I have the Powerflex dogbone mount and it could be felt to greater effect than subframe bushings from the moment it was fitted months ago
~Nautilus
-
Guest, 🎅🎄Looking for a stocking filler idea? Why not treat yourself or a loved one to our high quality CUPRA or SEAT valve caps. Order now from the merchandise store
I have the Powerflex dogbone mount and it could be felt to greater effect than subframe bushings from the moment it was fitted months ago
~Nautilus
Next step: solid rear LCA bushings 
a bit of hassle since they have to be pressed in
Foam filling the subframe and LCAs is still an option. There are also TT lower control arms available, which are cast solid, but much heavier, so they are not an option.
The guys with the 300ZX said ordinary hardware store canned foam should not be used because it doesn't dry in closed spaces. They got it wrong. I've filled in the past on my '66 VW Bug the rear cabin panels (for thermal insulation, not stiffening) with the same hardware store foam and it did dry. The true reason for which it can't be used is the fact it ages and becomes brittle like rotten wood and useless in 1-2 years if exposed to the elements, and exposed will it be if used in the hollow subframe.
~Nautilus
a bit of hassle since they have to be pressed inFoam filling the subframe and LCAs is still an option. There are also TT lower control arms available, which are cast solid, but much heavier, so they are not an option.
The guys with the 300ZX said ordinary hardware store canned foam should not be used because it doesn't dry in closed spaces. They got it wrong. I've filled in the past on my '66 VW Bug the rear cabin panels (for thermal insulation, not stiffening) with the same hardware store foam and it did dry. The true reason for which it can't be used is the fact it ages and becomes brittle like rotten wood and useless in 1-2 years if exposed to the elements, and exposed will it be if used in the hollow subframe.
~Nautilus
Have you had a look at the posts on VW Vortex about the sub frame stiffening with webs.
I'm going to be trying this perhaps next year with tie rods fitted between the LCA bush point and the tapped holes in the sub frame.
I know this is how the thread started but have you discounted trying this?
I'm going to be trying this perhaps next year with tie rods fitted between the LCA bush point and the tapped holes in the sub frame.
I know this is how the thread started but have you discounted trying this?
Welding on a piece of metal exposed to weather is a sure recipe to get rust from the next year maybe I will fit 2 tie rods fixed by bolts also in the rear of the subframe
~Nautilus
maybe I will fit 2 tie rods fixed by bolts also in the rear of the subframe~Nautilus
After some driving on bad roads, the car feels much stiffer while hitting bumps (unfortunately for the poor passengers ) Large bumps and potholes are taken with few if any nuisances, but kerbs, tram lines and other small and hard bumps jerk the car like almost ready to break it in half
Lower control arms are hollow, like all Leon models. They can be filled with foam via the holes built into them with no problems
~Nautilus
) Large bumps and potholes are taken with few if any nuisances, but kerbs, tram lines and other small and hard bumps jerk the car like almost ready to break it in halfLower control arms are hollow, like all Leon models. They can be filled with foam via the holes built into them with no problems
~Nautilus
I changed my turret top mounts last weekend front and back.
This has ade a huge difference in the way it handles bumps in the road.
Cheap and quite easy to do but you do need two people to make it a bit easier
This has ade a huge difference in the way it handles bumps in the road.
Cheap and quite easy to do but you do need two people to make it a bit easier
I changed my wishbone bushes and rear beam bushes. I must admit I noticed the same effect that Nautilus did. There is no vibration through the car but you get a lot more feedback from the road. Bumps can be felt a little bit more however no passengers have complained yet. The benifits vastly outweigh the extra sporty feel to the car. Feels glued to the road.
Had not changed yet the LCA bushings, I was a bit scared by ride quality on bumps and I expected the ride to become even more bumpy after changing drilled bushings for heavy duty ones. Still an option, maybe they will be changed by the end of this month
However, had the opportunity to test the handling at the limit, at high speed on a descending ramp in a spiral (I know, I'm nuts ) and it still understeers, although it's controllable - lift-off or braking turn into instant oversteer
~Nautilus
However, had the opportunity to test the handling at the limit, at high speed on a descending ramp in a spiral (I know, I'm nuts
) and it still understeers, although it's controllable - lift-off or braking turn into instant oversteer~Nautilus
Ordered 2 LCA bushings today
Golf/Leon have the same code for LCA bushings (drilled), it's 1J0 407 181
TT/Cupra R have the same code for the LCA bushings (solid), it's 8N0 407 181B
There are 4 types of solid LCA bushings which fit the 8N0 407 181B code: Meyle, Boge, Lemförder and Audi-branded.
According to VWVortex, Meyle bushings are slightly softer and smoother than Boge (but still solid therefore an improvement).
The shop could not bring Boge or Lemförder parts, for some reason. Ordered the Meyle bushings (Audi-branded ones, which people claim they are rebranded Boge, were 3 times the price!!!)
Should fit them in a week. Does the removal of LCAs and fitting of the bushings warrant a re-alignment?
~Nautilus
PS tried the same downward spiral ramp today, it could be descended in good conditions up to 50-55km/h, above that it understeers (but a slight blip of the brake places the car back on track)
Golf/Leon have the same code for LCA bushings (drilled), it's 1J0 407 181
TT/Cupra R have the same code for the LCA bushings (solid), it's 8N0 407 181B
There are 4 types of solid LCA bushings which fit the 8N0 407 181B code: Meyle, Boge, Lemförder and Audi-branded.
According to VWVortex, Meyle bushings are slightly softer and smoother than Boge (but still solid therefore an improvement).
The shop could not bring Boge or Lemförder parts, for some reason. Ordered the Meyle bushings (Audi-branded ones, which people claim they are rebranded Boge, were 3 times the price!!!)
Should fit them in a week. Does the removal of LCAs and fitting of the bushings warrant a re-alignment?
~Nautilus
PS tried the same downward spiral ramp today, it could be descended in good conditions up to 50-55km/h, above that it understeers (but a slight blip of the brake places the car back on track)
Driving report after change of LCA bushings:
- original bushings were badly cracked (one of them had even a 1cm crack) and so soft that I could twist them by hand; new solid bushings were hard as concrete by comparison;
- to avoid alignment, the bolts have been torqued very carefully and fitted on the same marks which they left when unscrewed. However, with the new bushings, negative camber is much reduced, front wheel sits visibly more upright;
- steering is much more accurate and seems 'lighter';
- wheel hop on small bumps disappeared;
- much smoother ride on cobblestone, almost Mercedes-Benz-like;
- right-left alignment has not changed, cars runs 100% straight even if I leave the steering wheel free;
- driving in curves seems almost as before, slight understeer at turn-in, but the hint of oversteer at exit seems to have disappeared.
Have not yet driven on an extremely twisty road (such as descending spiral into a tunnel ).
Most possibly in the near future I will adjust front negative camber at some workshop with appropriate tools for the maximum amount allowed by factory, after some days of driving to break-in the bushing setup
I do not believe that understeer can be eliminated unless a strong rear anti-roll bar is fitted, to turn the semi-rigid axle into a rigid one. The torsion of the rear axle and its movement on the compliant factory bushings allow up to 1 degree of passive rear steering, which means the rear axle will respond to being pushed by lateral forces and hold grip... the front will always give up first. However I can strive for handling as close to neutral as possible
Regards,
~Nautilus
PS examined the LCAs while off the car and foam-filling will bring no improvement. The box-like construction from 2mm thick pressed steel is hard
- original bushings were badly cracked (one of them had even a 1cm crack) and so soft that I could twist them by hand; new solid bushings were hard as concrete by comparison;
- to avoid alignment, the bolts have been torqued very carefully and fitted on the same marks which they left when unscrewed. However, with the new bushings, negative camber is much reduced, front wheel sits visibly more upright;
- steering is much more accurate and seems 'lighter';
- wheel hop on small bumps disappeared;
- much smoother ride on cobblestone, almost Mercedes-Benz-like;
- right-left alignment has not changed, cars runs 100% straight even if I leave the steering wheel free;
- driving in curves seems almost as before, slight understeer at turn-in, but the hint of oversteer at exit seems to have disappeared.
Have not yet driven on an extremely twisty road (such as descending spiral into a tunnel
). Most possibly in the near future I will adjust front negative camber at some workshop with appropriate tools for the maximum amount allowed by factory, after some days of driving to break-in the bushing setup
I do not believe that understeer can be eliminated unless a strong rear anti-roll bar is fitted, to turn the semi-rigid axle into a rigid one. The torsion of the rear axle and its movement on the compliant factory bushings allow up to 1 degree of passive rear steering, which means the rear axle will respond to being pushed by lateral forces and hold grip... the front will always give up first. However I can strive for handling as close to neutral as possible
Regards,
~Nautilus
PS examined the LCAs while off the car and foam-filling will bring no improvement. The box-like construction from 2mm thick pressed steel is hard
Last edited:
Cheers for the updates
I'm going to be fitting the TT roadster rear LCA bushes, new turret top mounts bushes and bearings, new LCA front bushes, uprated engine mount and R32 23mm front ARB. I hope to notice a big difference in this
I'm going to be fitting the TT roadster rear LCA bushes, new turret top mounts bushes and bearings, new LCA front bushes, uprated engine mount and R32 23mm front ARB. I hope to notice a big difference in this
This sounds great. I'm looking forward to your review of this.Cheers for the updates
I'm going to be fitting the TT roadster rear LCA bushes, new turret top mounts bushes and bearings, new LCA front bushes, uprated engine mount and R32 23mm front ARB. I hope to notice a big difference in this
Leons Cupra/FR already have a 23mm front anti-roll bar so you will gain nothing. Why not a H&R anti-roll bar?...
BTW examined my front LCA bushings (cylindrical) and they did not show cracks or signs of wear (48,700 kms or 30,267 miles driven by now). Some people say they will even outlast the car
~Nautilus
BTW examined my front LCA bushings (cylindrical) and they did not show cracks or signs of wear (48,700 kms or 30,267 miles driven by now). Some people say they will even outlast the car
~Nautilus
Aligned today at a workshop, set the toe-out to factory spec. The mechanic claimed he couldn't adjust caster or camber, which they were both in factory spec (camber angle about -0deg35min, caster angle about +7deg50min). Handling at city speeds is practically neutral
~Nautilus
~Nautilus
As I was fumbling and tinkering around to improve even more the handling of my Leon, found these wheel spacers on the Forge website:
Forge Precision 11mm Wheel Spacers
As we know, a positive difference between front and rear track helps reducing understeer even further in a FWD car. Leon MK1 on factory sports suspension and stock 17" FR wheels has a 20mm difference - track is 1506mm front and 1486mm rear, measured by myself (it may be also 1511/1491mm if different wheels are used, the important fact to be reckoned with is 20mm difference to be kept). However, other FWD cars with a reputation for handling had larger front tracks compared to rear - by 40mm in VW Corrado, over 100mm in some Citroens
Would a 41mm (20mm + 1 spacer/wheel) larger track front compared to rear help an even tighter handling in sharp turns? Did other members who used wheel spacers notice?
Does a larger front track influence braking in a nose-heavy car like the Leon, where front brakes provide most stopping power?
How are wheel spacers fitted? Do they need to be held by bolts from the spindle, or just placed between spindle/brake disc and wheel and held by wheel studs?
Thank you,
~Nautilus
Forge Precision 11mm Wheel Spacers
As we know, a positive difference between front and rear track helps reducing understeer even further in a FWD car. Leon MK1 on factory sports suspension and stock 17" FR wheels has a 20mm difference - track is 1506mm front and 1486mm rear, measured by myself (it may be also 1511/1491mm if different wheels are used, the important fact to be reckoned with is 20mm difference to be kept). However, other FWD cars with a reputation for handling had larger front tracks compared to rear - by 40mm in VW Corrado, over 100mm in some Citroens
Would a 41mm (20mm + 1 spacer/wheel) larger track front compared to rear help an even tighter handling in sharp turns? Did other members who used wheel spacers notice?
Does a larger front track influence braking in a nose-heavy car like the Leon, where front brakes provide most stopping power?
How are wheel spacers fitted? Do they need to be held by bolts from the spindle, or just placed between spindle/brake disc and wheel and held by wheel studs?
Thank you,
~Nautilus
Last edited:
To put my two penneth in here and ask a question, do subframe bushings "go" like bottom arm bushes?
Recently had both bottom arms changed as they were errmm.....well used!! What symptoms would i get from a worn/knackered subframe bush?
To carry this on, are these bushings pressed in or bolted in?
Cheers
Jimski
Recently had both bottom arms changed as they were errmm.....well used!! What symptoms would i get from a worn/knackered subframe bush?
To carry this on, are these bushings pressed in or bolted in?
Cheers
Jimski
Similar threads
