Tearing my hair out over my LCR 225

[Mastodon2]

Hey guys, as some of you may remember I've been having some troubles with my LCR 225 03 reg. It has been cutting out at high revs in low gears, usually at about 5300rpm-ish. Some lights on on the dash and the engine goes into limp mode. Restarting the car seems to reset it and works normally again, but I don't dare push it in case it cuts again.

I took my car to a well known independent VAG specialist garage in Newcastle, who read the fault codes and it appeared to say the "Torque sensor" or something had caused the fault code. They had only seen this once before and could not remember what had caused it on the other car.

After some further investigation (revving the car hard while stationary) it seemed the turbo system was working normally, airflow into the engine was in the expected range and coolant and oil temps were normal. They did note that the air intake temp was high, and upon looking at the sensor decided that it was probably broken - it did look a bit ratty. As the car had previously gone into limp mode on hot afternoons, it was surmised that the hot afternoon air was overloading the knackered sensor.

Anyway, I had been driving like an old man for a week to prevent tripping the fault again, but last night I decided to give it a bit of leather, thinking that in the cool air at night it would be ok. The car seemed to do ok, pulling hard in 3rd and 4th gear up towards the red line, but it did not trip the fault this time.

I took the car back to the garage this morning to get the sensor fitted, they noted that no new fault codes had been recorded for the week and then I drove off, only to to find the damn fault reoccur immediately as soon as I put my foot down in third gear, once again leaving the car in limp mode as soon as I got to about 62mph. I phoned the garage immediately, who said I would have to leave the car with them so they could have a proper look at it. Unfortunately I cannot leave the car with them again until next Saturday, so that's another week of farting with a car that is still not right.

So, what could this torque sensor valve all about then? The car has a remap though I'm not sure which one, when the boost comes on it comes on very hard - could this be overloading the engine and causing it to go into limp mode to avoid damage? Has anyone ever heard of anything like this happening before? Looking back it does seem a little odd that a torque sensor fault could be related to an air temp sensor, but I'm not a mechanic so I trusted that these guy would know how to fix it.

Would it be a possibility that flashing the ECU with the original SEAT map for the car could prevent this kind of **** happening again? I'd be happy to trade a bit of power for reliability and useability!

 

[Mastodon2]

I might weigh up my options for a remap to cut some power and make the car healthy again. It's fine day to day and I don't drive it hard and fast very often, but I want the option there if I need it - if I wanted a "normal, everyday" car I wouldn't have gotten an LCR!

Whats the average price of a REVO stage one map these days? Having looked on the site for Performance Development Tuning (well known North East tuner) they have an LCR package - for £399! Surely a Revo stage one map could not cost that much...could it?

 

[Mastodon2]

The thing that gets me though is that the car never used to suffer this problem when I first got it. Had it 3 months and it was faultless, then all of a sudden it starts getting the hump when I try to press on in it!

 

[Mastodon2]

The plot thickens...

When I dropped the car off this morning, the mechanic who was to work on it was on the phone trying to get the sensor delivered to the garage. He said it was nearby and that it would be brought over so it could be fitted. I thought nothing more of it, handed over my keys and jumped into my waiting taxi.

I picked it up about 1pm time and it didn't even pass the test of some hard revs in third gear before dying at 60mph.

After taking it for another (slow) drive, I decided to lift the bonnet up and have a look at the shiney new air intake sensor, and what did I find...

the exact same sensor as the car had on when I dropped it off this morning!

Here are some photos I just took about 20 minutes ago;

Here is the engine bay, the MAF is in the top red circle (though it was not suspected to be faulty) and the air intake temperature sensor is in the bottom red circle.

And here it a pic of the sensor where the air intake feeds into the block;

Let's take a closer look at that sensor...

The wires are hanging out (which the mechanic commented on last week), and it's filthy and tatty looking. Actually, it looks as though it's done 85,000 miles - just like the rest of the engine! Pretty damn dirty for a sensor that should only have come out of the box 4 hours ago. Has anyone else ever seen a new part aquire 85,000 miles of road dirt in 4 hours and 20 miles of driving? I certainly have not!

I was assured the new part was fitted and the car was functioning well on a diagnostic before it was handed back to me, and I paid my £70. Now, looking at it, part of, a very large part actually, suspects that the sensor never arrived, was never fitted and then I was billed and sent on my way in the hope that the fault would not reoccur and I would never notice.

Where to go from here?

 

[Jamie225]

looks like you have had a new maf and not ait sensor to me

 

[cupra_r_ick]

sensor looks pretty new to me, the plug doesnt, but who cares about a plug

 

[Mastodon2]

Similarly, the MAF is manky too, I got some photos of that as well;

 

[cupra_r_ick]

as said before, revving the car at idle is going to achieve nothing, it needs to be done on the road under faulting conditions or on a dyno.

 

[Mastodon2]

When they revved the car indoors it was to see if the diagnostic would register any boost leaks, not to try and recreate the fault. The turbo is as strong as ever, it just seems the engine doesn't want to play at the moment!

 

[cupra_r_ick]

yh, but what if the engine is over boosting, and thus putting it into limp mode ?
the car doesnt register boost leaks.... and how would it if the turbo is barely spinning ?

 

[Mastodon2]

A dongle was plugged in under the centre console and a VW tablet gizmo was used that was showing my car working in real time, and while it was revved (even if the turbo was not spinning at anywhere near full power) no unusual bleeding of pressure was detected from the intake system, the only thing that was outside of spec was temperature, and even then it was not out by more than a few degrees.

If the engine was overboosting and triping some kind of torque overload switch, how would I know? I have an Auto Gauges boost gauge, I'm pretty sure my car never goes beyond about 20 psi (1.3 bar or there abouts?) on full boost.

 

[cupra_r_ick]

whenyou say it cuts out, does the engine actually switch off or just lose power ?

 

[Mastodon2]

When the fault occurs there is a shunt from the engine, then the engine still runs but it just goes flat, revs very slowly and won't go above like 2500rpm. All the times it has happened I've just had to pull onto the hard shoulder, turn the engine off and on again and then get moving again as quickly as possible to avoid an accident like being hit by an errant car!

 

[Muttley]

Most of what you can see in your photographs is the wiring connectors that are part of the vehicle loom. Of course they will look the same. The sensors are mostly covered by the connectors. The bits of the temperature sensor we can see look new.

I know of no torque sensor on these engines. Get them to point it out to you. The sensor that would register overboost is the manifold pressure sensor, fitted into the hard pipe coming from the nearside intercooler to the throttle body.

 

[cupra_r_ick]

agree with the muttster. sounds like your going into limp mode made, and a restart is clearing it. you need to get to a proper garage, or get vagcom yourself and do some logs

 

[Gulfstream]

I bet its the TIP thats collapsing on you mate.

 

[cupra_r_ick]

i dont think it is, a restart would have no influence on this, just letting off the throttle would...

 

[Gulfstream]

i dont think it is, a restart would have no influence on this, just letting off the throttle would...

Reduced flow across the MAF as a result of collapsed TIP.. Id think that would throw a code. But then again, Im no engineer..

A restart would clear the code.

 

[Mastodon2]

Yep its definitely triggering limp mode. The engine stays running by the car just coasts down on engine braking, by which point I'm pulling onto the hard shoulder. Throttle response is flat as a witch's tit until its turned off and on again.

I need to get to the bottom of this dodgy sensor, as the actual piece that was disconnected and inspected last week was the black plastic housing and I was given the impression that this was the part to be changed. I have not removed the new part yet to look inside it, but the plastic housing and exposed wires are absolutely the same ones the car went to the garage with this morning, I can see no visible evidence of any work being done.

 

[Gulfstream]

post your codes.

Im still gunning for collapsed TIP.