Are Induction Heatshields really worth it? Anyone got logs?

[jonjay]

So how effective is the cold air feeds then? I was thinking yesterday when i read this thread, how much difference does it make how cold the air is when it goes into the turbo and does it, how ever cold it is when it went through the turbo arrive at the intercooler around the same temp, i can see how on a N/A car the colder the air is the better as it goes straight into the engine, but with turbo cars it gets heated by the turbo, so is it down to how good the intercooler is to how cool the air is when it goes into the engine.
Discuss.....

It is the density of the air that makes the difference. Colder the air the more dense and the hotter the less dense. Hence why in the summer the engine needs more air to produce good results and in winter it needs less.

Of course it will need a certain amount to begin with.

 

[Phillc]

Density is just part of it though. The question was how much difference is there between the air temp going into the turbo and the end temp going into the engine, does having a cold feed to the filter make that much difference? Or is having an efficient intercooler making more of a difference; if the air going into the turbo is 2 degrees hotter than a cold feed, is that 2 degree's difference maintained throughout the system. And there for more or less dense air, whatever 2 degrees more or less equates to in greater % of dense air.

 

[RobDon]

They are pointless on turbo cars, been proved over and over - cold air feeds and shields do nothing, I've tried both types - fully enclosed intake with direct cold air feed Vs open cone with nothing, intake temps were no different. The intercooler does the work of cooling the charge air, air filter has nothing to do with it.

 

[MonkeyTibs]

So yeah... anyone want to buy an almost-new Jabba Heatshield?

 

[Phillc]

They are pointless on turbo cars, been proved over and over - cold air feeds and shields do nothing, I've tried both types - fully enclosed intake with direct cold air feed Vs open cone with nothing, intake temps were no different. The intercooler does the work of cooling the charge air, air filter has nothing to do with it.

Thanks Rob this what i was thinking, it didn't make any sence as the turbo heats the air anyway.

So yeah... anyone want to buy an almost-new Jabba Heatshield?

seen two on ebay today well Neuspeed one's

 

[jonjay]

Density is just part of it though. The question was how much difference is there between the air temp going into the turbo and the end temp going into the engine, does having a cold feed to the filter make that much difference? Or is having an efficient intercooler making more of a difference; if the air going into the turbo is 2 degrees hotter than a cold feed, is that 2 degree's difference maintained throughout the system. And there for more or less dense air, whatever 2 degrees more or less equates to in greater % of dense air.

They are pointless on turbo cars, been proved over and over - cold air feeds and shields do nothing, I've tried both types - fully enclosed intake with direct cold air feed Vs open cone with nothing, intake temps were no different. The intercooler does the work of cooling the charge air, air filter has nothing to do with it.

Well density of the air is the key factor which is why cold air feeds where designed in the first place. To say they are pointless on turbo power cars really is frustrating because they are not pointless and it has been proven that they do make a difference.

when you start talking about temperature then you have to consider density. Have read various articles about this here is some info I have learnt from it all.

I think this explains it very well http://www.turborx7.com/turboinfo.html

EDIT: I am not sure how well heat shields work however. I suppose the argument is not is cold air good or bad, its do heat sheilds work...no idea so sorry if I haven't added anything to the discussion.

 

[RobDon]

They are pointless and make very, very little to zero difference to the intake temp, the turbo heats the air to 130-odd degrees, regardless of how much the air filter is shielded or fed cold air. The intercooler is the part that cools it down before it enters the engine. The reason turbo cars perform better in winter is due to colder air hitting the intercooler and cooling it down better than warm air in summer - nothing to do with the filter.

 

[jonjay]

The denser the air the more the turbo can flow which means more power, obviously upto a point. Its part of a lot of things that helps make good power.

 

[RobDon]

But the point is the turbo heats the air up to over 100 degrees C, which defeats the whole point of trying to get cold, dense air into the engine. If cold, dense air was SO vital then why don't any big tuners bother trying to construct airboxes on their tuned turbo cars - because it doesn't matter.

 

[Mashburn]

So yeah... anyone want to buy an almost-new Jabba Heatshield?

I wish you'd posted this earlier in the week!!

I've just taken delivery of a brand new one. Whether or not it makes a difference, i have no idea....but i think they smart and make a nice touch in the engine bay.

 

[jonjay]

But the point is the turbo heats the air up to over 100 degrees C, which defeats the whole point of trying to get cold, dense air into the engine. If cold, dense air was SO vital then why don't any big tuners bother trying to construct airboxes on their tuned turbo cars - because it doesn't matter.

I am not advocating heatshields. What I am trying to state is that ultimately the turbo needs as much air as it can possibly get (up to a certain point). Feeding the turbo hot air is not going to help as it will require a much larger volume of air to get things going. Feeding the turbo cold air will enable the turbo to flow as much air as it needs quicker thus reducing spool up time. This is regardless of whether the turbo has heated the air up as this process is later on.

Anyway I dont think I can add any more to the discussion. Its up to poeple to make their own minds up at the end of the day.

 

[Gubien]

I made a flow of 206 g/s yesterday with stock airfilterbox and a pipercross foam panel filter which is like 40£... Compared with my HKS Reloaded 80/200 and my BMC CDA-SP12, its VERY good value for money and alot esier to install.. LOL

 

[gezmeister]

So yeah... anyone want to buy an almost-new Jabba Heatshield?

Me

 

[J0N]

There seem to be a lot of myths in the modding world.

Reminds me of your coilover thread.

I personally dont see the point in heatshields for filters. Even if the air getting to the filter is a tiny bit warm, it gets loads hotter when it goes through the turbo, then cooled down again by the intercooler.

The more available air the better.

So how effective is the cold air feeds then? I was thinking yesterday when i read this thread, how much difference does it make how cold the air is when it goes into the turbo and does it, how ever cold it is when it went through the turbo arrive at the intercooler around the same temp, i can see how on a N/A car the colder the air is the better as it goes straight into the engine, but with turbo cars it gets heated by the turbo, so is it down to how good the intercooler is to how cool the air is when it goes into the engine.
Discuss.....

I'd agree with that.

They are pointless on turbo cars, been proved over and over - cold air feeds and shields do nothing, I've tried both types - fully enclosed intake with direct cold air feed Vs open cone with nothing, intake temps were no different. The intercooler does the work of cooling the charge air, air filter has nothing to do with it.

Tried both ways so an informed opinion.

They are pointless and make very, very little to zero difference to the intake temp, the turbo heats the air to 130-odd degrees, regardless of how much the air filter is shielded or fed cold air. The intercooler is the part that cools it down before it enters the engine. The reason turbo cars perform better in winter is due to colder air hitting the intercooler and cooling it down better than warm air in summer - nothing to do with the filter.

I am not advocating heatshields. What I am trying to state is that ultimately the turbo needs as much air as it can possibly get (up to a certain point). Feeding the turbo hot air is not going to help as it will require a much larger volume of air to get things going. Feeding the turbo cold air will enable the turbo to flow as much air as it needs quicker thus reducing spool up time. This is regardless of whether the turbo has heated the air up as this process is later on.

While this is of course true, you are describing large differences in air temperature where a heat shield may only reduce temps by a degree or two but might stifle volume intake by a much larger amount.

Thanks for the input everyone, from the above I'd say that the way forward is a big air filter and a quality intercooler setup.

 

[JamJay]

Feeding the turbo hot air is not going to help as it will require a much larger volume of air to get things going. Feeding the turbo cold air will enable the turbo to flow as much air as it needs quicker thus reducing spool up time. This is regardless of whether the turbo has heated the air up as this process is later on.

Cooling the air isn't the job of the air filter however, having an air filter that feeds more air into the turbo is only a good thing. As jonjay says, the colder the air is around it, the greater the amount of air that can be drawn in, allowing the turbo and engine to work at their full capacity. What happens inside the turbo is the job of the intercooler.

As you say J0N, FMIC and a giant JETEX will be the best

 

[traumapat]

While this is of course true, you are describing large differences in air temperature where a heat shield may only reduce temps by a degree or two but might stifle volume intake by a much larger amount.

Thanks for the input everyone, from the above I'd say that the way forward is a big air filter and a quality intercooler setup.

The two heatshields mentioned wont stifle the volume of air, Im using the Jabba one which forms a seal and prior to this ran the 225 oem box, both worked well on my BT set up.

As you say in terms of temps , intercooler is the ticket

 

[skullmunki]

I'm thinking of trying to route some direct air ducting pipe into mine, but then when feeding from behind the front fog you worry about water ingress. Can of worms!?!

I've got ducting running from the foglight grille up to the filter...

I can't really see water ingress being an issue, the ducting is only supplying a route for the cooler air to the filter. If it was a fixed part of the intake with air being pulled through it, i'd be a bit more wary about using it.

 

[itfben]

I agree with DPJ think they are a waste of time to be honest.
Basically you are making it into an enlosed filter, like a BMC CDA, and I personally found a major difference in flow rate between this and an open filter, with good air feed, in favour of the open filter.

Different kettle of fish if running one on an N/A engine though IMO......

How do you mean, Iv a N/A engine and look into a heat shield.

 

[gezmeister]

How do you mean, Iv a N/A engine and look into a heat shield.

With an n/a engine, you havn't got the air being super heated by a turbo, so may work better on an n/a engine. Not sure you'd see any gain on a 1.6 leon though