Petrol thirsty or faulty engine 1.4 (older gen)

mac132

Active Member
Jun 10, 2018
19
1
Purchased a seat ibiza mk5 2009 1.4 petrol , I've read a mixture of opinions but excessive fuel consumption seems to be a common issue with these older generation engines, got to a point where I can't establish whether there is a serious issue that is causing this I am not aware of, maybe faulty thermostat? or these engines just drink petrol like there is no tomorrow and this is perfectly normal.

I need to drive like a saint accelerate very gently on highest gears possible where possible and when possible, as soon as I hit 30mph i'll need to change 4th or 5th to get a 30-40MPG.
Seems my ibiza hates 2nd and 3rd gear, driving 20mph in 2nd or 3rd gives me approx 15-20MPG
I am relying on the on board computer for this.


I need some opinions from people that owned a 1.4 VW or seat (older gen engine) i am starting to think these engines just drink petrol, mainly on shorter trips.
 

camelspyyder

2 SEAT-er
Jun 26, 2014
1,272
160
My 1.4/85ps 16V (same engine) does mid 40's all the time driven gently.

Don't ever look at the live consumption, especially in the intermediate gears - it's completely irrelevant.

On my last 1.2 TSI it showed only 7 mpg (seven) when accelerating in 2nd away from a junction up a slight rise on the way to work.

The car was actually averaging about 49 mpg on that commute.

The average mpg is the only useful indicator (and most of my VAG dashbords have been 6% or more optimistic).
 

camelspyyder

2 SEAT-er
Jun 26, 2014
1,272
160
The only way to get facts on your mpg is brim it, drive it most of a tank, brim it again and do the maths. (miles / litres) x 4.546.

This caught me out once when I ran out of fuel between the 2nd and 3rd fill-ups mind you, having failed to work out a baseline for the reserve light range.
 

mac132

Active Member
Jun 10, 2018
19
1
My 1.4/85ps 16V (same engine) does mid 40's all the time driven gently.

Don't ever look at the live consumption, especially in the intermediate gears - it's completely irrelevant.

On my last 1.2 TSI it showed only 7 mpg (seven) when accelerating in 2nd away from a junction up a slight rise on the way to work.

The car was actually averaging about 49 mpg on that commute.

The average mpg is the only useful indicator (and most of my VAG dashbords have been 6% or more optimistic).

Thanks for your response, I've recently filled the tank all the way to work out MPG more accurately, full tank showed 400 miles. I've done a 65 mile trip mainly on motorway and had an avg of 46.6MPG for that distance. I drove back to the petrol station and filled the tank all the way up again, 5.91L was how much the car used .(about £7.25 ) I was made up with that, also my Miles went up to 430.

What worries me are those shorter trips around town and to work ( I have no traffic at all due to my hours of work and its mostly dual carriageway approx 10 miles one way) I've worked out that 100 miles cost me £25. For comparison my 1.2 clio 16v 2001 sport would cover these trips (town & work) and I could get about 150-200 miles for £25.
There is quite of big difference considering similar engine size and style of drive
 

mac132

Active Member
Jun 10, 2018
19
1
The only way to get facts on your mpg is brim it, drive it most of a tank, brim it again and do the maths. (miles / litres) x 4.546.

This caught me out once when I ran out of fuel between the 2nd and 3rd fill-ups mind you, having failed to work out a baseline for the reserve light range.
Out of curiosity, how fast are those miles dropping from the onboard computer, it seems i've lost 15 miles by travelling a mile to a store (no traffic) . Does that seem about right? . I rarely see it go up, just decreases.
 

camelspyyder

2 SEAT-er
Jun 26, 2014
1,272
160
It's a guess based on your recent mpg. If you do a cold start run to the corner shop the mpg in reality is about 20. The computer recalculates its range estimate based on that. If you chug along A roads at 40-50 in top gear you should see the range go up.

Meaningless numbers all on that display. I just have the live MPH on there instead.
 

RUM4MO

Active Member
Jun 4, 2008
6,601
557
South Scotland
You really do need to make use of the advice that you have been given already, ie fill the tank up to the first click stop and rest the trip recorder, use the car as you would normally do, then when either you get the "refuel now" alert or very close to that, refuel again to the first click stop, then note the litres used, convert to UK gallons by multiply by 0.22, then divide the trip mileage by that to give you your MPG, once you have done this you should revert to just using the fuel computer's indicated average MPG for the longer term, remember the fuel computer will have 2 memories, one resets after maybe 2 hours, the other continues to average until you reset it, though make sure that you are resetting all the longer term memory data. I always accept the long term MPG values and yes they might be out by 10% but I can live with that, I think that there is a correction/calibration factory that you can alter using VCDS etc if you want to improve accuracy, but most people accept that what is given is a reasonably true figure.
 

Superman001

Active Member
Jan 14, 2017
110
15
Paisley
The only way to get facts on your mpg is brim it, drive it most of a tank, brim it again and do the maths. (miles / litres) x 4.546.

This caught me out once when I ran out of fuel between the 2nd and 3rd fill-ups mind you, having failed to work out a baseline for the reserve light range.

That's how I manually calculate mine. Total litres divided by 4.546 them divide the miles I've done by the answer. Managed 37.77 out of my 2016 Cupra without trying.

James
 

mac132

Active Member
Jun 10, 2018
19
1
You really do need to make use of the advice that you have been given already, ie fill the tank up to the first click stop and rest the trip recorder, use the car as you would normally do, then when either you get the "refuel now" alert or very close to that, refuel again to the first click stop, then note the litres used, convert to UK gallons by multiply by 0.22, then divide the trip mileage by that to give you your MPG, once you have done this you should revert to just using the fuel computer's indicated average MPG for the longer term, remember the fuel computer will have 2 memories, one resets after maybe 2 hours, the other continues to average until you reset it, though make sure that you are resetting all the longer term memory data. I always accept the long term MPG values and yes they might be out by 10% but I can live with that, I think that there is a correction/calibration factory that you can alter using VCDS etc if you want to improve accuracy, but most people accept that what is given is a reasonably true figure.

I've already calculated the MPG manually to see how much petrol is actually being used and if I can rely on avg. MPG shown on dash. The on board computer is fairly accurate, like you said might be 5-10% off which is fine with me. Having established the on board computer is accurate I now question high fuel consumption around town. I feel 20-25MPG around town is very low for these engines while driving like a saint on warm engine without any traffic.
I appreciate all your replies and comments.
 
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camelspyyder

2 SEAT-er
Jun 26, 2014
1,272
160
How do you know it does 20mpg around town? As mentioned before, the real time mpg display is utter bollox, especially meaningless in the lower gears. Even my missus who has some kind of mental block against ever being in the correct gear gets 44mpg average from a Toca.
 

mac132

Active Member
Jun 10, 2018
19
1
How do you know it does 20mpg around town? As mentioned before, the real time mpg display is utter bollox, especially meaningless in the lower gears. Even my missus who has some kind of mental block against ever being in the correct gear gets 44mpg average from a Toca.

Filled the tank to max
Drove it around town like usually do
Refill to max again. ( Litres / £ per miles done)
Work out MPG.
compare if mpg worked out manually is accurate to the avg on display
upload_2018-6-16_16-24-46.png


I am aware mpg display can be inaccurate.
 
Last edited:

camelspyyder

2 SEAT-er
Jun 26, 2014
1,272
160
Less than a gallon used? that's so inaccurate it's barely any better than the real-time indication. Even a full tank brim to brim isn't that meaningful if other factors are influencing results. If you always do short journeys it will never warm up properly and run too rich- coking it up. My last TSi took 3 miles to warm the water up and more like 6 to warm the oil.

I once had a low mileage car that ran really badly and guzzled fuel precisely because it had previously done 2 miles a day for 5 years. After 6 months of my commuting long distance it's average mpg rose from 28 to 38 as the engine got cleaned out.

Basic stuff. When was the last air filter change? Have you pulled and checked the plugs condition? Any smoke or water from the exhaust?
 
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camelspyyder

2 SEAT-er
Jun 26, 2014
1,272
160
For what it's worth, I love the Ibiza TOCA handling and ride, but the gutless 1.4 engine is a bit of a dog. I wish we'd chucked an extra grand in and got a 1.2TSI instead; I would recommend that engine to anybody. It's way better than the 1.0 and light years ahead of the old 16v we're talking about here.
 

dm222

Active Member
Dec 7, 2013
1,313
25
I would not change my 1.4 16V for the TSI...

Ok, it is thirsty but at 145.000kms, 0€ spent on the engine besides fuel and regular maintenance
 

mac132

Active Member
Jun 10, 2018
19
1
Less than a gallon used? that's so inaccurate it's barely any better than the real-time indication. Even a full tank brim to brim isn't that meaningful if other factors are influencing results. If you always do short journeys it will never warm up properly and run too rich- coking it up. My last TSi took 3 miles to warm the water up and more like 6 to warm the oil.

I once had a low mileage car that ran really badly and guzzled fuel precisely because it had previously done 2 miles a day for 5 years. After 6 months of my commuting long distance it's average mpg rose from 28 to 38 as the engine got cleaned out.

Basic stuff. When was the last air filter change? Have you pulled and checked the plugs condition? Any smoke or water from the exhaust?
It was serviced by the dealer I purchased it from recently (air filter , spark plugs , fuel filter) assuming they were replaced. I've added redex to see if that makes a difference, I feel i covered the basics. No smoke but there was quite a bit of water coming out the exhaust when first started i remember, and still does when first started in the morning.
 

camelspyyder

2 SEAT-er
Jun 26, 2014
1,272
160
condensation? or water dripping from the tailpipe?

I had a petrol that was rough running at start with that sympton - water dripping from the exhaust. It ran cleanly after a minute or so (when slightly warm) but had already suffered a hairline head gasket failure which got a lot worse 3 months later.

I have also found a dragging brake to ruin the mpg in the past on another car. Does the car decelerate unduly when releasing the throttle? Try freewheeling and see how quick the speed scrubs of, or jack it up and see if the wheels spin freely.
 

mac132

Active Member
Jun 10, 2018
19
1
condensation? or water dripping from the tailpipe?

I had a petrol that was rough running at start with that sympton - water dripping from the exhaust. It ran cleanly after a minute or so (when slightly warm) but had already suffered a hairline head gasket failure which got a lot worse 3 months later.

I have also found a dragging brake to ruin the mpg in the past on another car. Does the car decelerate unduly when releasing the throttle? Try freewheeling and see how quick the speed scrubs of, or jack it up and see if the wheels spin freely.

I think its just condensation, it stopped once I had the car running for some time, It recently had brake discs and pads changed but worth a try, i'll jack it up and see.
 

RUM4MO

Active Member
Jun 4, 2008
6,601
557
South Scotland
I'm not convinced that you have been taking in what has been suggested here, you will never ever get typical MPG figures by just filling the car up and then driving around town for 20 miles or so, you must see happens over the time it takes to use a full tank of fuel. Once you have done that come back and tell us what MPG you have worked it out to be. You simply can not speed up working out "typical use" MPG.
 

dm222

Active Member
Dec 7, 2013
1,313
25
It was serviced by the dealer I purchased it from recently (air filter , spark plugs , fuel filter) assuming they were replaced. I've added redex to see if that makes a difference, I feel i covered the basics. No smoke but there was quite a bit of water coming out the exhaust when first started i remember, and still does when first started in the morning.

mine does that too.
 
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