Quattro Cupra R Mk2 Project

Gagwithgaffer

Active Member
May 28, 2013
78
0
North Yorkshire
REVO Stage 4... The BIG BUILD! cont...

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Manufacturer X support team’s response was we could simply bend the oil jets out the way of the skirt wall in order to avoid the collision. We immediately thought this was a bad idea and entered into some weeks of hard debate over the suitability of their suggestion. It transpired that we could not rotate the jet round on the axis anyway, the bolt holding it in place had a square edge and could not be altered.

The above situation drew some differences in opinion of whether re-manipulating the oil jet was an acceptable solution, some modded car tuners have been known to completely remove the oil jets from their cylinder when encountering such a situation.

Some points of consideration though:

We were re-building this engine with a hefty gain in power on the cards, this obviously increases the cylinder temps by far to the point we have to ensure we give the engine the best possible chance of cooling under heavy load.

Why was Manufacturer X telling us to re-manipulate a component that was never designed to be altered and would likely weaken it, given the oil jet was hollow in its construction and would likely buckle the tubing under heavy bending and load.

What problems might we encounter after bending the jet into its new position i.e having suitable clearances from other key engine components


Despite our concerns, we followed the advice given from Manufacturer X and tried bending one of the jets outwards, before putting the unit back into the cylinder and checking for the correct fitment:


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It was quite awkward to see what we were doing, but the issues in hand were pretty evident:


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The only way to get the correct clearance from the inner skirt wall was to bend the vertical stem outwards, far enough into the cylinder chamber in that we then faced another issue! The tip of the jet was positioned so close to the con rod that it was almost touching. This obviously wasn’t a viable solution, so we went back to Manufacturer X with our findings:


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We continued scratching our heads whilst their tech support team kept telling us to bend the jet out of the way. We did some further research by referring to the manufacturer’s website and reviewing their technical documentation:


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Some weeks had passed following a ping pong of emails backwards and forwards.

We came to our own conclusion that these pistons, although listed for our engine, were not in fact designed specifically for the 2.0 TFSi. Whether these units were taken from a base design off the shelf and some assumptions were made about their correct fitment we don’t know for sure. In reality we were given pistons that did technically fit correctly within the cylinder, but the clearance designed for the oil jets were positioned on the opposite side of the piston to where our jets were actually located.

After some further digging, to our amazement we then discovered an extract from the manufacturer’s website which pre-warned of the dangers in re-manipulating the oil jets for installation:


Will they clear my oil squirters?

“Yes. In fact, Manufacturer X’s engineering department created a computerized 3D model of all factory oil squirters during the design of the asymmetrical pistons to ensure proper clearance. Furthermore, the design of the forging allows for the oil to spray in the correct position to keep the pistons cool. Be cautious with other piston designs that require the oil squirters to be removed or block the oil from spraying in the manufacturers intended location.”


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Given our above findings, we realised we had to find another solution, so we put our case forward to Manufacturer X and requested a refund from our suppliers straight away.

This issue put many weeks of delays back on our build and our sense of morale was shrinking by the day. We were back to square one and could not see a quick resolution in sight.

After some further enquiries we got in touch with an engine machinist who said they could help.

Unfortunately the story didn’t end here though, our dealings with this machinist was soon to bring another nightmare to the process!

Machinist X offered to take on our original Wossner pistons and drill new custom pockets into the head, in order that we could get the necessary clearance for the new cams. After some discussion with the team, we felt this was the best option moving forward and decided to go ahead with the works. In order for Machinist X to carry out the task, we had to send away the head, block and pistons, so we ended up having to remove the whole engine (which otherwise wouldn’t have been required) This obviously added more time to the project, but was a necessity for us to move forward.

The engine block was removed from the car and sat patiently on the side until we gathered all the kit ready to send away…



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It was a little daunting to see Kung Fu without a heart! But Andy and his team do these jobs day in day out and was of course no issue or concern for these professionals! Stripping out the car’s interior before during the AWD conversion was a little scary! but more so because I did that laborious task myself! lol

Kung Fu had now become one of the slowest Cupra Rrrrs in existence! but not for long ;)


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The engine laid on a shelf for some weeks until the pistons arrived back from Machinist X


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The Wossner units are well formed in that the crown is deep enough to drill the pockets without weakening the head, a great design and solid construction, they would take some real hammering before any troubles are encountered.

We eventually got the Wossner units back from Machinist X and took one look at them…. the room went silent!

One of the challenges for this task was the machinist had to find the centre point of the valve and mark the correct location for drilling the pockets. In order to find this centre point, certain measurements had to be carried out and using specialist tools to mark the centre points for drilling.

Looking at the photo below, it was pretty evident that Machinist X had used inappropriate tools for the job, using some kind of a punch tool or similar device, they hammered four big dimple marks into the top of the crown with a lot of force! We were left with deep indents and some uneven surfaces, along with rough edges that had to be ground out. The method used for marking these centre points left us with permanent damage to piston heads and we couldn’t see any means of rectification.


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These indents were bound to create hot spots in the cylinder and would likely damage the piston over time under heavy loads. The valve pockets were also machined quite poorly, leaving rough filings around the edges!

I got in contact with Machinist X who claimed there was no issue with the works carried out, in our opinion, this clearly wasn’t the case.

One Saturday morning, one of our contacts (Lee X who is a specialist engine machinist) popped by to inspect the units for us and condemned the works. I had to go back to Machinist X and battle out our concerns which put even more delays on the project. We reviewed the issue amongst our own team and concluded that we could not carry on with the pistons in this condition.

So after this second attempt, we were back to square one…AGAIN! Grrrrrrrrr

After further discussions with Lee, he very kindly offered to help us. Lee was a silent partner for the project, but was key to the completion of this phase of works and therefore offer our upmost appreciation for his help and support.

Lee has many year’s experience with specialist machining and fabrication for automotive projects, he is currently installing a V8 engine into the back of his van and converting it to rear wheel drive. The guy is a real character and a bit of a nutter! but very very talented! lol

Luckily I did not pay Machinist X for the works they had done, but IMO they had wrecked a perfectly good pair of pistons and as such, I had to purchase a new set from Wossner to start the process all over again! Including the additional labour I was now 600 smackers down! :(

We bought a new set of Wossners from Rob at TSR Performance who was a great help during the crisis. We were lucky enough to get hold of another set, given Wossner no longer stocked these original units. The newer series required a larger wrist pin diameter and therefore faced the threat of having to purchase a new set of con rods to match.

The new pistons arrived the following day and we were now back on track:


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Lee took away the new units, along with the head and block. He came back only a week later with a top result! We could immediately see the difference from the quality of Lee’s work.

All the pockets were machined beautifully as promised, without any punch marks or indents on the piston face! Lee advised us that the pockets on the previous units were not entirely square and questioned the methods that had been used when marking them up.

In Lee’s case, he’d done a fantastic job, by which the pistons were professionally engineered using a computerised CNC process, along with performing all the correct measurements and angles required for locating the correct centre points of the valves.


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So finally we had a result! We were now able to fit the pistons, we flipped up the bonnet and carried back on with the rest of the build.


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This was a big break through with our progress for the build, the year was soon approaching to an end, the clocks were ticking and we were itching to get stuck in again. There were various other jobs going on in the background during this difficult period, but given the pistons were an integral part of the engine, there was little we could do to carry on with the build until we had a working set again.

Fitting high lift cams had introduced a number of challenges, something that would deter most people away, but we were absolutely determined to rise to the challenge and in the end it all paid off.

All was now good to carry on, headaches over, the fun part had commenced… We got the rest of toys out the box and carried on with the rest of the build :)

The new Garrett GTX3076R Turbo…


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Continue to part 4...
 

Gagwithgaffer

Active Member
May 28, 2013
78
0
North Yorkshire
REVO Stage 4... The BIG BUILD! cont...

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The picture below shows the GTX3076R and former GT3071R unit compared side by side, noticeably a big difference! The GTX has a much bigger compressor wheel with an increased number of fan blades, which allows for much better air flow throughput.

Although not listed as supported hardware on REVO’s website, the GTX3076R is a mere one step up from the recommended GT3071R unit.

We would not advise you steer away from the REVO supported hardware list by any means. Athough we did this ourselves, this is a one off project and we also take our own risks with the results! The reason they don’t list this turbo is mainly down to the drivability of the car, and the many hours of time spent matching their software configuration correctly to the appropriate hardware. One does have to remember that when going for bigger turbos, there are some sacrifices to be had i.e. The bigger the unit, the longer it takes to spool up and causes more lag at the lower end.

Our initial road tests have shown that the GTX3076R turbo doesn’t fire up until around 4k revs and upwards, some may not like these characteristics though, the biggest gains are had much higher up the rev range. For Stage 4 software, this is less of an issue considering the map removes the rev limiter, so these gains can still be utilized. We wouldn’t recommend it for stage 3 though, as you will never see the benefits unless you red line the car every time (which without an uprated valve train would be a very bad idea!)

Our lower end drivability will be affected, but we can live with that as a compromise for some insane power! [B)]

The GT3071R is known to top out around the 500bhp mark, where as the GTX3076R is rated up to 640BHP for 2.5lt lumps (depending on who you talk to!) The 3071R is still a cracking turbo though, the bottom end is still responsive with very little lag, and for the 500 miles we had it installed in Kung Fu, we had a lot of fun!

Some people do install even bigger turbos on the 2.0TFSi, this including the extra fueling required such as additional injectors, and this is where you get the real power! But when you start reaching beyond the +650bhp mark, one has to consider the integrity of all the other components. Engine modifications are fine, so long as you have enough wonga to support it! But what about all the other vital systems such as the transmission and the handling?

VAG Group don’t manufacture uprated Haldex systems in the same note that we can readily buy engine components off the shelf, one has to remember the fuller picture with such projects, otherwise you end up with a car which is great for the rollers but nothing much else!

We’d prefer to watch someone else kill their motor than break our own, we’d put far too much time and investment into Kung Fu to go down the “Option 1″ route and trash it after only a few hundred miles…


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New Garrett Turbo installed in position, we only just managed to squeeze it in!


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Unboxing the Cams:


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The picture below shows the old and new cams side by side (Cat Cams on the left)

When compared together, the two units look very similar. The fundamental difference is in the width, the Cat Cams unit is slightly taller at the top but a slightly wider profile down the side. Some Cams achieve their increase in performance from having a taller profile alone, they push the valves further into the cylinder which allows for higher flow throughput of the air and fuel. This obviously increases the performance, but having a wider profile should give us more torque as well, by allowing more fuel to enter the cylinder for longer periods during combustion i.e. altering the timing characteristics of the engine.


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In order to attain the best possible performance from the cams, we also bought the Cat Cams tensioner pulley. This allows for further adjustment of the cams position, in relation to the timing of the engine.


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The inlet manifold for us, is by far the most attractive toy for the project. You can see why from the pictures below i.e. the mouth watering quality of its construction!

The inlet manifold is often a piece of hardware that is overlooked when tuning an engine. They are somewhat expensive for what they are and the likely power gains to be had. A good unit will typically add around 15 to 20bhp to your engine, but these gains are also somewhat relative to the rest of the components installed.

As you’re well aware, fitting a performance exhaust system is crucial for releasing the back pressure from an engine, so increasing the flow input will make a real difference as well. Given the specification of our build, we felt it was important to give the best possible chance for the system to breath, especially as we now have installed a new head with oversized valves, which will make good use of the extra fuel being pumped into the engine.


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The unit is really well designed with some lovely curvatures inside, much less restrictive for throughout than the VAG OEM unit:


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The old and new inlets shown side by side shown below. The OEM unit is made of plastic, with sharp corners and curvatures throughout, performance was not the top priority in its design. The OEM unit is quite restrictive inside and has a lesser impact on its performance. Another component that greatly restricts the flow throughput is the flap delete mechanism. At Stage 3+ airflow levels, removing this can show a big decrease in turbocharger lag, more than a 10 ft-lbs of torque gain and more than a 10 horsepower gain can be had.


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Some weeks had passed and the main re-build was almost complete! and what a result…

Some real eye candy below for your viewing pleasures!


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Some final tweaks and finishing touches were made, Ben replaced the oil filter for a new unit. Once the engine is bedded in then we will replace it again to ensure we remove any nasties that may have found their way into the engine! (especially important when carrying out a full rebuild)


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We used a special grade oil from Millers, which is used for the running in of engines for up to 4 hours under heavy loads, or up to 500 miles for a gentle stroll. The Millers oil has a formulation of high quality solvent refined mineral oils fortified with special low volatility components and appropriate additive treatment.

  • Maximises power output by optimising bedding in process.
  • Provides full protection of highly stressed components whilst allowing optimum bedding in process for piston rings and bore.
  • Additive technology enables full load runs for short bursts.
  • The viscometrics selected ensure that even though the additive system performance is strong the pistons can achieve satisfactory boundary lubrication for bedding purposes.

Obviously carrying out such a build requires that we carefully run the engine in again as new, especially as we replaced the pistons, so we have to give the engine enough time for the components to settle in safely.


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Job done! the BIG rebuild almost complete…bonnet down and time for the first start up! :)


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Some final adjustments were made before hitting the road for the preliminary tests, Ben was setting up the Turbosmart E Boost2 controller back to its default settings, in order that we wouldn’t cake the engine with too much boost on the first few runs!


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Check out the video of our first run here:


Continue to part 5...
 

Gagwithgaffer

Active Member
May 28, 2013
78
0
North Yorkshire
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Road Test Time!



So we hit the road, after several months of hard work we could finally experience the fruits of our labour!

We pulled away from the garage and set off down the road, letting Kung Fu’s valves open up once again, with a gentle roar and gurgle coming from his hefty lump. We passed young Lee (one of Andy’s resident gurus) on his way to the sandwich shop who was on route to get the snacks for the boys!

Lee soon turned his head around, knowing that familiar sound could only come from one and only machine! his face lit up with delight, giving him a cheeky little wave and grin as we passed him by!

We made our way to a secret location, just out of the town where we could open up the valves once again (private road Mr Plod!)

Our final destination soon came into sight and then something happened…. oh no! ****!!!! Kung Fu yelped, he jerked, he ground to a halt…. Mayday mayday he cried!

We were trundling along around 25mph through the flow of the Humber traffic and then suddenly we heard an unpleasant rattling and grinding sound coming from underneath the car, we soon limped over to the side of the road, baffled by our discovery.

Poor Ben looked like the World was going to end!

We put the car into neutral, gently revving the engine and everything seemed ok, mmm… a little confused with our findings so we changed to first gear, gently eased the gas and then all of a sudden, this ugly rattling sound came back!



We had an issue with the transmission… We reached for all possibilities at the far depths of our minds and then suddenly, Ben’s finger snapped open, pointing into thin air as a light bulb shined above his head “Front transfer box” eh? “it’s that ***ing box!!!!” aghhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

So the story unfolds, around 8 months ago I was driving away from my home town, tip toeing along in the morning rush hour traffic on route to the boys in Hull. I suddenly heard a grinding and rattling noise coming from underneath the car. I pulled over to a side road, up onto the curb so I could have a look underneath. At the time I immediately knew there was something wrong with the AWD system, I could hear this ugly sound coming from somewhere near the gearbox. On first inspection I couldn’t see anything wrong but further tests concluded there was an issue. I had to call the Green Flag breakdown service and got towed back to Autotechnica’s HQ.

I remember the concerned look on everyone’s faces as the truck pulled up outside the garage, I think we were all a bit puzzled with the situation.

We got Kung Fu straight up onto the ramps and couldn’t find anything wrong, the propshaft was intact, the gearbox looked ok, nothing looked out of place. We lowered the car back on it’s feet and started it up, gently driving along in first gear along the yard out the back, but the problem had disappeared!!!

eh! What was going on????

We couldn’t find anything wrong, this was very strange and I started to question my own sanity! The breakdown driver was probably now wandering why he’d towed me all the way to the garage, I started feeling rather embarrassed thinking I’d over reacted, or somehow imagined a crisis which didn’t exist!

Surprisingly we never noticed any further issues until NOW! We’d been out on various missions since then and had never noticed any problems.

So this time round we knew there was a full investigation to be done. Poor Kung Fu was now back off the road again in tears, we removed the front transfer box along with the gearbox:

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We stripped down the front transfer box, removing the propshaft spindle and gearing from inside, we soon found the culprit:


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The unit was obliterated with tiny fragments of metal inside that had sheared off the gearing:


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This box was doomed! Rats!

We simply couldn’t understand why this unit had failed, none of the lads had ever seen such a failure with the Haldex system before.

In reality we had driven less than a thousand miles since we did the AWD conversion, the front transfer box came from a Golf R32 donor car, which had only done 29k miles itself. The damage caused from the initial crash had only affected the top side of Golf, if you ever saw our original photos from this R32 at the breakers, you will remember seeing the roof was caved in but the rest of the car was in perfect condition. We simply put this down to bad luck and a one off situation. We hadn’t driven Cupra hard at all since the recent works, albeit we were gently running in the engine following the re-build, so we knew the failure was not from our own doing.


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It was now three days before XMAS and our festive spirits was somewhat suppressed,

But we had got this far to completion and we were not going to let this little problem get the better of us!

We were very lucky in finding another spare from a breakers in the Midlands via EBAY (our trusted friend in internet technology!) So we ordered the replacement unit and awaited its arrival.

Meanwhile the project came to a rest, the boys had a well deserved break and was time to relax for a few days, we put up the XMAS Tree and lit up the workshop with some festive delight!


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The chaps decided to have their annual tidy up and a complete overhaul of the workshop. A decision was made to move house and swap bays.

A change of scenery is always good for the soul!


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But some bickering soon erupted!

now now boys!


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Poor Dave felt a bit singled out, so we told him to cheer him up and sing us a song… wait no don’t, please… STOP! ahhhhhh! :cry:


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He continued to fill the workshop with white noise for the rest of the day until everyone went home!

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So we made our merry way along the Humberside tarmac, gripping our teeth in some hope for success, and finally…


The boys were back in town… YES Yes Yes!


Kung Fu was alive and kicking, and running very very nicely!

It was absolutely brilliant to hear him go again. We made some adjustments to the E Boost2 controller in order that the solenoid for the wastegate would step in around 5k revs and cut off the boost. This was important to do whilst engine was running in so that we didn’t push things too hard.

You could hear the Garrett Turbo making every attempt to come alive, but for now we were party poopers and didn’t allow Kung Fu to get too excited!

We noticed some fundamental differences since carrying out the Stage 4 build, the engine now pulls with away so much more torque. We reckon the new inlet manifold and oversized valves have made a real difference, the whole experience is quite dramatic. We did a number of road tests during the last month and despite our deliberate suppression of the engine’s capability, the car ran really well.

We couldn’t resist in slamming the throttle down a couple of times though, along with a few giggles and some boyish cheeky grins on or faces!

The engine now gives a much deeper tone since the recent modifications, not too loud that we wake up the whole neighbourhood, but the Cupra sounds soooo much better than before! With a gentle warble when idle, and then comes alive once we climb up through the revs, enough to please the eyes and ears of every car fanatic.

During the last few weeks, we’ve been busy getting the car setup ready for some real action. We’re now in the final stages of the mechanical calibration, making sure everything is running nicely and ready for REVO Kev and his team to have a play.

Our next stage of works will be to take the Cupra down to REVO’s HQ where Kev and his team will load the Stage 4 software and get the engine setup for some jaw dropping performance! Our Cupra is best left in the hands of these experts, whilst the setup could be completed back at base, we wanted to leave matters directly in the hands of the REVO Team, in order that we get the very best possible results from the car.

The REVO boys will put the car through its paces, using their specialist hub dyno system. They will then carry out the necessary road tests to ensure our new power beast is reaching its optimum performance and drivability.

We also have plans to start working on the aesthetics fairly soon, with all that power under the hood it would be a shame not to give Kung Fu some new road appeal. We’ll be tarting him up with some new graphics and décor, ready for the big show season ahead. Works will likely be carried out by RTK Graphics (REVO’s resident vinyl specialists down under) and we’ll come out with a fresh new face ready, to hit the road for our up and coming events.

We have various plans on the board for this summer, we aim to get to some media events organised, along with a magazine spread and some videos to show the results from all our hard work. Keep a look out for our next phase of the works… The BIG TUNE!

So as the story concludes, we’ve made some great progress with the build and can now see the light at the end of the tunnel. Many months have passed and an awful lot of work has gone into the car. Taking on such a project has not been an easy task as we had experienced some real challenges along the way. Andy and his team have given their upmost dedication towards the project and pushed through every hurdle that stopped in our path.



Credits


Big thanks to Lee X for his fine works done with the pistons and his support, through what was a challenging and frustrating period.

Thanks to Rob from TSR Performance for his help with tracking down the last pair of Wossners available, which were critical to completing the re-build.

Credits due to REVO and Milltek for their continued interest and support with the project.

And finally the boys at Autotechnica, Andy, Ben and his team.

Words simply cannot describe how amazing the boys at Autotechnica have been, they are the most dedicated and talented team of professionals I have ever worked with, their commitment towards the project has been 110% at every second throughout, along with highest quality of works I’ve ever seen! :)

Thank you so much guys for everything you’ve done to date, you should be really proud of your achievements and sure the rest of World will join me in giving you a big round of applause for all your hard efforts.

For all enquiries for the project, please contact Autotechnica Hull on +44 (0) 1482 353369

Until the next update, you can follow our progress on our Facebook Page, we’ll let you know our plans for the up and coming show season and we very much look forward to seeing you all there.


Best Regards

The Quattro Cupra R MK2 Team!
 

Gagwithgaffer

Active Member
May 28, 2013
78
0
North Yorkshire
Progress Update

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Hi Everyone, to give you an update on our progress. We'll soon be taking our Cupra down to Revo’s HQ for the BIG Tune! [B)]

Today we fed Kung Fu some racing oil for breakfast before making our way out to the track for some final tests... We pulled over to one side, popped in the fuse for the meth, flicked the switch and set off on our way.

Driving along in 2nd gear we slammed down the throttle, whizzing our way up to 5.5K revs and then suddenly... the turbo kicked in!


The car jolted forwards as our heads snapped straight back into the seat, Kung Fu screamed and growled with anger as we thrashed or way to the end of the red line... Holy Cow!!!!

Our recent build has made a massive difference on performance, with a long list of engine goodies installed under the hood, we've now hit well into super car territory, what a result!

Can't wait to see what happens when REVO get their hands on this beast!

Our Cupra was one of the last ones off the production line back in late 2012, with only 8K miles on the clock, we're proud to introduce the World's youngest AWD MK2.

The boys at Autotechnica have done an amazing job, not one scratch or scuff exists inside or out, the quality of workmanship is something else, looks as good as the day when it came out the SEAT dealership. To say we’ve had the car stripped down to every last piece and re-built it on two occasions, this really is a feat of engineering!

If you wanna turn your ride into an absolute monster, best give Andy and his team a call on 01482 353369… Look forward to bringing you our next update, stay tuned ;)

For all updates, please see our facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/QuattroCupra


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Jan 12, 2020
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Hi. Where did you find those brackets for the propshaft/elbow joint? I’m about to make my cupra in to a 4x4 beast, but i can’t find those brackets anywhere....
Can you help me out?
 

Jimbobcook

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Nov 24, 2012
5,895
2,311
What a thread! Be great to see this car at one of our forum meets if we have one close by?
 

Legojon

I only wanted a remap
Staff member
Moderator
Jul 7, 2015
5,267
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What a thread! Be great to see this car at one of our forum meets if we have one close by?

Doesn't look like he's been online for a while. I can't afford to meet a 4WD MK2 owner. Look what happened after I saw Jairm's car!
 
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