Leon Mk1 front subframe bushings

[Nautilus]

There aren't brake lines, wires or ducts inside the subframe

I had some weird ideas to stiffen the subframe without welding (which is invitation for rust): "seam-welding" with epoxy resin in the seams between welded spots, foam inside, aluminium cage etc

Right now I run a Wiechers lower tie-bar on the subframe, augmented by upper Wiechers strut brace, and a Powerflex poly+rubber dogbone, but it still doesn't seem "stiff as a M3". (And I'm not fond of E36 M3s, the league to aim for is Lotus Esprit-like chassis construction and manoeuvrability, weird as it sounds )

If everybody is sure the non-LCR Leons run on Golf-like soft one-piece bushings, then TT bushings are the next step

~Nautilus

 

[Nautilus]

Just asked today at an automotive parts shop:

- Golf MKIV and Leon MK1 have the same code for subframe bushing, and it's one-piece;
- FWD Audi TT, TT Roadster and Leon MK1 Cupra R have the same code for subframe bushing, and it's two-piece.

Maybe in the next two weeks they will be fitted and I can say how it performs

~Nautilus

 

[Neil_Ireland]

Couple of pics for you.

Solid rear wishbone bushing as opposed to the one with voids in it.

TT roadster rear subframe bushing

 

[Nautilus]

Thank you

Is the "solid rear wishbone bushing" a TT-type part as well? (LC/LFR bushing has 4 holes in it) Should I also try to change it?

Is the part number in the picture (A8N0 407 181 B) the number for "solid rear wishbone bushing"?

~Nautilus

 

[Nautilus]

Changed the subframe bushings at a local workshop today, together with the intercooler (fitted a Boost Factory SMIC).

Have not driven yet at high enough speeds to feel the difference, but the slight vibration at tickover caused by the Powerflex dogbone has further diminished, although the bushings are harder

~Nautilus

 

[Neil_Ireland]

Is it the two piece audi TT bushings you fitted, the ones in the second picture?
Were they difficult to fit, did you need to remove the subframe or use a press to fit them?

I want to do this modification in the near future.

Thanks,
Neil.

 

[Willie]

Neil theres a top tip to fitting these

When you get them stick them in the freezer, this shrinks them a bit which is enough to make these a push fit

 

[Neil_Ireland]

Neil theres a top tip to fitting these

When you get them stick them in the freezer, this shrinks them a bit which is enough to make these a push fit

Excellent, thanks!

 

[Nautilus]

The bushings were the TT model, being in two halves fit by hand, there was no need to press them. Stock one-piece bushings are pressed. The subframe has been tilted by loosening the front bolts and the stock bushings were broken with a hand drill

Understeer has much diminished but it's still present. Can hold higher speed in turns, less(almost zero) vibration in the steering wheel from the Powerflex dogbone, no ill effects

~Nautilus

 

[Neil_Ireland]

Great stuff Nautilus,

Any chance you could post the part numbers for the two piece TT bushings and bolts, I found them before but can't remember where.

Thanks,
Neil.

 

[Nautilus]

8N0 199 282C - Upper Half Bush (ribbed)
8N0 199 282D - Lower Half Bush (smooth)
N 907 528 01 - Subframe Stretch Bolt with Bigger Washer

You need 2 of each part.

Original Golf-type bushings have a larger top and smaller bottom and will fit only in one position with a press. Two-piece bushings can be hand-fitted in either position (the mechanic said top and bottom halves are nearly identical and interchangeable) and their halves are united by a teflon ring while pressed by the bolt

It takes about 1 hour to fit in a workshop

~Nautilus

 

[Neil_Ireland]

Thanks Nautilus....

What sort of price was everything?

Neil.

 

[Nautilus]

About 127 EUR for a full set (2 examples of each part) with all taxes included, at parts shop. Can be found for a bit below 100 EUR if you dig deeply around all parts sites and shops around

~Nautilus

 

[Nautilus]

Conclusion after driving:

- slightly more accurate steering;
- a very slight vibration at idle, almost unnoticeable
- less steering wheel vibration, close to zero
- no front end lift under hard acceleration (due to both Powerflex dogbone and bushings)
- it did not influence, or did it very little, the handling, it's a slight understeer at the beginning or the turn-in, neutral handling at middle and a slight hint of oversteer upon exit
- wheel spin is equal on both front wheels, no wheel hop, no torque steer

~Nautilus

 

[Willie]

Yup it's on my mod list, will be interesting to see what state the polyflex ones are in when removed

 

[Nautilus]

Conclusions after a 300km trip with a lot of twisty mountain roads:

- handling is little influenced, but it does matter. Understeer and oversteer are reduced to a very vague hint, most of the curves' length is driven like on rails;
- slight vibration at idle but can't be noticed in normal driving, only if one pays close attention.

For it's cost, it is a most welcome mod

~Nautilus

 

[jonjay]

Have you had your other bushes changed or just the subframe ones? I am getting wishbone bushes changed for front and rear so trying tofigure out whether to get these changed aswell...

 

[Willie]

These are the wish bone rear bushes
These are the bushes where the subframe and thew wish bones meet at the rear mounting point. The fronts are not ment to be worth the hastle

 

[Nautilus]

Only subframe. Lower control arm (LCA or wishbone) rear bushings are available in two types as well, drilled or solid, while LCA front bushings (cylindrical) are the same type throughout the VAG range and should not be replaced. My LCA rear bushings are the drilled type therefore softer

~Nautilus

 

[Willie]

If you had the engine mounts and/or the dog bone mount you would feel a greater effect to this mod