Technical differences FR vs Cupra

[upp3rd0g]

Hi everybody

I have a mk4 Ibiza FR and I am considering the new Ibiza mk5 in FR or Cupra version.

Is anybody aware of any specific technical differences between the FR and Cupra? I am not talking about style differences, just technical differences which influence the ride. Is the only difference in the engine computer which gives the FR 150bhp and the Cupra 180bhp?

I would expect differences in disc-brake-size, disc-brake-calipers, suspension stiffness, lowered suspension, throttle response, turbocharger size, intercooler-size (does it have one?), etc.

I have searched the 'entire' internet (including this forum), asked several dealers, but no real answers, for now it seems the conclusion is: there is no difference.

If so, what justifies the pricedifference? Doing the official Seat remap is only 1500euros, resulting in more power than the cupra, and you still have 1000euros left...

I don't get it.

Cheers

Upp3rd0g

 

[Dave 77]

Il tell u as much as i no

Its the same engine in the FR and Cupra i.e tubo size but the Cupra has a diffrent map resulting in the extra BHP

Also the Cupra has a FMIC and the FR has a SMIC

As for brakes the FR comes with 288mm front brakes as does the Cupra but on the cupra there is a option of 'racing brakes' which are 4pot (i think) 312mm disks. At least this is the case in england)

As far as i no the supension is the same but i maybe wrong there along with the ride hight, either way the ride hight on both is way to high IMO

Also so ive found out from here (SCN), on the cupra there is somthing that makes the car sound louder in the cabin which isn't on the FR.

Thats all i can think of atm.

I hope that helps

 

[FR_POWER]

http://www.carsupermarkets.autotrad.../ibiza/seat-ibiza-bocanegra-and-fr-car-review

 

[JOEYNITRO]

Try this link hope it helps

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=226161&highlight=ibiza+fr+intercooler+position

 

[mainaman]

The Cupra has 5mm lower right height,15 percent firmer springs and dampers,some unique body panels,different engine map,centrally mounted trapezoidal exhaust,onboard amplifier for the engine noise and more extras incl. the AP Racing(Seat Sport) brake kit,which wouldn't fit behind FR's wheels.

My first idea was to buy a FR,but i came to the conclusion that 1000 pounds more was worth it,considering all that was added and the fact that even the ''harder'' Cupra had relatively high ride height and underdamped suspension.Some companies(cough,Renault,cough...) charge 500 quid just for stiffer suspension.

Insurance is more,of course...

 

[Octane2097]

Also the Cupra has a FMIC and the FR has a SMIC

Just checked my FR is deffntly has a FMIC

 

[mardon]

Yeah FR does have from mounted skinny cooler, same as the cupra. The main differences are styling, the exhaust and exhaust amplifier as mentioned.

If your fitting lowers springs and aren’t too fussed between the styling differences go for the FR. I’m guessing your from the EU in which case you wont get the deeper alloys required for the AP’s as standard on the cupra anyway, you’ll get what the FR gets in the UK.

As said if you don’t mind styling ether way save some money, get the FR and get it mapped. Be a mini sleeper then as well!

 

[Dave 77]

Just checked my FR is deffntly has a FMIC

Fair enought i thought it was the same as the mk4

 

[upp3rd0g]

Thank you everybody for all the input. I found the most concrete information in this post from JOEYNITRO:

[link omitted as I am not allowed to post urls pointing to "other" sites... I was pointing to seatcupra.net...]

In here I read:

=========================
The main differences compared to the chassis on the FR can be found in the stiffer shock absorbers, 15% stiffer coils and 5 mm reduced ground clearance on the front shaft, while the modified rear shaft coil and shock absorber ratings, with specifically designed shock absorbers, are suited to the new chassis set-up and more sporty feel.
=========================

About the intercooler... I cannot find conclusive information. Both are in the front with the Ibiza mk5.

About the brakes... I cannot find conclusive information. In the article mentioned above it suggest the breaks in the back are different (ventilated vs non-ventilated), but the technical specs brochures in UK or NL seem to suggest both are ventilated. Next to this it mentions changes in the vacuumpump for the servo-brake and servo-steering. Finally the Cupra allows for upgrade to Seat Racing brakes, which the FR does not take (at least in NL).

About the exhaust... it is center-positioned and they did some tricks on the sound. Obviously this doesn't have any effect on the way the car drives.

The rest of the differences are only minor styling differences.

If anybody knows any more technical differences, I would like to hear those as well!

Thank you.

Upp3rd0G

 

[techie]

Back brakes are all the same on all mk5 ibizas with rear discs.

Front brakes are the same on the FR and Cupra unless racing brakes have been specced on the Cupra.

 

[MURDO180]

You get C U P R A on the back of the Cupra and you don't on the Fr. Thats a pretty big plus.

Also i've drove both the Fr and my Cupra and as soon as you sit in the Cupra and plant the foot you'll find it hard to go back to the Fr. The power band feels larger but less lethal in the Fr compared to the Cupra. The Cupra on the other hand is 0.5 seconds quicker to 60mph as that extra 30bhp does give a bigger kick in sports mode.

Oh and when you do floor it in sports mode at around 40mph you'll realise you're laughing and woohoo'ing like a school kid on a rollercoaster

 

[upp3rd0g]

I just got a call from my local dealer. He made a call to Seat technical service of Seat Netherlands. He described the following differences between FR and Cupra:

*) size turbo manifold/inlet bigger for Cupra
*) bottom of chassis in the back is smoothed out for better suction to the road (in combination with diffuser?)
*) differences in brakes giving the Cupra more bite when breaking => he could not explain which technical differences caused this improved braking behaviour

So with all the input gathered I think I can summarize:

there are definitely differences between the Cupra and FR. They consist all of (minor?) changes in:

lowered chassis + stiffened suspension&dampers [confirmed by several sources]
possibly some changes in brakes [unconfirmed, contradicting sources]
possibly some changes in intercooler and inlet manifold [unconfirmed, contradicting sources]
main difference: remapped ECU [confirmed]

 

[CupraDean]

You get C U P R A on the back of the Cupra and you don't on the Fr. Thats a pretty big plus.

Haha this comment cracked me up!

 

[mardon]

I'd love to know it was true about the "size turbo manifold/inlet bigger for Cupra" That would mean more remapping potential... but still limited by the DSG torque...limit

 

[upp3rd0g]

I just got a call from my local dealer. He made a call to Seat technical service of Seat Netherlands. He described the following differences between FR and Cupra:

*) size turbo manifold/inlet bigger for Cupra
*) bottom of chassis in the back is smoothed out for better suction to the road (in combination with diffuser?)
*) differences in brakes giving the Cupra more bite when breaking => he could not explain which technical differences caused this improved braking behaviour

So with all the input gathered I think I can summarize:

there are definitely differences between the Cupra and FR. They consist all of (minor?) changes in:

lowered chassis + stiffened suspension&dampers [confirmed by several sources]
possibly some changes in brakes [unconfirmed, contradicting sources]
possibly some changes in intercooler and inlet manifold [unconfirmed, contradicting sources]
main difference: remapped ECU [confirmed]

I got another call from my local Seat salesperson. He had some more discussions with the technical guys of Seat Netherlands and now he could give even more details! Apparently the technical guys of Seat Netherlands went over to the showroom and took a FR and Cupra, opened up the bonnet and started comparing!

He now told me the following:

*) the inlet of the turbo to suck in air is bigger for Cupra compared to FR (so it is not the manifold!)
*) the rear brakes have different diameter (at least here in NL)
*) the front disc brakes of the Cupra are treated with some heat-resistant coating, which the FR doesn't have
*) DSG computer is programmed differently to deal with increased torque and allow even faster shifting
*) DSG gearbox is using different (more heavy-duty) gearwheels

If this all is true then I would summarize it like this:

The Cupra is modified in lots of places, the majority being minor changes, all with the goal to make the Cupra deal better with the increased power.

 

[ibizaracebrake]

Yeah FR does have from mounted skinny cooler, same as the cupra. The main differences are styling, the exhaust and exhaust amplifier as mentioned.

If your fitting lowers springs and aren’t too fussed between the styling differences go for the FR. I’m guessing your from the EU in which case you wont get the deeper alloys required for the AP’s as standard on the cupra anyway, you’ll get what the FR gets in the UK.

As said if you don’t mind styling ether way save some money, get the FR and get it mapped. Be a mini sleeper then as well!

the day after i picked up my Cupra the factory exhaust went in the bin (inc front flex section) there was no evidence of any 'exhaust amplifier' or electric valves etc. there was a similar reference to some sort of electric connection to the exhaust system to tune the sound in the 'Autocar' magazine test - like a lot of the info they published in that test, this was wrong.

 

[techie]

The noise amplifier is mounted in the scuttle area in front of the windscreen, I can confirm it's there ok.

As for the other engine parts ill have a look on Etka when I'm back at work.

 

[upp3rd0g]

As for the other engine parts ill have a look on Etka when I'm back at work.

Yes please!

 

[Ferryman]

Ibiza Cupra (EC CAVE) & FR (EC CAVF) engines are 100% identical.
There is no difference what so ever.

Transmission are technically 100% same so the claim that Cupra has stronger parts is 100% complete and utter bullshit. There might be a difference in DSG software, but I doubt it since they both use transmissions with identical identification codes.

There is no difference in intake system, even the intake air duct is the same in Cupra & FR.

Intercooler is also the same.

Rear brakes are exactly the same in whole Ibiza range.
Lucas brake system, C38HR-A calipers with a single 38mm piston, 232x9mm solid rotors.
(Same as Ibiza MK4).

The only difference between the engines is ECU.
Other has been mapped for 110kW and other for 132kW.

Oh..
I nearly forgot: There is a difference!
The emblem on the engine cover..
Other says Cupra and the other FR

 

[techie]

Which is exactly what I thought.