Sorry sir. 
Gary put his point across in a nice way this is true but we all know what he was getting at.
Gary put his point across in a nice way this is true but we all know what he was getting at.
Baz i'll take that as you dont have any?cuprabaz said:
This is also in wrong place too.....mods+tuning....dyno plots and power claims
What mods you running seen A+M in sig AM04 turbo? software etc? i know you are on SMIC any other mods?
cuprabaz said:Sorry sir.
Gary put his point across in a nice way this is true but we all know what he was getting at.
Nope we didnt, as he points out he was just as questioning about Awesome's RR too. Nothing wrong with a bit of information, its how we all gain knowledge.
cuprabaz said:Sorry sir.
Gary put his point across in a nice way this is true but we all know what he was getting at.
I was getting at "why are the losses so high".
I don't doubt your wheelpower figures but do doubt your flywheel figures due to high losses.
But we all know that wheelpower is how a car is measured anyway and flywheel figures are irrelevant.
Simon, you saw losses of 45hp at Star as well.
To repeat what Jim Cotton said, thats the power of a small car!!
To repeat what Jim Cotton said, thats the power of a small car!!
Not just Star Gary, Falkland, Dastek Dalgety bay and Dastek @ wallace performance all get 40+bhp drag.
vern said:Baz i'll take that as you dont have any?
This is also in wrong place too.....mods+tuning....dyno plots and power claims
What mods you running seen A+M in sig AM04 turbo? software etc? i know you are on SMIC any other mods?
running a ko3s & 1.1Bar custom map, 3" AM dp & 2.5" custom system no middle box, RSD intake, open dynatwist, modified maf, evoshield gasket.
AM FMIC core sitting waiting for the rest of the kit to turn up.
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Btw not having a pop @ star , jim cotton rates jim curley as one of the most through and methodical tuners around, yeah i heard that with my own ears last saturday
Most maha dynos (stealth, star etc) read a maxed out ko3s at 240-250hp flywheel. 200-210whp+40losses
Jbs piper dyno reads a maxed out ko3s at 240-250hp flywheel. 215-225whp+25losses
Awesomes dynojet reads maxed out ko3s cars at 240hp. 225whp+15 losses.
Odd that all the fwhp are in the same range, yet the whp are all over the place.
Dynos are not measuring drivetrain losses, they are adding the rotational inertia of the drivetrain to the inertia of the rollers, to get a power figure.
Big rollers/load means that the drivetrain has less inertia compared to the dyno, so the % losses are less.
Smaller rollers with lower load mean that the drivetrain inertia is more proportionally to the rollers, so you see bigger losses.
Your drivetrain loses 5% at most, but there is no way a dyno can measure it.
in other words whp figures are just as meaningless as fw figures. \don't try to compare one dyno of one manufacturer to one from another. Pointless.
Most dynos give a realistic fwhp figure plus or minus 10% or so.
They are a tuning tool. Not a power measure
Jbs piper dyno reads a maxed out ko3s at 240-250hp flywheel. 215-225whp+25losses
Awesomes dynojet reads maxed out ko3s cars at 240hp. 225whp+15 losses.
Odd that all the fwhp are in the same range, yet the whp are all over the place.
Dynos are not measuring drivetrain losses, they are adding the rotational inertia of the drivetrain to the inertia of the rollers, to get a power figure.
Big rollers/load means that the drivetrain has less inertia compared to the dyno, so the % losses are less.
Smaller rollers with lower load mean that the drivetrain inertia is more proportionally to the rollers, so you see bigger losses.
Your drivetrain loses 5% at most, but there is no way a dyno can measure it.
in other words whp figures are just as meaningless as fw figures. \don't try to compare one dyno of one manufacturer to one from another. Pointless.
Most dynos give a realistic fwhp figure plus or minus 10% or so.
They are a tuning tool. Not a power measure
I forgot to say. Nice to see you're still beating the crap out of my old K03s baz.
It must have been a good one
It must have been a good one
Wilko said:I forgot to say. Nice to see you're still beating the crap out of my old K03s baz.
It must have been a good one
It's still flying!! I've had it off a couple of times and those tiny cracks are still tiny. Maybe a tweek to the map for some more boost once the front mount goes on.
Finally Wilko talks some sense, someone who actually knows what they are talking about! It is strange that cars on a Dynojet that make around 225whp will be lucky to make 200 on a MAHA dyno - as you say a dyno is a tuning tool not a pub bragging rights device!
I only compare my car to those on the same dyno, same day as an indication of my power, couldn't care less what others say or claim as they cannot be compared (as you also said Wilko). Yesterday a Jabba remapped LCR 225 with some mods made 268hp, 224whp and 281lbft at the fly, which is pretty much what he left Jabba with - I made 266hp, 229whp and 310lbft.
Back on topic, as a tuning tool Jim's dyno proved to Barry that the recent mods he did have worked as power and torque have both gone up from last time - so well done Barry.
I only compare my car to those on the same dyno, same day as an indication of my power, couldn't care less what others say or claim as they cannot be compared (as you also said Wilko). Yesterday a Jabba remapped LCR 225 with some mods made 268hp, 224whp and 281lbft at the fly, which is pretty much what he left Jabba with - I made 266hp, 229whp and 310lbft.
Back on topic, as a tuning tool Jim's dyno proved to Barry that the recent mods he did have worked as power and torque have both gone up from last time - so well done Barry.
Erm.. i dont know much about RRs really but when Jim at awesome logged my car b4 and after the remap it gave 179.8Bhp on a 3 month old Fr that should be 180 Bhp is that not bang on?? 
RobDon said:
Why rob who else did not make sense?
Just Baz said dynojet's were crap and i asked why?
and are we in a pub then?
Wilko says we cannot compare dyno's then, so why do we? did,nt know stealth's were maha john, thought they were SUN for some reason,i actually know how a dyno works, and there faults, for sure they are not fool proof, but what else we got?
vern said:
Looking at Stealths website they are indeed Sun Ram 12 rollers
http://www.stealthracing.co.uk/rolling_road.php
Also losses or "drag" are calulated @ coast down( i.e no load on gears etc) the losses @ 6K+ revs will be higher(and will vary from car to car), Hence WHP is more accurate......... which everyone know's
E.G 2 x chipped lcr's on same dyno, same day( with theoretical same whp)
1st Lcr WHP= 220 bhp + 20 bhp drag = 240 Fly HP
2nd lcr WHP= 220 bhp + 30 bhp drag = 250 Fly HP (brembo caliper sticking/pad rub)
DYNO Lottery(Bill TM.)
Why dont a few of you boys( Rob+ Baz ) and anyone one else come down to awesome over christmas for the 3 day event, and get a WHP reading on the dynojet, you never know rob you may have more power than you thought
E.G 2 x chipped lcr's on same dyno, same day( with theoretical same whp)
1st Lcr WHP= 220 bhp + 20 bhp drag = 240 Fly HP
2nd lcr WHP= 220 bhp + 30 bhp drag = 250 Fly HP (brembo caliper sticking/pad rub)
DYNO Lottery(Bill TM.)
Why dont a few of you boys( Rob+ Baz ) and anyone one else come down to awesome over christmas for the 3 day event, and get a WHP reading on the dynojet, you never know rob you may have more power than you thought
Craigc said:
Craig.......
WHP 194.5 is comparable to a stock LCR 225 run @ awesome on dynojet
these were 3 x consecutive runs a week ago:
192................195..................197 all bhp @ the wheels
207.................210..................213 clutch bhp
208..................208.................208 Lbft on all 3 runs!!!!! stock is 206Lbft!!!!
As you can see WHP and torque(what the dyno actually measures) are pretty much spot on(Dynojet V Maha), maybe your green panel is worth the extra few lbft
Rate these had one on my LCR, where it falls down or up lol, is the losses calc or drag Dynojet @ 15 ish bhp Maha @ 40 ish bhp, which is right who cares,WHP more or less same Similar threads
