BenS1 said:
I did'nt Ben.
I still run Helix. Paddle cos of dog-box sequential g'box. Very aggresive changes mechanically.
Jabba IHI, Still ongoing
- Thread starter ibizacupra
- Start date
I did'nt Ben.
I still run Helix. Paddle cos of dog-box sequential g'box. Very aggresive changes mechanically.
Miridor said:Clutch is a single plate thing ( No pucks ) i have notice huge understeer now in the wet its taking some getting use to thats for shore but in the dry its brilliant
Diff only working under power.... go into corners trailing throttle and you get terminal understeer.
Its mind over matter... trust me. Keep your foot in.
Miridor said:
Cheers.
Yes, I'm (probably) going big port head, uprated pistons, 1.9 bore etc. But straight from the off. They want to do the stage 3 first and then the extra stuff later..... need to find a gearbox solution anyway.
Ben
Just chewing over some options myself...BenS1 said:
1.9... nice but ferking expensive... worth it?
Whatever rebuild *should* IMHO include valves. (1.8T failures on high power turbo upgrades have been valve related.)
Whats the poiint in buying a really good 1.9 motor with stock OE valves (known to break and totally destroy the motor, Bye Bye £4K+ engine & turbo)
Large Port head...
Will this promote more top end power at the expense of low to mid performance. If it pushes power into the high 7K low 8K rpm.... valve train is a serious consideration. (valves, springs, retainers...)
What to do..
I am thinking of going full stage3 330-350bhp but limiting boost to 15-16psi, roughly what Bill had initially 325bhp approx. Should still be quite fast.
hmmm. thought it was 18psi.. memory playing up again perhaps.. 1.2bar is what it started at which is 18psi.
Prolly got it wrong back then I suspect. but then again it was so long ago... and I'm getting old.
24psi now tho
Prolly got it wrong back then I suspect. but then again it was so long ago... and I'm getting old.
24psi now tho
ibizacupra said:Just chewing over some options myself...
1.9... nice but ferking expensive... worth it?
Whatever rebuild *should* IMHO include valves. (1.8T failures on high power turbo upgrades have been valve related.)
Whats the poiint in buying a really good 1.9 motor with stock OE valves (known to break and totally destroy the motor, Bye Bye £4K+ engine & turbo)
Large Port head...
Will this promote more top end power at the expense of low to mid performance. If it pushes power into the high 7K low 8K rpm.... valve train is a serious consideration. (valves, springs, retainers...)
What to do..
Is it expensive? I was given the impression it wasn't that expensive at all (Given the fact that if I wasn't going 1.9 then I'd get new Rods and Pistons anyway).
Valves, yes I'll get them done too. Whats available and what should I go for? Can you get sodium filled ones? How much does it cost?
As you point out, the large port head will give more top end at the expense of a little lower down torque.... easily corrected with a bit more boost though!
Can the valve train be upgraded? Any idea on cost?
Ultimately arn't we talking about is doing what you had done to your Golf but in the Ibiza?! ie. Golfy was 400+bhp.
My biggest concerns are teh gearbox, and even the driveshafts (Although if I go 02M then both issues will be addressed at the same time).
Getting the stage 3 for now though. Will get used to that first.
Anything else that needs doing/strengthening? I think Autotechniks mentioned something about using ARP big end bolts? Does this add a lot of strength and why aren't Jabba using them on the stage 3 kits?
I'd rather have the engine strengthened with a large safety margine. ie. If I'm running 350bhp I want the engine strong enough for 450bhp, and if I goto 400bhp then I want it good for 500bhp. Although I expect the wallet may have something to say about that!
Ben
BenS1 said:Is it expensive? I was given the impression it wasn't that expensive at all (Given the fact that if I wasn't going 1.9 then I'd get new Rods and Pistons anyway).
Valves, yes I'll get them done too. Whats available and what should I go for? Can you get sodium filled ones? How much does it cost?
As you point out, the large port head will give more top end at the expense of a little lower down torque.... easily corrected with a bit more boost though!
Can the valve train be upgraded? Any idea on cost?
Ultimately arn't we talking about is doing what you had done to your Golf but in the Ibiza?! ie. Golfy was 400+bhp.
My biggest concerns are teh gearbox, and even the driveshafts (Although if I go 02M then both issues will be addressed at the same time).
Getting the stage 3 for now though. Will get used to that first.
Anything else that needs doing/strengthening? I think Autotechniks mentioned something about using ARP big end bolts? Does this add a lot of strength and why aren't Jabba using them on the stage 3 kits?
I'd rather have the engine strengthened with a large safety margine. ie. If I'm running 350bhp I want the engine strong enough for 450bhp, and if I goto 400bhp then I want it good for 500bhp. Although I expect the wallet may have something to say about that!
Ben
Your existing exhaust valves are sodium filled - 6mm stems.. mighty thin and hollow. SNAP!
If you get rods, you will by default get ARP (or equivalent) fasteners
Stage 3 is'nt invasive on engine tho is it? (or is it? - whatever stage 3 actually is LOL - confused.
)Valve gear/valve train is work in progress on spec front for me. No conclusions yet & discussions continue.
Up the boost to make up for low end loss, apart from the reduced low end gas speed hence laggier anyhow. chicken and egg.
Expensive... Oh Yes! for 1.9 motor.. got prices from Elton myself
and Golfy did get 1.9 bottom end as the original plan of 2nd oversize OE pistons could'nt source pistons in acceptable (to me) timescale. - Engine was/is only as strong as its weakest component, which in Golfys case was valve gear (again! Sadly with new owner..dropped exhaust valve @ the ring... comlpetely destroyed engine. totally pointless building strong bottom end if you leave stock valve gear which is KNOWN to break on occasions, thereby bashing hell out of the cylinder head, piston(s), turbo (debris), score block etc etc - Only salvagable thing being rods. woohoo, Big Deal!) - Knowing this... as I do, this is why I am asking open questions on a public forum on whether in the quest for more and more power you want to push the revs and boost to higher and higehr levels.. (lets face it wheel spin in 5th gear in wet is a tad excessive with ~350bhp) there comes a point of whats usable. - Not saying I am content to stop here cos I always want to push things... so I can always wind it back again into the sane level (read usuable) - 400bhp is a nice number to aim for for no other reason than its a round number 
Drivability however remains my biggest personal goal and not something I am prepared to loose in the quest for who's got the biggest knob.. Erm I mean... got the most power. (I'll remain content with a small usable d1ck..Erm I mean driveble car)All good fun tho eh?
regards
bill
ibizacupra said:
Ah, didn't know that.
If you get rods, you will by default get ARP (or equivalent) fasteners
Stage 3 is'nt invasive on engine tho is it? (or is it? - whatever stage 3 actually is LOL - confused.
You are right stage 3 does not open the engine. I'm going a little bit beyond normal stage 3. Well, I'm considering it anyway (Want to get a feel for stage 3 before commiting any further).
If I stick at stage 3 then I will still get uprated rods/pistons for the extra safety margin.
So theres no off the shelf upgrade then?
If you are looking at getting something specially made, then I could be interested in sharing the development costs with you, providing its not too expensive.
Expensive... Oh Yes! for 1.9 motor.. got prices from Elton myself
Hmmm. I'm sure Elton said that its just labour, plus about £20 per cylinder for boring and then the cost of the pistons and rods. I know the rods and pistons are pricey, but I was gonna get some even if I stayed 1.8. Are the 1.9 pistons more expensive then?
Sounds nastey.
Yes as you say the engine is only as strong as the weakest component... and I wouldn't even consider going for much more power without addressng the valves (Thanks for telling me BTW as I wasn't aware that they were the weak point).
(lets face it wheel spin in 5th gear in wet is a tad excessive with ~350bhp) there comes a point of whats usable. - Not saying I am content to stop here cos I always want to push things... so I can always wind it back again into the sane level (read usuable) - 400bhp is a nice number to aim for for no other reason than its a round number
All good fun tho eh?
regards
bill
Yeah I'm gonna see how I go with the stage 3 first. IF I feel it needs more power at a later date then I'll go for it then..... depending on cost of course.
Cheers
Ben
Not forgetting the cost of rebuilding the engine & replacing the stretch bolts etc
also I'm interested in why you've chosen an arbitury 100bhp 'safety' zone.
also I'm interested in why you've chosen an arbitury 100bhp 'safety' zone.
I intend to use Raceware studs on my new engine, and other associated fixings won't be stock ones. (Raceware mains, ARP big ends with new forged rods anyhow)
Button it down good and solid.
Girdle, oil scraper, baffled sump.... EAK.. its all adding up.
I would be surprised if a 1.9 motor could be built (for you a customer) for less than £4K
Button it down good and solid.
Girdle, oil scraper, baffled sump.... EAK.. its all adding up.
I would be surprised if a 1.9 motor could be built (for you a customer) for less than £4K
BenS1 said:
Yeah I'm gonna see how I go with the stage 3 first. IF I feel it needs more power at a later date then I'll go for it then..... depending on cost of course.
Cheers
Ben
Good move.
320+bhp is a very handy step change.
m0rk said:
Its that round number again.
The figures on Jabbas website show that the gearbox (With Quaife) and rods are good for 320lbft. Get the stage 3 kit, and turn the boost up just a little and you could have 300lbft.... that just doesn't seem like enough of a safety margin to me!
Basically, I want the power but I also want reliability.
Theres been a few failures of big turbo 1.8Ts, and I want to learn from these. I'd rather prevent a failure than fix it after its failed. 100bhp margine was just a number I picked out of the air.
Also, when people such as Jabba quote that the gearbox is only good upto 320lbft, does that take into account shock loadings? Coz a car that can produce 320lbft sustained engine power can probably produce well over 400lbft in shock loadings (Jumps etc) couldn't it? (Again, the 400lbft was a conventient guestimate round number).
Cheers
Ben
Saul said:the thing is, when u get up into this league of power its not a case of if things break but when, nothing is impervious even ultrahardanium.
True. But as Jabbas website says that they can tune the 1.8T upto 650bhp, I'd imagine that if you built the engine to that spec but only ran it at 350bhp then it should be pretty reliable.
Obviously it wouldn't be cost effective.
And other parts of the car would still break.
Ben
Similar threads
