Somethings not right, Engine Torque Monitor 2:Control Limit Exceeded!

[rsmith]

Hello all,

I had some serious issues with my LCR over the weekend on a long journey.When i set off i knew something didn't feel right, when i put my foot down it just didn't feel right, sort of held back a bit.

So anyway, while cruising on the motorway at 120kph in 6th gear with low boost/load(about 3.3k rpm) on the engine i suddenly lost all power, the engine keep running but pressing the accelerator had no effect and the EPC light was on the dash.I quickly restarted the engine while rolling and everything was back to normal for another 20miles.
Then again it happened again! restarted the engine fixed the problem.

I logged the below error on the ECU imeddiately after the problem occured.

17743 - Engine Torque Monitor 2:
Control Limit Exceeded : P1335
00035 35-10 - - Sporadic



This has me worried as the car is now unreliable for me know, i had a 220 mile journey last night, part motorway/part main roads and i was afraid to overtake anything(like micra's doing 60kph) in case i lost power and was caught on the wrong side of the road.


I when out this morning and everything looks good, the only think i noticed was a 1.8bar boost spike on my boost gauge.!


Can anyone shed any light or recommend things to check.

P.S mods are listed in my sig.And i will throw up some power run logs shortly.

 

[JamJay]

Well for some reason, it seems that your ECU is detecting a large surge of torque at some point in the rev range. The code advises you to check a few things:

17743 Engine torque monitoring control limit exceeded
- Check hose setup; MAF; Intake Air Temp sensor; Engine Coolant Temp Sensor


It could be down to an air-mass over read which would indicate a dead MAF sensor or perhaps you have a boost leak somewhere in your system. Look thoroughly over all of your hoses and inspect your MAF. Perhaps clear the code and run the car with the MAF sensor disconnected and see if it comes back but i'm not sure if this will help at all.

IIRC, I think you're running a rather aggressive map? I think we spoke about this before as you were concerned about your rods bending. Which brand is it? You may even need to get the map tweaked to suit your cars current spec or reigned in a little.

 

[JamJay]

See these links, they kind of clarify what I've said above but with a little more detail & discussion

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46049&highlight=17743&page=2

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=359613

http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/127835/860801.aspx

It's common across the whole range of 1.8T's it seems, even spreading over some of the MKV GTi's too once they've had GIAC remaps. One common thing seems to be that this code gets thrown up under minimal load.

Do you have an FMIC yet? Perhaps it's time for a Stage 2 custom map.

 

[rsmith]

See these links, they kind of clarify what I've said above but with a little more detail & discussion

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46049&highlight=17743&page=2

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=359613

http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/127835/860801.aspx

It's common across the whole range of 1.8T's it seems, even spreading over some of the MKV GTi's too once they've had GIAC remaps. One common thing seems to be that this code gets thrown up under minimal load.

Do you have an FMIC yet? Perhaps it's time for a Stage 2 custom map.

Hi,
Yes, i have a FMIC, i am all geared up for a stage 2 remap, i just haven't had time/money to get to it, i am wondering is this the problem, where as my map is not longer suited to the hardware on the car.!

Also if it makes sense, my boost levels seem to be increasing lately, i have 3 different boost gauges so i no there working well.


Logs just done, boost of off the scale from 3.2k to 3.8k rpm, thats when i read the 1.8bar spike

	Group A:	'115			
		RPM	Load	Pressure	Pressure
	TSTAMP	RPM	%	mbar	mbar
	22.15	2200	27.1	2200	1040
	22.53	1520	84.2	1840	1100
	22.93	1600	87.2	1840	1150
	23.34	1720	92.5	1930	1200
	23.75	1840	96.2	2010	1240
	24.16	2000	103.8	2110	1300
	24.56	2120	113.5	2210	1390
	24.97	2280	121.8	2210	1520
	25.37	2480	133.8	2250	1670
	25.76	2680	153.4	2300	1900
	26.19	2920	180.5	2370	2260
	26.57	3200	191.7	2400	2540
	26.97	3480	191.7	2410	2540
	27.37	3800	191.7	2420	2540
	27.77	4040	191.7	2430	2410
	28.17	4320	191.7	2410	2460
	28.57	4600	191.7	2400	2370
	28.97	4840	191	2370	2350
	29.37	5080	191.7	2350	2310
	29.8	5280	186.5	2340	2280
	30.18	5520	186.5	2340	2230
	30.59	5720	180.5	2290	2200
	30.99	5880	164.7	2220	2220
	31.41	6120	180.5	2150	2080
	31.79	6240	178.2	2120	2070
	32.21	6400	161.7	2060	2120
	32.62	6400	46.6	1020	2540
	33	5800	13.5	1020	1370

Group A:	'118				Group B:	'032	
	RPM	Temperature	Load	Pressure		Lambda	Lambda
TSTAMP	RPM	°C	%	mbar	TSTAMP	%	%
0	760	39	0	1010	0.6	0.6	-3.9
1.22	720	39	0	1010	1.81	0.6	-3.9
2.43	760	39	0	1010	3.03	0.6	-3.9
3.63	760	39	0	1010	4.24	0.6	-3.9
4.84	1680	38	47.8	1070	5.45	0.6	-3.9
6.05	2320	36	61.2	1250	6.66	0.6	-3.9
7.27	3720	33	0	1310	7.87	0.6	-3.9
8.48	2160	33	95.3	1030	9.07	0.6	-3.9
9.67	2080	33	95.3	1330	10.31	0.6	-3.9
11.28	2800	32	95.3	2180	11.88	0.6	-3.9
12.52	3680	32	83.1	2540	13.49	0.6	-3.9
14.1	4680	32	85.5	2380	14.69	0.6	-3.9
15.31	5400	33	92.5	2270	15.93	0.6	-3.9
16.92	6120	35	95.3	2170	17.63	0.6	-3.9
18.24	5680	35	0	1310	19.23	0.6	-3.9

Group A:	'003				Group B:	'020			
	RPM	Mass Flow	Load	Ign. Timing		Degrees	Degrees	Degrees	Degrees
TSTAMP	RPM	g/s	%	°	TSTAMP	CF	CF	CF	CF
0	720	2.97	1.6	1.5 B	0.61	0	0	0	0
1.21	720	3.03	1.6	3.0 B	1.8	0	0	0	0
2.44	1280	12.42	9	24.0 B	3.45	0	0	0	0
4.46	1880	33.61	81.6	15.0 B	5.05	0	0	0	0
5.67	3000	3.47	3.5	18.0 B	6.64	0	0	0	0
7.25	1760	34.89	81.2	9.8 B	7.86	0	0	0	0
8.48	2200	56.67	93.3	9.0 B	9.07	0	0	0	0
9.69	2760	104.89	100	1.5 B	10.68	0	0	0	0
11.3	3800	156.86	100	7.5 B	11.89	3	3	0	0
12.5	4560	173.56	100	8.3 B	13.1	3	3	3	3
13.7	5280	193.64	100	9.8 B	14.34	5.3	6	6	6
15.3	6000	203.31	100	7.5 B	15.92	4.5	5.3	5.3	5.3
16.93	6600	186.64	100	12.0 B	17.51	0	0	0	0

Group A:	'115				Group B:	'031	
	RPM	Load	Pressure	Pressure		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor
TSTAMP	RPM	%	mbar	mbar	TSTAMP	-	-
0	760	21.1	990	990	0.59	1	1
1.21	720	21.1	990	990	1.81	1	1
2.42	720	21.8	990	990	3.02	0.945	1
3.64	1320	48.1	990	1000	4.63	0.93	1
5.25	1520	58.6	990	1050	5.84	0.984	1
6.42	2360	52.6	990	1100	7.04	0.984	1
7.66	2920	44.4	990	1070	8.25	0.992	1
8.86	1280	19.5	990	1020	9.44	0.875	1
10.07	1560	89.5	1740	1140	10.66	0.961	0.953
11.28	1920	107.5	2020	1320	12.27	0.961	0.953
12.9	2680	176.7	2240	2110	13.88	0.899	0.953
14.5	3800	191.7	2350	2350	15.52	0.875	0.875
16.11	4880	191.7	2290	2300	16.72	0.836	0.844
17.32	5600	191.7	2240	2170	17.93	0.821	0.844
18.53	6160	171.4	2140	2120	19.13	0.836	0.844
19.74	6480	162.4	990	2070	20.34	0.821	0.93

P.S i have checked and double checked everything, pipes etc.

So it probably the map?

 

[JamJay]

I don't have my pressure logs to hand to compare to yours but your boost looks a little high in places to me. I know one thing though, when I did my logs I had '0' correction factors which suggests that the timing is in keeping with the current modifications. I notice that you have some under heavy load (190 - 200g/s), nothing major but perhaps a timing adjustment is needed, then again that might not directly related to this problem.

I'd give Bill @ Badger 5 a PM or perhaps Jabba, they're very happy to offer advice and it'll be alot more technical than mine.

In my personal opinion, it looks like it's map related and Stage 2 is needed for the modifications you have but I can't be totally sure.

 

[rsmith]

I'll give bill a buzz now, i spoke with with him before and he's really knows his stuff and is super help full, but it is sounding like the map is the problem which i am not to happy about as this is the 2nd map i am on now.

 

[JamJay]

Keep us updated & good luck with your findings

 

[rsmith]

Well i just spoke with a guy called Michael in Jabba,(very nice chap) and described the characterics of my lastest map as he said it doesn't sound like its setup right at all, i described some of the problems, full boost on half throttle/boost spikes/poor mpg/High CF's, he basically told me with those spikes the only thing that has saved my rods from bending is the lower full octane level in ireland and the fact that the engine would (luckily) produce less torque even though the spike was so high.

I am bringing back to the place on wednesday to get it sorted and will be keeping a close eye on it, failing that i reckon i will have to bring it to the UK for the weekend to get someone to look at it.

 

[JamJay]

Well i just spoke with a guy called Michael in Jabba,(very nice chap) and described the characterics of my lastest map as he said it doesn't sound like its setup right at all, i described some of the problems, full boost on half throttle/boost spikes/poor mpg/High CF's, he basically told me with those spikes the only thing that has saved my rods from bending is the lower full octane level in ireland and the fact that the engine would (luckily) produce less torque even though the spike was so high.

I am bringing back to the place on wednesday to get it sorted and will be keeping a close eye on it, failing that i reckon i will have to bring it to the UK for the weekend to get someone to look at it.

Oh not good but at least you have some idea what the problem is now. I am guessing you'll either get a ferry across to Liverpool or somewhere in Wales, based on your location that is? If it's Liverpool then Awesome GTi are just a little way along in Manchester.

 

[Mr OCD]

17743 Engine torque monitoring control limit exceeded
- Check hose setup; MAF; Intake Air Temp sensor; Engine Coolant Temp Sensor

I had this code on my LC... was the ECT sensor in the end...

 

[DannyC87]

17743 Engine torque monitoring control limit exceeded
- Check hose setup; MAF; Intake Air Temp sensor; Engine Coolant Temp Sensor

I had this code on my LC... was the ECT sensor in the end...

Your CF's are probably related to the lower octane fuel as well; although below 6 is generally considered "ok".

 

[rsmith]

Your CF's are probably related to the lower octane fuel as well; although below 6 is generally considered "ok".

Yeah, 6 is ok, they were higher but my FMIC helped bring them down. The last RR i expierenced some engine knock.I gonna go back and not leave till i am happy with it.

 

[james walker]

those engine temps look a little high for fmic mate, were they done from cold or after useage... if after a run or so then cfs will be seen due to higher inlet temps.

lower octane will cause knock as said, maybe try put some millers through it for a couple of tanks and relog to see if it is the fuel causing the cfs, although for 95 ron they dont seem too high

 

[rsmith]

those engine temps look a little high for fmic mate, were they done from cold or after useage... if after a run or so then cfs will be seen due to higher inlet temps.

lower octane will cause knock as said, maybe try put some millers through it for a couple of tanks and relog to see if it is the fuel causing the cfs, although for 95 ron they dont seem too high

They were done after 4 other runs, outside temp was 18c and the engine oil temp was running at 90c when i did them, should they be lower? or should they have come down more when the air flow passing over the FMIC increases?

Also the millers does work a treat but it starts to get expensive if i am running this stuff the whole time.I know i will get CF with the fuel over here but the map is still not the best, i need to sort our the other above mentioned,"features"

 

[james walker]

probably not after 4 runs mate, i did logs after a 100 mile drive and saw similar inlet temps

fuelling looks ok under load, but you will get some cfs with the inlet temps at that mate, as said 6 is ok

what does it feel like?

 

[rsmith]

probably not after 4 runs mate, i did logs after a 100 mile drive and saw similar inlet temps

fuelling looks ok under load, but you will get some cfs with the inlet temps at that mate, as said 6 is ok

what does it feel like?

It feels way to torque'y, huge surge and then tails way down, which leads to early lose of traction, i don't floor it much anymore as the spike has me worried, also half throttle seems to give the same boost and full throttle.

What FMIC are you running?

 

[rsmith]

Well i decided to bring her back in today to sort out my boost issues.
I have a new map on my boost now peaks at 1.5 bar, which is a bit more normal and the excessive torque error does not appear any more.

Logs below, my CF's have been eliminated, the car fell so much slower, sort of dead really.
Also i notice that on my power runs, the boost build up to 1.5bar then immediately drops to 1.1bar then builds up to 1.3/4 and then talls off, you can see it in the log of 115 below and can fell it while driving, i get a surge then it lets off then i get another surge of power(all with my foot planted)

P.S these are 3rd gear runs.I cannot say if i am impressed, shorta seems like all my money on FMIC, DP's, sports cats etc... have got me zero gain, could have achieved this power with a standard stage 1 remap minus the few grand of hardware.

Please feel free to comment.

22:34				
				
Group A:	'115			
	RPM	Load	Pressure	Pressure
TSTAMP	RPM	%	mbar	mbar
24.15	2040	108.3	1990	1350
24.55	2160	119.5	2160	1470
24.94	2360	129.3	2180	1590
25.34	2520	142.9	2190	1770
25.76	2720	166.9	2200	2070
26.16	2960	191.7	2200	2470
26.55	3200	188.7	2240	2160
26.95	3440	188.7	2300	2240
27.37	3720	191.7	2350	2360
27.76	3960	191.7	2400	2340
28.16	4200	191.7	2400	2380
28.55	4440	191.7	2410	2370
28.98	4720	191.7	2390	2390
29.38	4960	191.7	2370	2360
29.77	5200	191.7	2350	2300
30.18	5440	181.2	2340	2270
30.57	5680	182	2340	2200
30.98	5840	173.7	2310	2190
31.39	6040	161.7	2260	2180
31.8	6240	174.4	2250	2110
32.2	6400	164.7	2240	2100
32.59	6520	165.4	2240	2050
33	6280	12.8	1020	1820
33.41	5720	14.3	1020	1230

Group A:	'115			
	RPM	Load	Pressure	Pressure
TSTAMP	RPM	%	mbar	mbar
77.25	2160	120.3	2120	1470
77.67	2280	130.1	2180	1620
78.04	2480	145.1	2200	1820
78.47	2720	171.4	2210	2130
78.86	2960	191.7	2200	2530
79.27	3200	188	2240	2180
79.65	3440	185.7	2280	2190
80.08	3680	191.7	2350	2350
80.47	3960	191.7	2400	2360
80.86	4200	191.7	2410	2390
81.27	4480	191.7	2410	2380
81.67	4720	191.7	2390	2390
82.08	5000	191.7	2370	2360
82.5	5240	190.2	2350	2320
82.88	5480	182	2360	2320
83.28	5680	188	2340	2220
83.7	5880	172.2	2300	2190
84.1	6080	174.4	2260	2150
84.5	6240	164.7	2240	2140
84.89	6440	171.4	2230	2080
85.29	6560	170.7	2230	2050
85.7	6400	12.8	1010	1790
86.11	5840	14.3	1010	1250

Group A:	'115				Group B:	'032	
	RPM	Load	Pressure	Pressure		Lambda	Lambda
TSTAMP	RPM	%	mbar	mbar	TSTAMP	%	%
0	720	21.8	1010	1010	0.63	0.8	-3.1
1.64	760	21.1	1010	1010	2.3	0.8	-3.1
2.95	720	22.6	1010	1010	3.62	0.8	-3.1
4.24	760	21.1	1010	1010	4.83	0.8	-3.1
5.48	720	21.8	1010	1010	6.44	0.8	-3.1
7.04	720	21.8	1010	1010	7.66	0.8	-3.1
8.27	760	22.6	1010	1010	8.86	0.8	-3.1
9.46	800	33.1	1010	1010	10.08	0.8	-3.1
10.67	1360	29.3	1010	1010	11.27	0.8	-3.1
11.9	1240	32.3	1010	1020	12.48	0.8	-3.1
13.11	1080	39.1	1010	1020	14.08	0.8	-3.1
14.71	1560	60.2	1010	1030	15.28	0.8	-3.1
15.92	2360	59.4	1010	1100	16.52	0.8	-3.1
17.13	3120	54.1	1010	1150	17.73	0.8	-3.1
18.32	2280	16.5	1010	1050	18.96	0.8	-3.1
19.94	1800	100	1790	1250	20.54	0.8	-3.1
21.13	2200	127.8	2140	1540	21.74	0.8	-3.1
22.34	2800	189.5	2180	2340	22.94	0.8	-3.1
23.56	3520	191.7	2270	2280	24.15	0.8	-3.1
24.76	4240	191.7	2380	2360	25.36	0.8	-3.1
25.98	5040	191.7	2340	2360	26.58	0.8	-3.1
27.19	5720	189.5	2310	2170	28.18	0.8	-3.1
28.8	6440	166.2	2230	2100	29.39	0.8	-3.1
29.98	5720	14.3	1010	1230	30.6	0.8	-3.1

Group A:	'003				Group B:	'020			
	RPM	Mass Flow	Load	Ign. Timing		Degrees	Degrees	Degrees	Degrees
TSTAMP	RPM	g/s	%	°	TSTAMP	CF	CF	CF	CF
0	760	3.06	2	3.8 B	0.99	0	0	0	0
1.6	760	3.14	1.6	0.8 B	2.19	0	0	0	0
2.82	760	7.33	5.9	11.3 B	3.79	0	0	0	0
4.42	1240	8.97	6.7	26.3 B	5.01	0	0	0	0
5.63	1760	10.11	7.5	18.8 B	6.25	0	0	0	0
6.83	1160	6.03	4.3	26.3 B	7.83	0	0	0	0
8.44	1240	13.7	9.4	21.8 B	9.04	0	0	0	0
9.65	1320	5.28	3.5	11.3 B	10.65	0	0	0	0
11.25	1200	9.17	6.3	13.5 B	11.86	0	0	0	0
12.46	1200	9.5	6.3	24.0 B	13.07	0	0	0	0
13.67	1760	23.06	16.1	21.0 B	14.28	0	0	0	0
14.89	2680	33.17	15.7	30.0 B	15.51	0	0	0	0
16.49	3360	23.56	12.5	36.0 B	17.1	0	0	0	0
17.68	2160	24.75	23.1	33.0 B	18.28	0	0	0	0
18.9	1760	36.64	80.8	12.0 B	19.53	0	0	0	0
20.52	2400	72.31	97.6	9.0 B	21.1	0	0	0	0
21.74	3080	103.86	100	3.0 B	22.72	0	0	0	0
23.32	4080	160.36	100	7.5 B	23.92	0	0	0	0
24.54	4880	189.03	100	10.5 B	25.14	0	0	0	0
25.74	5560	198.64	100	13.5 B	26.34	0	0	0	0
26.96	6160	206.25	99.6	15.8 B	27.56	0	0	0	0
28.16	6400	50.53	6.3	9.0 B	28.76	0	0	0	0

Group A:	'118				Group B:	'031	
	RPM	Temperature	Load	Pressure		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor
TSTAMP	RPM	°C	%	mbar	TSTAMP	-	-
0	720	30	0	1010	0.62	0.969	1
1.22	720	30	0	1010	1.82	0.984	1
2.42	720	30	0	1010	3.03	0.992	1
3.64	720	30	0	1010	4.23	0.992	1
4.84	720	30	0	1010	5.49	0.938	1
6.46	1640	29	0	1040	7.06	0.992	1
7.65	1600	28	0	1070	8.26	0.961	1
8.89	2560	26	0	1160	9.87	0.938	1
10.49	1360	26	95.3	1090	11.08	1.008	1
11.68	1680	24	95.3	1230	12.29	0.961	0.953
12.9	2120	23	95.3	1460	13.48	0.969	0.953
14.09	2720	23	88.2	2150	14.69	0.93	0.953
15.33	3480	21	80.8	2210	16.32	0.922	0.906
16.93	4520	22	86.3	2410	17.53	0.844	0.852
18.53	5560	24	95.3	2230	19.13	0.844	0.844
19.75	6160	25	81.6	2170	20.75	0.899	0.945
21.36	4040	25	0	1070	22.36	1.991	1.047

I am not sure where to go from here.

 

[JamJay]

What brand of map are you using?

 

[DannyC87]

After the tweaks you are getting a higher air flow at the top end, which would suggest more power. It is the torque that you have lost; but this is good for the life of your rods and taming wheel spin I'd say

 

[rsmith]

What brand of map are you using?

They are a company called Chipped Ireland, they are well know over here and the guy that does the tuning also tunes for Team CTR Porsche 996 RSR + 996 GT3 Cup car BRITCAR and GT CUP .

They do have the expierence, its just i am totally disheartened, its feels slower than it does when i first got it mapped with only a new K&N filter and TIP.Since then i have added a lot of(not cheap BTW) hardware and its seems to have made zero difference, if anything its slower.