Satellite Navigation loss of position problem

IanH72

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Jan 20, 2019
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Has anyone had any issues with the built in navigation system losing the cars position and which direction it is traveling? I was 125 miles from home yesterday in Norfolk so needed to use navigation to get home. My default navigation is Google maps so before I got in my 2022 Arona FR Sport I set the route but as soon as it connected to the car it then showed my location in a different area and then showed the car moving in the wrong direction when I started driving. I disconnected my phone to use the built in satellite navigation system but found it was the built in system that was the problem my phone then showed the correct position again so I connected it back to the car and it showed the same position that the built in system showed. I disconnected my phone again turned the car off and on did a hard reboot of the infotainment system but it still hadn’t a clue where I was so had to use Google maps on my phone without connecting it to the car. This has happened a few times since collecting the car less than 3 weeks ago so pulled into a lay-by and took a picture of my iPad that had Google maps running above the infotainment system as it showed the correct position. It seems to be very random when it happens so wanted proof to show the dealer so they don’t keep the car for a day to say nothing is wrong.
 

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Tell

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Yes it's fairly common !. It's a weird one that it gets your Google Maps one as well... which is common and iOS. The sop that dealers use "use your phone" 😂.... doesn't work. That was the dealers get out of jail card on the built in systems.

I've answered a few posts over the last 18 months on this one. I've seen it in the Middle East where Syria is jamming satnav so if you are close to the border you loose navigation and have to turn back then it reconnects. But not in a non potential war zone.

My understanding is your mobile phone is taking the satnav signal off the cars satnav aeriel so must be doing, that's obvious. There is a box that leaps the signal from the cars aerial into the phone and that's may be messing the signal up. The cars built in system also gets corrupted as well from what I've been told so built in and phone based ones all stop working correctly.

There are threads about if that makes you feel comfortable:


There is some hocus pocus stuff in there about sat nav using the mobile phone towers it doesn't. But acknowledgement it affects the Troc, certainly its been reported across the Vag group with mib3.

May be this one from the board... there are others:


Or this one:


Reckon you probably have a built in sat nav jammer in the car thanks to VAG 😉. When you go off track that's when the locked satellites drop down in number below 10, 3 or so (10 is good). There is a magic number for 3D accuracy, about 4. Jammers screw up the number of locked satellites so you loose the accuracy or no lock. Sometime with mobile phones you need to reboot, my HTC early one I use for hiking does this at times. The algorithm stops working in the chip set. The location goes all over the place.

Video tells you about sat nav by that well known presenter.


Additional reading:


Armed with this information you can do some tests yourself. There are apps about. Since you have the issue on the phone in the car you can do your own tests using your smartphone. The Android app GPS Test shows some assorted information:

Screenshot_20220429-231252.png


Top right show's its locked onto 15, can see 31 (indoors). Now I bet if you plugged this into your car the locked on satellites would fall when you have the problem.

These apps also provide the assessed accuracy on the locked satellites, +/- 9 metres on this example and the constellation it's using.:

Screenshot_20220429-232306.png


Apple store apps for similar:


I'd experiment, standing outside the vehicle with the unit switched off (may be the 20 minute power down of the car). In the car, not plugged in. Then again switched on, not plugged in, plugged in etc. To see how the lock and accuracy changes. You can also get these GPS Test apps to put you on the map so with any luck it will show you not where you are 😨.

The cars system could be messing up your A-GNSS data


Assisted GNSS data speeds up locking on but corrupted data leads to problems:


This is when I have to reboot my HTC if it fails to lock on as the link talks about, plus I download the helper data that is good for 6 days or so. Corrupted over the air helper data would give you a problem. This should all be automatic but does indicate that failures in the software do corrupt your GPS.

I'd run a few tests with GPS Test software on your smartphone to isolate which component part of the connection is doing it as I outlined above then tackle your dealer about it. Some people say it's WiFi connection to the phone rather than USB wired. Outside the car plus levels of testing when you have the issue using one of the GPS test apps will get down to the bottom of how it manifests itself, not the solution mind you. You can also slap in a reboot of the mib3, long hold towards the end of your investigations. Failing that check after 20 minutes when most of the cars electronics go to sleep. That's going to tell you what the interim fix is. Suspect its deliverying up twisted GPS data to your smartphone or it could be interference or a connection left off to the smartphone connection box that jumps the signal into your smartphone.

Wonder whether @East Yorkshire Retrofits come access this issue and solutions. Yours is the very latest mib3 Arona firmware as I recall.

Like the SOS click these units also have the ability to put you in a differeng place to where you are. Safety in numbers and all that. Report it to the dealer.
 
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IanH72

Active Member
Jan 20, 2019
287
119
Has anyone had any issues with the built in navigation system losing the cars position and which direction it is traveling? I was 125 miles from home yesterday in Norfolk so needed to use navigation to get home. My default navigation is Google maps so before I got in my 2022 Arona FR Sport I set the route but as soon as it connected to the car it then showed my location in a different area and then showed the car moving in the wrong direction when I started driving. I disconnected my phone to use the built in satellite navigation system but found it was the built in system that was the problem my phone then showed the correct position again so I connected it back to the car and it showed the same position that the built in system showed. I disconnected my phone again turned the car off and on did a hard reboot of the infotainment system but it still hadn’t a clue where I was so had to use Google maps on my phone without connecting it to the car. This has happened a few times since collecting the car less than 3 weeks ago so pulled into a lay-by and took a picture of my iPad that had Google maps running above the infotainment system as it showed the correct position. It seems to be very random when it happens so wanted proof to show the dealer so they don’t keep the car for a day to say nothing is wrong.
Well it’s still not fixed after spending 6 hours at the dealers yesterday, they gave the car back saying they had updated the software and couldn’t get it to go wrong but told me to bring it back if it loses position again. Within a few hundred meters it went wrong again so I went straight back and then took the master tech for a drive to show him. He asked me to email the picture that I posted on here so he could send a report to Seat UK as he hadn’t come across this issue before and said that he has asked if he can replace the GPS antenna that is under the drivers seat. He said he will get back to me when he has an answer.
 

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Well it’s still not fixed after spending 6 hours at the dealers yesterday, they gave the car back saying they had updated the software and couldn’t get it to go wrong but told me to bring it back if it loses position again. Within a few hundred meters it went wrong again so I went straight back and then took the master tech for a drive to show him. He asked me to email the picture that I posted on here so he could send a report to Seat UK as he hadn’t come across this issue before and said that he has asked if he can replace the GPS antenna that is under the drivers seat. He said he will get back to me when he has an answer.
Odd place to put the GPS antenna. If no heated windscreen they go under the dash hidden or if one of the wired heated windscreen they use the roof mounted one... don't reckon it's under the seat but something else might be. It's reported across boards this issue with mib3 that positioning with the built in system and the phone both go out together which feels weird.

Here's an example thread:


No real solution thou takes you to the present. Wired v wireless. Apple it seems to finish saying is the one with the fault. Suppose you have to find a non Apple phone with the issue as well. The real test is having the built in sat nav working correctly with the phone in the house out of the way. Then introduce the phone into the mix. Some people say that some phones use the GSM antenna triangulation if they can't lock on to GNSS signal. That might explain the large errors. Needs a bit of fault finding by the user community else it will bounce around so as to speak.

Edit... re-reading that link, bit early the first time I read it, seems to be an Apple CarPlay issue, Android was reported to work fine. Thus I suspect through the vagaries of Apple if it judges it can't get a GNSS signal (satellite) (bug) it ops for triangulation of the mobile towers as hinted so then you loose your accuracy.
 
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IanH72

Active Member
Jan 20, 2019
287
119
The garage has just called to say Seat want the online control unit (OCU) so have booked me in to have it replaced on Thursday 16th June so 🤞it fixes the problem.
 
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IanH72

Active Member
Jan 20, 2019
287
119
I will do Tell. I got on really well with the master technician and emailed details of how to get the sports dial as he wants to do it to his car. He also told me he has a Formentor on order as he knows I have one so I know he will see this through until it is fixed.
 
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IanH72

Active Member
Jan 20, 2019
287
119
My Arona went back to the dealership on Thursday to have the OCU (Online Control Unit) replaced and I’m glad to report that the car/satellite navigation has worked faultlessly since.
 
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