the heat affecting your brain?

Lol - probably I'll pop my tin foil hat back on to see if it helps TBH I'm always worse when sober..


New Front end for CTR:

 

[dangel]

The Civic is quite interesting because, as I understand it, they dropped the independent suspension which was on the original car to save money for other goodies on the new model. All the Civics I have fancied in the showroom have been at least £18000.

As the new Leon uses the new independent suspension setup I assume SEAT either have to charge more for the car or claw back the cost elsewhere.

Heard the same about the Civic with the press seeing it as a step back - it'll be interesting to see what they come up with. I hope Honda do a special buck rogers edition now - just for Syphon

 

[Ol' Timer]

It's bugged me for a while this whole VAG business. Who pays for the car's development? The MK2 Leon is often refered to as being based on the MK5 Golf platform. Does that mean VW paid for its development and all Seat did was stick a different body and interior on?

As for the new Cupra, surely it's just a Golf GTi that's been remapped (and bigger brakes). Have VW done all the hard work and Seat taken all the glory, or does it not work like that?

I always assumed that VAG as a whole developed new floorpans, engines and gearboxes etc. and that these were then used by the individual brands and tweaked to suit their particular requirements. So by adjusting damper and spring settings Skoda could come up with a comfy but soft ride whereas SEAT's would have a ride which would remove your fillings but, hopefully, the handling would be sharper.

 

[andyb]

Or pay Pedro less to build it

things have to change.

Despite us thinking cars are expensive, most manufactures are in real trouble. VW have laid off loads of people in Germany and there Golf based cars are i) too expensive to make and ii) too many variants. Similar thing with Mercedes (only Chrysler is really making money and the popularity of the 300C is already tailing off here). GM is in dire, real dire straits and wont survive as they currently are.

Ford are also in trouble with big losses and major redunencies here as well. Give you some idea. Ford refreshened the old Focus here, so we dont have the new car. It sales for the 20-25k Canadian (10-12,500 pounds) and they loose 1500-2500 pound on every one they sale!!! - but they cant risk loosing their position in this market place (big saloons and pick-ups sale more here).

Much of this is being brought on by the Korean manufactures. Kia and Hyundai are now easily a match for any of the domestic brands here. Another cycle and they will be up with EU levels....and watch out for China too.

So, companies and cars will have to change. Enjoy it while you can.

 

[andyb]

To me the new Civic is the opposite to the Leon. In photos the Leon tends to look a bit tall and bulbous. On the road I find they look surprisingly long and low. On the other hand the Civic looks pretty good in photos but on the road it looks short, tall and dumpy and a bit boring. I never trust photos these days!

i've only seen one briefly...and in a showroom. Dont trust pictures and dont trust showrooms. See a car in its natural habitat

 

[Ol' Timer]

Much of this is being brought on by the Korean manufactures. Kia and Hyundai are now easily a match for any of the domestic brands here. Another cycle and they will be up with EU levels....and watch out for China too.

Hyundai are having some problems with their employees now.

http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=14884&ref=archive

With the rise of the internet and improved communications it is impossible to keep your employees isolated from the rest of the world. So as each new nation comes along with low labour costs their expectations gradually increase and the price advantage will be lost to the next emerging nation.

Skoda's employees are already questioning why they get paid a lot less than their German VW counterparts despite producing a better quality product, according to some reviews. They won't be content to be the underdogs for ever and then prices will have to rise. I am sure the same thing will happen to Korea and China.

 

[xyz]

I think the new Cupra looks dead cool but Seat have to be careful what they charge for the car and what they charge for the options. The entry level Focus ST has ESP as an option - with all that poke, it should be standard! As for the Astra VXR - £19000 for a hatchback that can't accelerate in a straight line - and every dealer I used when I owned a succession of Vauxhalls were utter pants which is why I will never have a Vauxhall on my drive. If Seat charge about £18500, they will be on to a winner - slap bang between Ford & Vauxhall but with all that poke, shouldn't those four pot Brembos be standard?
Incidentally, Humphris of Oxford have a road going version of the BTCC car with big arches and wheelbarrow handle exhausts and it looks even better than the Cupra!

 

[mrcoyote]

I think the new Cupra looks dead cool but Seat have to be careful what they charge for the car and what they charge for the options. The entry level Focus ST has ESP as an option - with all that poke, it should be standard! As for the Astra VXR - £19000 for a hatchback that can't accelerate in a straight line - and every dealer I used when I owned a succession of Vauxhalls were utter pants which is why I will never have a Vauxhall on my drive. If Seat charge about £18500, they will be on to a winner - slap bang between Ford & Vauxhall but with all that poke, shouldn't those four pot Brembos be standard?
Incidentally, Humphris of Oxford have a road going version of the BTCC car with big arches and wheelbarrow handle exhausts and it looks even better than the Cupra!

The ST2 comes at £18,495 which includes ESP, a heated screen and Xenons, with full leather for an additional £1k, so it's not actually all that expensive when you think about it. You're right that the Cupra has the potential to be a very good car, but it all depends on the pricing. From the looks of things though a lot of things that people expect to be standard are an optional extra which will only serve to push the price up.

 

[Deleted member 7659]

I'm sure the pricing will be right in the middle of the competition - Seat can't afford to offer less bang per $ than what's considered to be an excellent selection of cars in the Astra/Focus/Type R mould. The additional power over the competition will help, I'm sure in the balance!

I was at the show yesterday, and had a chat with a couple of people on the stand - it's clear they've been reading the opinions here, and also that the Cupra as shown may well change quite a bit before its release date. It's basically a bit of a customer clinic at the moment on a grand stage, as I'm sure mOrk is alluding to.

The bodykit that's available already should fit the Cupra, and that includes the twin pipe exhaust. There was also talk of perhaps a centre exit option.

For me, the outside has grown on me but the dash is a real letdown. In particular the centre console on the Cupra looked like something Ford threw up for the old Focus with nasty ali/plastic. The displays need to be bigger to take up some of the acres of bare plastic, or better still a complete new centre console in a softer material. I'm sure option kits to replace it will be available, but IMHO it's out of place at whatever price.

I had a look at the VXR (1st time near one) and the centre console in that (admitedly with sat nav) is really nice. 19" rims on the show car as well, but not nearly as practical as the Leon so rules it out for me.

What is it with current cars and stoopid narrow boot openings and shallow boots?! And that's after they've removed the spare wheel.....

Have to wait till later in the year now to see the final version and get a test drive in and see what I think then.

Adrian

 

[m0rk]

I was at the show yesterday, and had a chat with a couple of people on the stand - it's clear they've been reading the opinions here, and also that the Cupra as shown may well change quite a bit before its release date. It's basically a bit of a customer clinic at the moment on a grand stage, as I'm sure mOrk is alluding to.

I think more than a few staff asked me on the day how it was being received once they realised I was doing live updates

The car & spec you see is a preview, rather than a finished UK spec (as you point out)

 

[20vtB0b]

I must say that (like the new forum theme ) the Cupra is starting to grow on me I've just watched the unveiling video on MSN cars and the car does look really good. My only worry is the quality of the interior plastics, a colleague at work (who also has an LCR) sat in an FR and he was very unimpressed by the amount of plastic in the dashboard, what did you think of the interior m0rk ?

It all now depends on how much they ask for it (and how much dealers will discount that price).

Bob

 

[m0rk]

The quality looks to be there wrt fit & finish. But how it'll sound / creak over 3 yrs I couldn't guess

it's not an audi soft dash, but then most cars have moved away from tactile dashboards recently

 

[Ruddmeister]

I was in Xjib's Aerokitted Leon TDi the other day and in the flesh was actually surprised at the quality of the interior. There are quite large areas of dash and 95% of it looked good.

The only one thing I didn't like was the plastic area around the climate control and headunit..

Everything else impressed me including road holding, grip etc

Have to say the Aerokit on a silver car looked sweet

 

[dangel]

I think more than a few staff asked me on the day how it was being received once they realised I was doing live updates

The car & spec you see is a preview, rather than a finished UK spec (as you point out)

Good - then there's still hope they can sort a few things out. Sounds like candidates atm are the rear end, interior (which sounds like it hasn't been sorted from the FR) and (with a bit of luck) the wheels (which do nothing for me). Perhaps it's too late for the interior but the externals as mentioned are pretty easy even this late in the day.

xyz: " and every dealer I used when I owned a succession of Vauxhalls were utter pants which is why I will never have a Vauxhall on my drive."

That (unfortunately) is the experience of many SEAT owners too (including myself).

mrcoyote: "The ST2 comes at £18,495 which includes ESP, a heated screen and Xenons, with full leather for an additional £1k,"

So it'll be interesting to see if SEAT think they can sell at a higher price with a similarly specced car. I wonder how much of that lot will be standard on the Cupra and if not, how much the options will work out as.

I did the wife test last night - showed her a pic and she wasn't impressed

 

[Ol' Timer]

The most important question – does the Mk2 version keep out the rain?

 

[Ruddmeister]

that ....and when do the 4wd 2 door convertable and 220bhp Diesel versions arrive ????

 

[dangel]

Do the coilpacks work in this version?

 

[fivetones]

I was in Xjib's Aerokitted Leon TDi the other day and in the flesh was actually surprised at the quality of the interior. There are quite large areas of dash and 95% of it looked good.

The only one thing I didn't like was the plastic area around the climate control and headunit..

It's exactly that the made me and my partner look at an a3 s-line. In the end though we realised that the FR is good value for money compared to the a3 (which was a 1 yr old 140TDI, still 2.5K more in price). We ordered the FR TDI in the end though (yesterday in fact).

The Cupra looks nice in that dark colour (the choice of colours for the FR is a bit lacking...black being the nicest to us). Shame there's no higher powered TDI.

 

[YerMother]

Do the coilpacks work in this version?

The latest revision of coilpacks work fine now so far as i know!

I've never had a problem!

*touches wood*