Cupra 180 K04 kit vs LCR

[marlew]

Hello all - this is my first post.

I have a revo'd Cupra 180 (MY03) which I bought last year. I really like the car but even with the remap its not really that quick.

I've been reading the forums on here for a while now on how to make it go quicker (in fact its become a bit of an obsession) and I've come to the conclusion that I should either sell it and buy an LCR or fit a bigger turbo to it.

I've looked at the costs and the cheapest turbo upgrade option is a K04 which is the same turbo fitted to an LCR.
The fitted kit will cost around 2k but it would probably cost me 3-4k to trade up to an LCR and I would imagine that the performance after the K04 upgrade would be similar to a remapped LCR.

so what should I do ?

And if I go for the k04 upgrade am I really going to see similar performance to a remapped LCR and is there anything else that I need to upgrade such as a bigger intercooler, clutch etc ?

 

[Ruddmeister]

And if I go for the k04 upgrade am I really going to see similar performance to a remapped LCR and is there anything else that I need to upgrade such as a bigger intercooler, clutch etc ?

Yes you would see similar performance in straight line acceleration, however your £2k sounds light to me and don't forget you would also need some changes to braking and suspension to make the most use of the power.

Personally I would also think you will need to do something to the intercooler if you go K04.

Don't forget to add another £500 to your LCR budget for a remap too.

 

[Mitchy]

Read here...

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=116975

Have you got a K04 kit? I know of someone who is selling a complete kit if your interested.

For £2k i would think you should get it setup and mapped easily.

 

[traumapat]

i was in a similar situation. but ended up going with ihi turbo at twice the cost of what you quote.

2k fitted sounds good but check that everything is with it... injectors etc. bigger maf housing ?

i think youd need an fmic too to make the most of the power. bigger brakes would be an asset too

theres a few ko4 hybrids out there that may be better.

for me spending lots to equal power of an lcr wasnt enough but getting 300+ with ihi was.

skint now but quick

 

[Ruddmeister]

For £2k i would think you should get it setup and mapped easily.

Cooling on a single SMIC might not be up to the job though

 

[Mitchy]

Perhaps rudd it may not be, wonder if the twin coolers from the LCR would fit as they come up very cheaply on ebay(Sub £100) However inlet mani orientation is all different so probably not

He may need to uprate his cooler for a FMIC.

 

[RobM]

I think the engine layout is different and it's physically not possible to fit the twin coolers of the LCR onto a Cupra.

You might be able to get all the bits you need to get started fitted and mapped for £2k, but as said already, that's far from the end of it. Cooling is an issue, so a FMIC is going to be needed (£700ish), then you'll need bigger brakes to cope with the extra power and demand put upon them (£600+) then you'll need to make sure your current wheels fit over bigger brakes (many 17" wheels will struggle here, as will some 18's depending on style), your suspension should ideally be changed to help make the most of this power too, as there is no use in having shed loads of power if the car cant use it all properly.

Then don't forget the insurance side of things, as I'm confident a heavily modified LC with everything listed above, is going to be much more expensive to insure than a mildy-modified LCR.

And with anything of this scale and nature, the fitted and working price is never, ever the end of your expenses, as there is always something more to pay out for!

 

[Mitchy]

Not sure if this helps but you can pick up cheap intercoolers from ebay

Golf mk4 FMIC, so should be very similar..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1999-2005-Gol...ryZ72205QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[HarveyGTI]

in my experience 2k for any turbo upgrade job is pretty dam cheap

you have the expense of:

turbo
Downpipe
race cat
S/S exhaust
FMIC
4 bar fuel regulator
induction kit
dump valve
suspension
brembos
remap

that would be a list of the essential stuff if you wanted to match a remapped LCR but that would certainly be pushing you into the 280bhp+ realm very easily, but you are easily looking at over £3000+!!

oh and i have not included the insurance or any labour for fitting any of those parts

i had all of the above done to my ibiza, be it a diff turbo of course.....and it went well over 4k believe me

unless of course you can fit it all yourself then maybe £3000 is a more relaistic target

 

[Big_daddy]

In my personnel opinion, i would jus get nice lcr and get it remapped. Cheaper to insure as it not got any heavy mods!

 

[Mitchy]

True it would be easier but then you have the LCR to play with then and it all starts over again. You need to spend £2500 to get the LCR upto 280bhp spec.

No doubt FMIC/exhaust/induction would follow anyway, but just on the LCR rather than his LC

LCR suspension is rubbish and needs upgrading anyway, but the bonus being LCR comes with the brembos, LC doesn't.

Saying that the LCR Brembo setup isn't as good as ''what its supposed to be'' I've never been totally impressed by them. Im sure cars like the clio 182/CTR would out break an LCR and they dont have the 4 pot brembos!

 

[marlew]

Thank you for your replies, most helpful.

You've all convinced me that 2k is not what it would cost, and that 3k is more realistic (just for the turbo upgrade) So swapping to an LCR is the more sensible option.

However then I'd miss out on all the fun of seeing my cars performance transformed over time/planning the mods etc!. so I am undecided and still tempted to go ahead with the mods anyway.

I take the point about insurance, but I've had a very reasonable quote, which is more than an LCR but not much.

 

[Mitchy]

Did you read this thread...

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=116975

Will cost you way under £2k to put a K04 on it including mapping and fitting especially if you get a 2nd hand K04 setup like the chap in the above thread has done.

Brakes/FMIC/Exhaust/Suspension are all optional and can be added later.

Good luck with it anyway mate

 

[Snoopie]

You'll gain approximately 50-60hp. And for the amount of money you'd have to spend.....It's a crap gain.

A Leon 180hp, vs a Remapped LCR isn't a big difference anyway, you'll notice the LCR pulling away, but for the gains, I'd rather set up the 180 to be more progressive......

Trust me

 

[Mitchy]

LOL, a remapped LCR will destroy a Leon 180bhp car.

50-60bhp?

180bhp-280bhp is a 100bhp difference snoopie

To gain 100bhp for £2000 is a no brainer to me.

You can spend £750 on a FMIC and £1000 on an exhaust and gain 10-15bhp for comparisons

 

[Snoopie]

JKM and Awesome GTI run various days with SCN. None of them hit 280hp...

Edit: May I add, all of these cars were quite nicely tuned. Even Awesome's own car made 260+.
Not one made your figures with 'just' a remap, and even then highly modified.

Provide your evidence...

 

[Snoopie]

Every single one made between 220-260. Not one made much over....
SO.....
When my car was running a realistic 240hp, Against a standard 180hp car, there wasn't a great difference, but enough for me to overtake without struggling. I go by actual experiences Mitchy, Not by what someone tells me down the pub!

 

[Mitchy]

Snoopie, ive been to quite a few rolling roads mate and im clever enough to know awesome have problems with calculating flywheel figures.

Take your car to JBS and get it tested, they'll give you a good ''accurate'' figure.

If you were to believe the results from awesome you would believe 7-8bhp losses were normal.

Go to any other RR and youll have 35-40bhp losses.

Thats for sure

Phone jabba and ask them the limit for a K04 turbo, then phone JBS and ask them, then phone vagtech and ask them. All better qualified and better than me and you bigging it up down the pub with bhp talk.

I guarantee 275-285bhp max limit

A mapped K04 LCR will pull a huge gap on a standard 180bhp LC from 30-120 and then well beyond that.

 

[HarveyGTI]

figures on paper and then the actual difference on a road when rolling are two different things

im my inexperienced days i use to purely go on whats on paper...but now i have been in the car world since i really became an enthusiast (approximately 7 years now, nothing compared to some!) i really go on what happens on the road

good example of this - all be it a computer game is GT on the PS2. We were testing lots of different cars around the Nurburg, completely standard cars, and there were some pleasant surprises, although what was on paper should have bought about quite a different outcome...it didn't

 

[warren_cox]

One thing that should also be considered is how useable the power is.

My LCR was probably more powerful in mid range acceleration terms than my S3, however the S3 is much quicker off the line, and can put more of its power down better when the roads are anything other than bone dry. In the end, despite my absolute love of the LCR, it became apparent that in the wet it was always going to be a bit of a handful, and its application of power to tarmac was poor. That was one of the main reasons for deciding to move on.

I'm all for big bhp figures, but TBH these days its got to the point that I don't actually know what to believe anymore in terms of quoted numbers.

Get your car to a drag strip and test it against something similar. A combination of good driving skills, decent tyres and suspension, and a well considered modification path will give you a competitive and fast car, whatever Cupra variant you end up driving.