Just back from Star RR day.

[Awesome jimbo]

many moons ago.. on an infant SCN, I organised a RR (SCN 1st ever) at a local Chelt RR outfit. I invited formally a bunch of tuners (UK) to the day to show off their wares to an expectant customer base, on the same dyno same day.
Several of the tuners declined on the grounds of I quote: "rr dyno's can be run in such a way to give misleading figures etc"

Make of that what you will.

One thing from that day did become very apparent however, is that the way the cars were run, the loads were applied, the available cooling available (for SMIC's for example), all made for very different (lower) figures than expected by the majority of chipped cars.

We've seen from an earlier abortive RR event with SCN, that these RR variables, in the hands of the inexperienced, can also make a mockery of the hardware, contradicting the power figures claimed from the software they sell.
Rollers? Operator? Software? Hardware?



Dyno Lottery(TM)

double edged sword tho Jim maybe? Everything you ever sold previously which is'nt going to be proven on the dyno?

I look forward to making the trip up to your place sometime soon with my ibiza.. I am intrigued to see how the figures run on the Dynojet.

cheers m8

This is the reason for me giving 3 runs on a RR day- trying to show that repeatability is the one thing to strive for. We all know the effect heat has on these cars but if we cannot give repeatability how can we evaluate the gains/losses of software/hardware ?This was the reason for getting an enormous coolingfan. As i said before the real use of the dyno is for the tuner to validate product and not show the customer what he EXPECTS to see.

 

[ibizacupra]

from what I've seen and heard from the recent SCN day, the dynojet is a very good repeating dyno.

no wheelspin either which I find staggering. (when on the road currently I am getting 120mph spin in 4th)

 

[ccvrs]

With emerging tunning aids from Europe, anyone will soon be able to do adjustments (some can already) to achieve higher than normal results on RR days (anybodys rollers as on the day alls relative)
Put an extra squirt of this product or that product and get good figures. Anybody ran 100LL they will know a difference but how many drive in that mode all the time.
Like you say Jim, we need to know what products do what to what car.
I was looking at changing my exhaust until someone on the same RR day with the same filter and map ran a few BHP less. Was that fuel alone can shell v's supermarket make that much difference.
Keep up the good work in telling us what products work Jim but make sure the fuel is "standard"

 

[ibizacupra]

*cough* millers

 

[DPJ]

*cough* millers

Did some go down the wrong way, Bill?

 

[ibizacupra]

Did some go down the wrong way, Bill?

yea..

410bhp on regular optisnax...
used to bung some in like the other boys do (cant beat em join em )

tis good stuff

 

[Awesome jimbo]

With emerging tunning aids from Europe, anyone will soon be able to do adjustments (some can already) to achieve higher than normal results on RR days (anybodys rollers as on the day alls relative)
Put an extra squirt of this product or that product and get good figures. Anybody ran 100LL they will know a difference but how many drive in that mode all the time.
Like you say Jim, we need to know what products do what to what car.
I was looking at changing my exhaust until someone on the same RR day with the same filter and map ran a few BHP less. Was that fuel alone can shell v's supermarket make that much difference.
Keep up the good work in telling us what products work Jim but make sure the fuel is "standard"

There will always be 'boundries' pushed and as anyone can get easy bought power. The secret is to get the basics right first and then follow a tried and tested route. Too many people play the numbers game and add up the expected BHP gains and come to a cloud cuckoo figure. Like the swapping of N75 valves etc. people are using the 'seat of pants' dyno and kidding themselves they have added power! The body tries to sense acceleration and so with a bit more noise etc. it must be quicker!
Also there are so many components that can fail or weaken ie. DV, MAF,N75, engine temp sensor, etc and give poor readings. The secret is development on a good condition car and keeping an eye on certain components for break down or failure. We saw for example an Ibiza with a failing N75 lose 20 BHP before a good stock item was fitted !
Again this all boils down to repeatability of your rollers as a delicate measuring instrument. If people have to sit on front panels or spray tyre grip glue to stop wheel spin,how can these condiions possibly be repeated to dignose/develop vehicles ?

 

[RobDon]

I agree with *some* of your points - it still all boils down to on the actual road with the bonnet down - it's pointless bragging about huge numbers if the car is totally un-usable on the road, you'll get handed your a55 all the time by lesser cars. People over-analyse dyno numbers and hang off every BHP way too much - on the road/track/1/4 mile is where is counts, i.e. the REAL world.

Get a balanced package with decent power, good grip, handling, brakes, etc. as that is FAR more important that just making huge numbers on a dyno. Anyone can buy big power, the secret is making it usable and in FWD case, tractable. Can you imagine how quick Bill's car would be with 4WD - wow!

 

[Awesome jimbo]

I agree with *some* of your points - it still all boils down to on the actual road with the bonnet down - it's pointless bragging about huge numbers if the car is totally un-usable on the road, you'll get handed your a55 all the time by lesser cars. People over-analyse dyno numbers and hang off every BHP way too much - on the road/track/1/4 mile is where is counts, i.e. the REAL world.

Get a balanced package with decent power, good grip, handling, brakes, etc. as that is FAR more important that just making huge numbers on a dyno. Anyone can buy big power, the secret is making it usable and in FWD case, tractable. Can you imagine how quick Bill's car would be with 4WD - wow!

100% agree ! Too much is placed on the numbers and as stated before should be used as a tuning tool and a lie detector ! An accurate dyno can still help as a picture image of how the car will feel on the road. After that it is as you say a matter of getting that power down to the tarmac.This is obviously not measurable on the dyno and comes down to trial,error and practice ! On a track, racing motor bikes the best way to quicker lap times in my experience is superb brakes ! Not high up on most peoples shopping list to make a fast road car ! But thats another subject !

 

[ibizacupra]

On a track, racing motor bikes the best way to quicker lap times in my experience is superb brakes ! Not high up on most peoples shopping list to make a fast road car ! But thats another subject !

wanna bet

not been outbraked by anything yet. (que someone to now kick my arse )

Totally agree with ya Jim.. on track, where I spend a lot of time during the course of a year, the one area where I singly claw back big chunks of time on others is under braking. Not to slow in the corners either, and there are always other powerful cars in a straight line, (not so many now admitedly, but the ibiza is beatable in straight line performance), but add to it the abilty to stop very late and carry pretty good corner speed makes a huge difference.

 

[m0rk]

but add to it the abilty to stop very late and carry pretty good corner speed makes a huge difference.

And the ability to last a whole race helps.

 

[Simon L]

Anyway.... back to Barrys thread about Star...

Standard Ibiza Cupra R made 182bhp and 183lb/ft on the same day.

 

[ibizacupra]

And the ability to last a whole race helps.

aye.. "to finish first, first you have to finish."