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It is in truth the wrong approach to think in terms of the `cost of the turbo` in isolation - the cost of the turbo is only a small part of the total cost required for the essential task of engineering the whole car to a level appropriate to enable you to enjoy the performance in confidence and safety.
The conversion is complex and not of the `plug and play` variety - each car is very much a `bespoke` effort, and that`s why the vast majority of us require the input of an established and experienced tuner to complete the job - unless you have a great deal of technical knowlege and resource you are very much on your own with regards to a DIY effort should you encounter problems
- your local Seat dealer will run a mile! 
Ians use will be on track as well as road.
EGT's pre-turbine are the ones to take notice of.
Housings dont like those temps. Warp.
Yours been on track yet?
My car was never intended for track use Bill - always saw it only as a road car, and I can only talk of my experiences with regards to `spirited` road use
As i said i`ve done nearly 34k IHI miles so far with the original mani/housing/ downpipe without any cracks/warps etc to date
I am really happy with the car - most of my experiences with modded cars over the years have been less than uplifting - something always goes wrong.
This LCR has been the best yet by miles - the prospect of getting 34k road miles out of a `cooking` engine developing 200+bhp/litre, and delivering junior -supercar performance, whilst at the same time offering amazing tractability, nearly 30mpg and low running costs into the bargin, for me, beggars belief - i feel very lucky
This whole modding business is a very personal quest -each of us has our own priorities and tailors his project for success accordingly
I know for your posts that you didn`t feel the IHI was for you and I can well understand you wanting to change having had such bad luck - your new project sounds very exciting and I look forward to seeing some great results in due course.
Perhaps Ian , being advised by you would be better to steer away from the IHI, and use something you feel more appropriate to his needs
My car was never intended for track use Bill - always saw it only as a road car, and I can only talk of my experiences with regards to `spirited` road use
As i said i`ve done nearly 34k IHI miles so far with the original mani/housing/ downpipe without any cracks/warps etc to date
I am really happy with the car - most of my experiences with modded cars over the years have been less than uplifting - something always goes wrong.
This LCR has been the best yet by miles - the prospect of getting 34k road miles out of a `cooking` engine developing 200+bhp/litre, and delivering junior -supercar performance, whilst at the same time offering amazing tractability, nearly 30mpg and low running costs into the bargin, for me, beggars belief - i feel very lucky
This whole modding business is a very personal quest -each of us has our own priorities and tailors his project for success accordingly
I know for your posts that you didn`t feel the IHI was for you and I can well understand you wanting to change having had such bad luck - your new project sounds very exciting and I look forward to seeing some great results in due course.
Perhaps Ian , being advised by you would be better to steer away from the IHI, and use something you feel more appropriate to his needs
"Luck" songman had nothing to do with it. Cracked manifold(s), warped exhaust housings, but luckily for me never a bearing failure like several others have suffered.
Pushing the IHI's to pump out the numbers 'customers' want to see is where the VF34 IHI starts to become less reliable. It was'nt for me some 4+ years down the line no, but my goals also moved significantly, and experience gained along the way has been immence. (albeit expensive)
The example you give for road use is just that, "road use", but I know Ians looking for track use as well as daily drive. Been there myself, and when it was turned up in "my" quest for more power (for which many others have since followed based on it "worked for me") there were failures of housings, warping etc, and same of the manifold, cracked and warped. Its not like mine is an isolated case with these type failures. the thing in common being we're all running them 1.6bar or higher to get as much as we can out of em.
Keep it sensible and boost levels sane, and the VF34 for me was superb, very reliable, but track use is nothing like road use. EGT's are the important thing to keep control of for housings. beyond 900'C you are in the lap of the gods.
I've moved on from VF34 yes, and that was prompted by guess what, an exhausing failure/warp, which blew the gasket out of the PE. not a big warp thankfullyand the housing is machinable to make it flat again as is the manifold. The pain to replace this however, given the frequency it occurs in race mode was not something I was prepared to tollerate. 390bhp was not enough for me either, so it was think hard, dig deep time, and I retired my Jabba kit and engineered my own setup to my new goals. at considerable cost, but I was not prepared to run a compromised setup just because I had "invested" money in it... (shed loads of ££)
Now I am not knocking the VF34 IHI, as it can deliver the goods to a 300-320bhp level reliably. Track use will push them very much harder than on the road, so the modest boost I would advocate, should keep them reliable, with a very keen eye on EGT's and thinking of additional things like water injection. (not everyone does this, and some that do then try to map to make full use of the extra potential..... where I use it as a safety device to combat spiraling EGT's when 'on it' round track).
VF34 IHI IMHO is a better unit for drivability than the GT28's I have come across, and MikeT has done a trremendous job of pioneering it into the ipso facto "1.8T IHI" upgrade so many people talk about.
I would be wary of post turbine temps in high 800's low 900's, as I saw these myself whilst still warping an exhaust housing. When you compare P20 housings vs other makes you realise how small it is so heat build in there is'nt surprising, as the compressor is oh so willing to deliver flow thru it.
As for what I would advise for Ian, I know he's got a budget in mind and what I would suggest for "track" use would blow that out of the water. I think the VF34 Ians got his eye on, will deliver the goods, when mapped within its ability. His will be a stock motor otherwise, aside from FMIC, so power will be pegged accordingly.
Anyone who's running their IHI's know how damned fast they actually are. Transform the 1.8T's. We are all looking for something extra these days, including JS with their prospective new range of turbos. Should be good when available. (and wont likely be IHI based)
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Good information for myself particularly. As I like to track my car now it's certainly reliable anU pretty quick considering it's spec....currently approx 230 hp and 265lbs at Awesome.
The main reasons it's half respectable (1.22 around Coombe) is mainly due to set up diff and Intermidiate Tyres currently running Dunlop D01J's.
Anything quicker would necessitate serious weight loss or big wallop.
Weight loss would mean making the car into a 'proper track orientated car'.
Taking the view that 300hp and a bit would be a nice upgrade keeping it pegged back should keep temps down. I will also invest in Water injection to keep those essential intake temps down.
I would also like to measure EGT's in all of the essential locations for monotoring and will build this into the safety / longevity measures.
What sort of cost will be Water injection kits be?
Luckily I have a good Neuspeed FMIC. I also run a standard airbox and panel filter and Forge Rec Valve.One thing I will also invest will be a baffled sump and catch tank.
Think I will keep my K03's and stock manifold as a spare just in case.
The main reasons it's half respectable (1.22 around Coombe) is mainly due to set up diff and Intermidiate Tyres currently running Dunlop D01J's.
Anything quicker would necessitate serious weight loss or big wallop.
Weight loss would mean making the car into a 'proper track orientated car'.
Taking the view that 300hp and a bit would be a nice upgrade keeping it pegged back should keep temps down. I will also invest in Water injection to keep those essential intake temps down.
I would also like to measure EGT's in all of the essential locations for monotoring and will build this into the safety / longevity measures.
What sort of cost will be Water injection kits be?
Luckily I have a good Neuspeed FMIC. I also run a standard airbox and panel filter and Forge Rec Valve.One thing I will also invest will be a baffled sump and catch tank.
Think I will keep my K03's and stock manifold as a spare just in case.
I remember doing 1m20s laps on eagle f1's when I had Golfy... some 390bhp ish then. 1m22s laps on your power is excellent
Well worth the money then?
How much do u think it will reduce temps by?
EGT's measured pre turbine??? How??...will be must for logevity
Rods and valves should be safe on my spec
No mention on Matts failues on SWdubs?
Ian
EGT's measured by installing a thermocouple into the exhaust stream.
pre-turbine is more accurate in respect to keeping an eye on things, but thats not always so easy. Mines installed directly on post turbine outlet flow, so adjusted temps in my mind to compensate for it being slightly colder.
880-900'C on mine is my personal max, with IHI housing being less IMHO for peace of mind on track day mode
Songman runs Aquamist full monty I believe. He built himself a full on motor. Not worth short cutting things.
Mani is junk apparently.
loadsa cracks
He has to be unluckiest man around.
Is it his driving or are the manifolds junk?
I have no doubts whatsoever about the reliability of the IHI for normal road use - I have no regrets at all and I would do exactly the same again
I felt much like youself when I was considering the prospect of getting work done on my car - all I ever read was stories of disasters - so i can well understand you concerns
I have had problems but I put them down to my own lack of experience and my own foolish forgetfulness regarding the maxim - `if it ain`t broke don`t try to fix it`
Prior to GTI Inters and purely,and for cosmetic reasons alone, I decided to change the DV - the car had been going so well for 17k miles I guess i was getting bored and looking for something to do!
The valve I was supplied with was faulty - that is the kindest description I can offer in the public domain - and in a period of 10 days from fitting, it caused the turbo bearings to fail[ as a consequence of the valve`s inability to do any `diverting`] and I was landed with a £1000 bill for a new unit - I was not a happy bunny![[:@]](/forums/styles/seatcupra/oldforumsmileys/furious.gif "Furious [:@]")
The big caveat here is to very careful with what you fit - all that glitters is not gold or silver or polished alloy or what have you! - because it looks nice doesn`t mean it works any better - Top tuners like APR even retain the standard Bosch DV and VAG airbox in their BT applications
I am well over that now having done over 17k with the new unit without any probs
I am still using the original turbo exhaust housing, manifold and downpipe at 34k IHI miles without any problems - the highest EGT i`ve see is 870 deg downstream of the turbo - and that was after a good thrashing, and i`m talking here about really ffaasstt - if the car is correctly engineered and set up by a competent professional, then in road use, you`re more likely to end up in jail before you do an exhaust housing.
Hope this helps - I am hoping to do a more comprehensive overview of my years IHI motoring with outline costs etc when I have more time to post over the holiday period
I'm getting concerned over these temps now realising that you have Aquamist too!!
Is this an IHI issue that causes these high temps or is it a inferior manifold. Seems APR have a well manifold I assume it's better constructed.
I just don't want to kill my car on track just for the sake of 70hp.
Its mapped on 2 boost levels and was running the low setting round combe.
Mani is'nt new in the scheme of things, but has had its day.
Not his driving.... you would'nt be driving it any slower on track
I will qualify mine... I have Aquamist but not allowed to run it in Combe's race series so effectively this year I have not run with it on. I ran it last year round the ring to good effect however, using 10% water/meth mix
Temps are a function of the boost and ultimate flow (or not) P18/P20 housings aint that big and when their compressors pump thru some volume its got to go somewhere. JS mani flows well enough for VF34's & some smaller hybrids based thereof.
I think APR's LHD manifold is cast from a higher grade (inconel ? or high nickle content... cant recall)
you know what the cars go thru on track Ian.
Well worth the money a baffled sump got one fitted not so long ago and the car does seem more poweful/responsive. I put this down to the crank no having to cut through the oil.
Deffo invest in aquamist i recently purchased the 2d setup which i have still to install. Only heard good things of them. I plan to run all 3 jets supplied .5 to engine .6 and .7 ontop of the fmic which should cool it down even more.
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baffled sump would have no effect on oil level and crank... there's a windage tray of sorts in there as std to stop crank dipping into the sump.
Its not a performance mod, but a keep the oil in the bottom of the engine mod, and not breather system. more for track use, high braking high cornering mode where the oil can go vertical in the block under hard braking for example and gob a lung full of oil into the oil breather box sat on the lower front of the block.
its a good add_on to have tho. £230-£280 range to get one.
Must be my imagination
Yeah thats why i added it for high g cornering, braking. Do you have a surge tank for your fuel? Cause im thinking of one of these.
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