ARB question

[Ruddmeister]

So from what i gather on the other thread any of the makes of rear arb, will fit the LC with standard rear box fitted, that's what was concerning me...

Thanks for that, Sorry to hijack..

I won't say 'any' in case someone reads this and buys some ebay junk, but anything designed to fit the MK4 Golf will fit the rear of the LC with the OEM exhaust.......e.g. Eibach, H&R, Neuspeed etc etc.

The LCR OEM exhaust hits all of the above except Neuspeed......aftermarket exhausts with smaller rear box's may allow LCR's to take other ARB's (I know Songman has an aftermarket exhaust and a different make of ARB)

 

[RikH]

must admit im looking at arb's now (got s3 upper, lcr lower and db mount). Prob going to drop on H&R cup kit or kw coilies.......but ive got a blueflame turbo back and dont want to come across issues from either driveshafts rubbing or the exhuast itself

 

[Ruddmeister]

Having been there and shelled out for Coilovers I would say they are good but tend to be expensive and I doubt we really use their full potential on the road, a good spring and damper kit like Koni FSD with Eibach Springs may be cheaper and offer a better compromise

If I was doing it again I'd look into this option.....

 

[ADAM_84]

Those eibach ones are tempting, wouldn't it be a good idea to have both bars the same so they are the same stiffness?

 

[Cupraloon]

I won't say 'any' in case someone reads this and buys some ebay junk, but anything designed to fit the MK4 Golf will fit the rear of the LC with the OEM exhaust.......e.g. Eibach, H&R, Neuspeed etc etc.

The LCR OEM exhaust hits all of the above except Neuspeed......aftermarket exhausts with smaller rear box's may allow LCR's to take other ARB's (I know Songman has an aftermarket exhaust and a different make of ARB)

Having had a look at the various arb's on offer I'm a little puzzled why the H&R one's have the stiffer bar on the front than the rear, the others neuspeed/ eibach have the stiffer bar on the rear...

Tbh, the neuspeed don't seem to be much dearer than the other two if you shop around a bit,

When i come to get some it's a 28mm rear and 25mm front going on my lc... seeing as that seems to be the general rule of thumb on these here boards....

 

[ADAM_84]

I emailed awesome-gti for the prices of the neuspeed bars:
For the front 25mm, and rear 25mm bars, the total cost delivered is £445.33
incl. VAT
For the front 25mm, and rear 28mm bars, the total cost delivered is £457.08
incl. VAT

but from this website thanks to unclefester

http://www.eibachshop.com/index.php/cPath/454_463_625

for 25mm front and 25mm back its alot cheaper i know its a different manufacturer but would there really be a huge difference they both do the same thing except the rear bar is smaller.

 

[jonjay]

Having had a look at the various arb's on offer I'm a little puzzled why the H&R one's have the stiffer bar on the front than the rear, the others neuspeed/ eibach have the stiffer bar on the rear...

Tbh, the neuspeed don't seem to be much dearer than the other two if you shop around a bit,

When i come to get some it's a 28mm rear and 25mm front going on my lc... seeing as that seems to be the general rule of thumb on these here boards....

Stiffer bar or thicker bar? I know H&R's can be adjusted in stiffness?, apparently there are two settings?

Incase you mean thicker they are

H&Rs: 26mm Rear / 22mm Front
Eibachs: 25mm Rear / 25mm Front
Nuespeed: 28mm Rear / 25mm Front

Again i will say just because they are thicker doesnt automatically mean the car will handle better. Its all the do with the balance derived from how thick the bars are, quality of materials used, stiffness and i suppose the R&D before hand...

 

[Cupraloon]

Yep, sorry i should have been clearer, i meant thicker

From the reseach i've done the H&R arb's have a thicker bar front to rear as per this info


Category : H+R Anti-Roll Bar Kits

Sub-category : H+R Anti-Roll - Seat

Application : Leon Type 1M 4WD, 00> (25/21mm)

Product Code: H-33431-1

Front and rear anti roll bar kit. Diameters (front/rear)= 25/21mm.

__________


Category : H+R Anti-Roll Bar Kits

Sub-category : H+R Anti-Roll - Seat

Application : Leon / Toledo Type 1M 2WD 99> (26/22mm)

Product Code: H-33525-2

Front and rear anti roll bar kit. Diameters (front/rear)= 26/22mm


And i was a bit puzzled over this, cos' neuspeed & Eibach both have the thicker bar on the rear which is the way i'd have thought it should be

 

[jonjay]

Yep, sorry i should have been clearer, i meant thicker

From the reseach i've done the H&R arb's have a thicker bar front to rear as per this info


Category : H+R Anti-Roll Bar Kits

Sub-category : H+R Anti-Roll - Seat

Application : Leon Type 1M 4WD, 00> (25/21mm)

Product Code: H-33431-1

Front and rear anti roll bar kit. Diameters (front/rear)= 25/21mm.

__________


Category : H+R Anti-Roll Bar Kits

Sub-category : H+R Anti-Roll - Seat

Application : Leon / Toledo Type 1M 2WD 99> (26/22mm)

Product Code: H-33525-2

Front and rear anti roll bar kit. Diameters (front/rear)= 26/22mm


And i was a bit puzzled over this, cos' neuspeed & Eibach both have the thicker bar on the rear which is the I'd have thought it should be

Your right! Then again who is to say they are wrong? If its very well balanced for the Leon wicked...I know Slick has H&Rs and they work amazingly well.

Oh and amendment to what I said earlier they are NOT adjustable.

 

[Cupraloon]

no, no i wasn't questioning H&R i was just a bit puzzled why this should be when the others have the thicker bar on the rear, and was hopeing someone might explain why this was for us...

From my understanding of these things the thicker bar should be on the rear on fwd cars, but i might be wrong ...... it has been known (although not much)

 

[speedsix]

Combined 'thickness' of both bars dictates roll resistence. The ratio of front to rear determines handling balance.

Most standard cars have a thicker front bar than the rear, this gives safer understeer when pushed. Stifen up the rear and/or soften the front and the balance moves more towards oversteer.

You don't really want a thicker front bar than the rear. 28r/25f will change the balance considerably from the standard car and if you like to push the car hard you will have to change your driving style. It's not a problem per se, just something you need to be aware of. You can't go aggressively jumping off the throttle mid bend like you were probably doing on the stock setup.

Did a bit of a write up when I fitted my bars.

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=132423&highlight=arb+review

 

[Cupraloon]

Thanks speed that clear things up a bit, and god no , i never jump off the throttle mid bend, no.. no and trice ..no i say,

Not something you'd want to do in a fwd car thats for sure.. the world goes all dizzy when you do that..

 

[jonjay]

Good post by sixspeed! Save me the time in writing an explanation

In summary having a thicker bar gives you more oversteer. However as I said its all about balance and how stiff the bars are, how they transfer weight etc...so having a thicker bar doesnt necessarily mean its better if the arbs arnt matched well for the car.

A PRIME example is when Rudd got the rear done and noticed there was something missing in the handling. Replaced his front one to make a matching set and everything is fixed.

 

[karlosR]

i've just had a 25mm rear H&R ARB fitted yesterday. it only just touches the backbox with a 15 stone lump (me) bouncing up and down on the back end. i can't tell you if there is any improvement because my clutch release bearing decided to destroy itself i suppose on the upside while the new clutch is being fitted they can also fit the matching front ARB............... happy days!

 

[UncleFester]

You're going to be a happy happy man when you get that back, take it easy the first few bends until you get used to how the car handles - it's a night and day improvement over standard

 

[Feel]

Just chipping in with a few thoughts after reading all this:

25mm Eibach rear felt stiffer than the Neuspeed 25mm. Neuspeed felt better (on a LCR, with stock front). So size is not the only factor in stiffness, then. I believe the Neuspeed is a hollow bar, not sure about the Eibach, so the wall thickness will determine the stiffness. Bending moments, and all that.

The Neuspeed rear is three position adjustable.

I think they've got the sizes the wrong way round on the H&R info listed above.

 

[karlosR]

i've gone for the H&R 25mm front and rear.

 

[Feel]

25/25mm Is that what H&R sell as a set?

 

[jonjay]

KarlosR you mean Eibachs?

 

[karlosR]

no, i mean 25mm front and rear H&R ARB's. i got them from TTS