Just forget torque at all... it just confuses things. Power is what matters and it’s rpm related hence the overall drive ratio being different...the diesel doesn’t rev as high.In particular, this is what happens when people fixate on torque ..... AT THE ENGINE.
As previously stated, both an FR184 and a Cupra have 280 lbf.ft (380 Nm) torque.
However, an FR184 has an overall gear ratio of 2.074 while its 2.800 in a Cupra (both DSG). This means that torque at the wheel, which is what counts for acceleration, is 788 Nm in the FR184 but 1064 Nm in the Cupra. No contest.
Just about every magazine I've ever read ignores this fact and it irritates the hell out of me.
New 290 (anyone disappointed)
- Thread starter Peller
- Start date
I have come from the 2014 280sc. I owned the autocar test car KU14 WWA up until November last year where unfortunately it was rear ended in a motorway accident and consequently written off. I loved that car. It only had 23000 miles on it and although I didn't drive it a lot as I had a company van it always put a smile on my face when I did. When we were looking to replace my other half wanted a dsg car. We looked at Golf R, Audi s3 and a 68 plate Cupra 300. Both of us preferred the way the cupra drove it felt more involved and although off the line the other 2 were quicker to 60 the cupra seem to come alive from 60 and pulled up to silly speed. The Cupra 300 was sold before the insurance paid out but the dealer offered us a 290 lux with pan roof and driver safety pack at a good price so we went for it without seeing it. Its only got around 150 miles on it at the mo but it seems to pull well even though im short shifting at 4k it seems like its no slower. Build quality seems very good at the moment as the 280 did develop a dash rattle that seemed the norm but time will tell. The only thing I miss is the interior detail. No cupra logo on the steering wheel or next to the DSG box. I know its only a minor niggle but its on the 300 and the cupra r and it just seemed to me that this is the last leon incarnation of the cupra so we will just leave it. Im currently trying to organise some to be made as I feel the car deserves a little extra interior wise but at the moment that's my only gripe.
No Cupra Logo next to the DSG Shifter? Thought that was only on the 4drive?
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I thought I'd plot a Cupra 290 power curve, vs a 184 FR/ Golf GTD vs a remapped 184. It's interesting reading...
Ignoring engine torque curves, in theory and in practice everything you need to know about engine performance is shown on the power curve, and you don’t need to worry about rpm ranges and gear ratios. In the example above the two standard engines provide very similar performance if the driver is lazy with the gearbox; notice how the low-down power is roughly the same on both standard engines, but from mid-range up to the rev limit the petrol engine has a clear power advantage; as long as the driver keeps the petrol engine in that upper rev range he will be able to out-accelerate the diesel-engined car. The remapped diesel has the advantage over the petrol from very low down to the mid point, but after that...it's petrol for the win!
Ignoring engine torque curves, in theory and in practice everything you need to know about engine performance is shown on the power curve, and you don’t need to worry about rpm ranges and gear ratios. In the example above the two standard engines provide very similar performance if the driver is lazy with the gearbox; notice how the low-down power is roughly the same on both standard engines, but from mid-range up to the rev limit the petrol engine has a clear power advantage; as long as the driver keeps the petrol engine in that upper rev range he will be able to out-accelerate the diesel-engined car. The remapped diesel has the advantage over the petrol from very low down to the mid point, but after that...it's petrol for the win!
Also a bit misleading as you've plotted each to their own rev limit where in reality the diesel tops out a good 1.5k rpm lower than the petrol.
I was coming from a 280 manual.
So in my case yes the 7 Spd DSG box feels quicker. We've also concluded that the torque has increased from what I was used to in the 280 as well.
Although I don't know too much about the alterations to the gear ratios for MY19 the 7th gear will just be an over drive gear.
I wouldn't imagine it would feel noticeably different to the 6spd 300, but I haven't driven them back to back.
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I normalised the scale so it’s effectively 100% along the x axis as both engines will be revving out. This then takes into account the different max rpms.
Original poster here that who started all this! I may have worded it wrong so hence my hasty editing.
The Cupra is a hugely capable car but what I was meaning to say that in every day driving I think the 181hp diesel engine is just as fast when driving normally, especially when overtaking.
Oh Yes, the Cupra will nail it heads over tails but you have to rev the Cupra to get there but in standard driving conditions an FR/GTD is much the same without the high rev effort (Cupra will be in triple figure speeds)
I've had mental cars in the past, the AMG45 included (never recommend)
My thoughts are that the new 290 is a bloody fast car but there is not much SEAT character left. No loud exhaust, DSG bangs and personally I think the suspension set up is too soft!
The better half has an S5 for her work car (my choice) lol. I'm still dissapointed in it.
Maybe I'm expecting to much in my old age, I'm now in my 40's now and my first fast car was an Astra GTE. I wish I kept it now! Worth a few bob!
Cheers guys!
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The Cupra is a hugely capable car but what I was meaning to say that in every day driving I think the 181hp diesel engine is just as fast when driving normally, especially when overtaking.
Oh Yes, the Cupra will nail it heads over tails but you have to rev the Cupra to get there but in standard driving conditions an FR/GTD is much the same without the high rev effort (Cupra will be in triple figure speeds)
I've had mental cars in the past, the AMG45 included (never recommend)
My thoughts are that the new 290 is a bloody fast car but there is not much SEAT character left. No loud exhaust, DSG bangs and personally I think the suspension set up is too soft!
The better half has an S5 for her work car (my choice) lol. I'm still dissapointed in it.
Maybe I'm expecting to much in my old age, I'm now in my 40's now and my first fast car was an Astra GTE. I wish I kept it now! Worth a few bob!
Cheers guys!
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Looking back on my old SC280 manual it does seem like it's pulls harder. Especially In 3rd gear
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S5 for a work car... I need a new job 
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Also, I’m no engineer but there are obviously people on this thread that understand the gearing ratios much better than me.
I thought the 7speed DSG had the same ratios as the 6speed and that the 7th gear was just a cruising gear?
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I thought the 7speed DSG had the same ratios as the 6speed and that the 7th gear was just a cruising gear?
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Yeah I thought they were near enough the same. Clearly wasn’t paying attention in class haha
I had the stock Conti 5's on the 280 and although I faced traction control issues I never really found them a show stopper.
I only ever replaced tyres one at a time and that was as result of damage not low tread. So replaced like for like.
On the 2019 290 the stock Conti's feel absolutely useless in comparison.
The conditions have been awful since I picked it up and this is an auto. So i may still need to modulate my throttle better. Normal driving is obviously fine, but any else before reaching 30mph seems disappointing right now.
Not sure I can justify spending the ££ replacing the front two just yet. I expect I'll still be disappointed as the conditions will be playing a major factor.
My only other experience with the DSG has been with the equivalent 4x drive VAGs(so I miss managed my expectations)
Now DSG has become a must have, I think 4x drive will be also.
Still enjoying the looks, Tech and character of this car though. The induction and exhaust sounds make up for my lack of ability to get traction at low speeds at the moment.
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I only ever replaced tyres one at a time and that was as result of damage not low tread. So replaced like for like.
On the 2019 290 the stock Conti's feel absolutely useless in comparison.
The conditions have been awful since I picked it up and this is an auto. So i may still need to modulate my throttle better. Normal driving is obviously fine, but any else before reaching 30mph seems disappointing right now.
Not sure I can justify spending the ££ replacing the front two just yet. I expect I'll still be disappointed as the conditions will be playing a major factor.
My only other experience with the DSG has been with the equivalent 4x drive VAGs(so I miss managed my expectations)
Now DSG has become a must have, I think 4x drive will be also.
Still enjoying the looks, Tech and character of this car though. The induction and exhaust sounds make up for my lack of ability to get traction at low speeds at the moment.
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Posted this on another thread
UPDATE to put all the info in one place
Thanks to R@Doo https://forums.seatcupra.net/index....upra-how-is-the-dsg7-box.447495/#post-4811243
Based on the info available at seat.com about DQ381and info found in an older Leon brochure about DQ250 ratios, I put together the following table:
It shows that gears I-III are very close (with DQ381 being just a little bit shorter) and gears IV-VI are identical. I was quite surprised by that, I was expecting DQ381 to be shorter for gears I-VI, with VII being a little above VI from DQ250...
The speed for 7th gear 1000rpm is 55.9/1.609=34.7 mph, which is in line with the value given two posts above.
That is the only draw back of the Mk3 Cupra trying to get power down early but once up and running it's fine , its disappointing seat didn't try harder with this issue and owners having to resort to £600 tyres and inserts to help eliminate the problem as wheel hop is ridiculous , if they had of just put a alloy subframe in and better bushes they'd have been perfect , still a great car but far from flawless.
This only makes sense if the redline is at the same speed. If one redlines at 30 and another at 40 then the graph tells nothing about how fast the cars are each to each. For all we know one could be still in same gear while other had to up two, thus dropping power with each shift.
Our Arona has the same peak torque as our GT86 had, but the 86 would leave it in a cloud of dust. Because the 86 spins to 7000 to make 200hp, while the Arona torque peak is all over at 4000 and makes 115hp. Power is a function of torque and rpm. You can't quote torque figures/performance without referring to peak power.
Another example is Teslas, blindingly quick to around 220 k's, then electric motor torque characteristics (peak at zero revs) cause power/top speed to flatten out giving a fairly average top speed compared to similar IC engines.
Another example is Teslas, blindingly quick to around 220 k's, then electric motor torque characteristics (peak at zero revs) cause power/top speed to flatten out giving a fairly average top speed compared to similar IC engines.
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